Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: queston about parallel routes to Hagerstown Turnpike north from Sharpsburg

Expand Messages
  • eighth_conn_inf
    I should have looked at Carman more closely; he says about the Antietam battlefield The turnpike, country roads, and farm lanes gave ready access to all parts
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 17, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I should have looked at Carman more closely; he says about the Antietam battlefield "The turnpike, country roads, and farm lanes gave ready access to all parts of the field upon which, save along the banks of the Antietam itself, there were no obstacles to the movement of troops and but few to the passage of artillery." Later he mentions "farm lanes" in several places. He often names the lanes for the farms to which they lead likely echoing usage at the time. In another place Carman mentions a "stock lane" which implies only a cattle path rather than a "regular" farm lane.

      Lanes were important as they usually had some type of fencing on either side (as did pikes and other roads) as they traversed various farmers' fields so provided some cover as well as barriers for troop movements. Looks like determining which lanes couriers/cavalry used will be interesting lacking primary sources.

      Larry

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gerry,
      >
      > Looking at the CC maps closely, the spaces between the various types of fences around fields frequently have a regular dotted line shown. The map legend doesn't list this symbol so I wonder if it indicates a farm path. This makes sense as farmers must get their teams to fields to plow and wagons to harvest crops. So if many/most of these are wide enough to let a wagon pass, they are also passable to couriers, etc.?
      >
      > Following the Smoketown Rd from the Dunkard Church towards Smoketown shows that this dotted line splits as it enters the East Woods and connects the parts of the road. I don't recall reading comments about this link--anyone have any cites referencing this connection or helpful statements about farm lanes? Any thoughts? Or am I just coming late to this realization about lanes = regular dotted lines?
      >
      >
      > Larry
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Larry, Per all your emails about the lanes, road, etc., I think you might be on to something. Would be interesting to see what Tom Clemens has to say
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 17, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Larry,

        Per all your emails about the lanes, road, etc., I think you
        might be on to something. Would be interesting to see what Tom
        Clemens has to say about that. Or possibly Stephen Recker.

        I do know there was a small settlement nestled near the bank of
        the Potomac called New Industry which should be on the CC maps
        and also should indicate the presence of regular roads as opposed
        to farm lanes, etc.

        As to farm lanes, one highly prominent one is the one which went
        from the Hagerstown Pike to the Piper House and then continued
        straight on until it met up with the south - southwestward jog of
        the Hog Trough Road (Sunken Road) shortly before both avenues met
        the Boonsborough Turnpike.

        Returning to my original question, and as per what Joe Harsh says
        in TATF, Lee must have seen something on his large scale maps of
        Washington County etc to suggest the possibility of some sort of
        road net between the Potomac River and the Hagerstown
        Turnpike...which would explain why he orders Stuart to conduct a
        fairly substantial reconnaisance to determine if it is indeed
        true.

        I am beginning to suspect that, if there was some means of the
        army taking to some sort of road net from Sharpsburg up towards
        Hagerstown, at some point it would have met up with the road net
        leading to Williamsport. From there the army could have turned
        and used better roads.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:22 AM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: queston about parallel routes to
        Hagerstown Turnpike north from Sharpsburg


        I should have looked at Carman more closely; he says about the
        Antietam battlefield "The turnpike, country roads, and farm lanes
        gave ready access to all parts of the field upon which, save
        along the banks of the Antietam itself, there were no obstacles
        to the movement of troops and but few to the passage of
        artillery." Later he mentions "farm lanes" in several places. He
        often names the lanes for the farms to which they lead likely
        echoing usage at the time. In another place Carman mentions a
        "stock lane" which implies only a cattle path rather than a
        "regular" farm lane.

        Lanes were important as they usually had some type of fencing on
        either side (as did pikes and other roads) as they traversed
        various farmers' fields so provided some cover as well as
        barriers for troop movements. Looks like determining which lanes
        couriers/cavalry used will be interesting lacking primary
        sources.

        Larry

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
        <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
        >
        > Gerry,
        >
        > Looking at the CC maps closely, the spaces between the various
        > types of fences around fields frequently have a regular dotted
        > line shown. The map legend doesn't list this symbol so I wonder
        > if it indicates a farm path. This makes sense as farmers must
        > get their teams to fields to plow and wagons to harvest crops.
        > So if many/most of these are wide enough to let a wagon pass,
        > they are also passable to couriers, etc.?
        >
        > Following the Smoketown Rd from the Dunkard Church towards
        > Smoketown shows that this dotted line splits as it enters the
        > East Woods and connects the parts of the road. I don't recall
        > reading comments about this link--anyone have any cites
        > referencing this connection or helpful statements about farm
        > lanes? Any thoughts? Or am I just coming late to this
        > realization about lanes = regular dotted lines?
        >
        >
        > Larry
      • cowie_steve
        Gerry, IIRC, Harsh describes a northbound river road leading to New Industry that is cloaked from Federal view by Nicodemus Heights and a series of small,
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 17, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Gerry,

          IIRC, Harsh describes a northbound "river road" leading to New Industry that is cloaked from Federal view by Nicodemus Heights and a series of small, disconnected ridges. This was the same route taken by Stuart on the afternoon of the 17th when Pelham "stirred up" the Federal right artillery.

          Steve



          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
          >
          > Larry,
          >
          > I know that Lee would not have wanted to take Smoketown
          > Road...too close to Antietam Creek area. I was more interested in
          > what road would have been between the banks of the Potomac River
          > and the Hagerstown Pike. I am sure there was some sort of road
          > net that would eventually have enabled the ANVa to get up to
          > Hagerstown...or at least Williamsport.
          >
          > As to your other, send Brian our moderator a private email and
          > see if he would be willing to accept the document. If you would
          > like to send it entire to me offline, please feel free to do so.
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:45 PM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: queston about parallel routes to
          > Hagerstown Turnpike north from Sharpsburg
          >
          >
          > Gerry,
          >
          > Harsh's main source for this story appears to be W.W. Blackford,
          > "War Years with Jeb Stuart, 148-9. Von Borcke isn't too much help
          > and neither is Carman.
          >
          > Of course the most likely road is the Hagerstown Pike as the
          > Landing Road I think is too far west. I also don't think the
          > Smoketown Rd is a good candidate since later in the day on the
          > 16th the Unionists were there at least on much of it towards the
          > north. I just can't see other good routes north.
          >
          > Another interesting question is where did the Blackford incident
          > take place? My estimation is that it does so later in the
          > afternoon with pickets of Doubleday's division near the
          > Hagerstown Pike. I'd like to get your comments on that if you
          > wouldn't mind reading something I wrote that is probably too long
          > for this post. I can PM you with it if you wish or post it here.
          >
          > Larry
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > All,
          > >
          > > Harsh mentions in his chapter on September 16 that Stuart was
          > > given a mission during the mid to late morning of that day by
          > > Lee
          > > to ascertain parallel routes of advance from Sharpsburg up
          > > towards Hagerstown; routes that would help the ANVa if it was
          > > able to escape the box McClellan was forming around it to the
          > > west. We all know that Hooker's advance pretty much shut that
          > > door.
          > >
          > > However, IIRC Harsh does not specify which routes Stuart found
          > > that possibly could have aided the ANVa in marching north
          > > towards
          > > Hagerstown from Sharpsburg and hopefully resuming the campaign
          > > and then being able to offer battle to the AoP on conditions
          > > favorable to the ANVa rather than the AoP.
          > >
          > > Does any one know which routes Stuart discovered, the names of
          > > the roads, etc that he would have reported via courier from his
          > > HQ at the Dunkard Church back to Lee at the Grove House in
          > > town?
          > >
          > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          > >
          > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
          > > from
          > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > >
          >
        • Thomas Clemens
          I think what Gerry is talking about is the road now known as Mondell road and then Taylor s Landing Road which led to the aforementioned site on the Potomac.
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 17, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I think what Gerry is talking about is the road now known as Mondell road and then Taylor's Landing Road which led to the aforementioned site on the Potomac. From there a road led along the banks for some distance and roads branching off that led back to the Pike and others to the Boonsboro - Williamsport road. It shows on local maps and the names are not mentioned, thus I am using modern names. It was Harsh's opinion that the "Cox Farm expedition" was an attempt to see if that road was usable to evacuate the army northward toward Hagerstown.


            Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College




            >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 3/17/2009 8:22 AM >>>

            I should have looked at Carman more closely; he says about the Antietam battlefield "The turnpike, country roads, and farm lanes gave ready access to all parts of the field upon which, save along the banks of the Antietam itself, there were no obstacles to the movement of troops and but few to the passage of artillery." Later he mentions "farm lanes" in several places. He often names the lanes for the farms to which they lead likely echoing usage at the time. In another place Carman mentions a "stock lane" which implies only a cattle path rather than a "regular" farm lane.

            Lanes were important as they usually had some type of fencing on either side (as did pikes and other roads) as they traversed various farmers' fields so provided some cover as well as barriers for troop movements. Looks like determining which lanes couriers/cavalry used will be interesting lacking primary sources.

            Larry

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
            >
            > Gerry,
            >
            > Looking at the CC maps closely, the spaces between the various types of fences around fields frequently have a regular dotted line shown. The map legend doesn't list this symbol so I wonder if it indicates a farm path. This makes sense as farmers must get their teams to fields to plow and wagons to harvest crops. So if many/most of these are wide enough to let a wagon pass, they are also passable to couriers, etc.?
            >
            > Following the Smoketown Rd from the Dunkard Church towards Smoketown shows that this dotted line splits as it enters the East Woods and connects the parts of the road. I don't recall reading comments about this link--anyone have any cites referencing this connection or helpful statements about farm lanes? Any thoughts? Or am I just coming late to this realization about lanes = regular dotted lines?
            >
            >
            > Larry




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.