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Re: [TalkAntietam] re Rodes brigade at Sunken Road

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  • Dean Essig
    Based on the Battlefield America map, I think so. Also Carmen makes a point that the attack was into the 14 CT and that Tompkins Battery (on the Visitor
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 2, 2009
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      Based on the Battlefield America map, I think so. Also Carmen makes a
      point that the attack was into the 14 CT and that Tompkins' Battery
      (on the Visitor Center hill) was in a great position to rake it.


      On Mar 2, 2009, at 9:55 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

      > Dean,
      >
      > This does! Thanks! I think the ridgeline is probably the one
      > where the CT regiment marker is?
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Dean, Thank you again. So why did Longstreet order the attack by Rodes? Was this before the unfortunate incident with Col Lightfoot of the Sixth Alabama?
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 2, 2009
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        Dear Dean,

        Thank you again. So why did Longstreet order the attack by Rodes?
        Was this before the unfortunate incident with Col Lightfoot of
        the Sixth Alabama? or after it? Also, was this before the Irish
        Brigade attack?

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:01 AM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Rodes brigade at Sunken Road


        > Based on the Battlefield America map, I think so. Also Carmen
        > makes a
        > point that the attack was into the 14 CT and that Tompkins'
        > Battery
        > (on the Visitor Center hill) was in a great position to rake
        > it.
        >
        >
        > On Mar 2, 2009, at 9:55 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
        >
        >> Dean,
        >>
        >> This does! Thanks! I think the ridgeline is probably the one
        >> where the CT regiment marker is?
        >
      • Dean Essig
        ... I can find nothing that explains Longstreet s thinking here (neither his report or memoirs mention the event at all). The presumption would be that the
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 2, 2009
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          On Mar 2, 2009, at 11:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

          > So why did Longstreet order the attack by Rodes?

          I can find nothing that explains Longstreet's thinking here (neither
          his report or memoirs mention the event at all). The presumption
          would be that the ridge the Union was fighting from looks to be
          better for the defense that the rather flat low area of the Sunken
          Road on that left flank.

          > Was this before the unfortunate incident with Col Lightfoot of
          > the Sixth Alabama? or after it?

          All of this must have happened before that.

          > Also, was this before the Irish
          > Brigade attack?

          Based on the maps in Unfurl those Colors, by the time the Irish had
          formed and were beginning their attack, the 14 CT had backed off and
          disengaged (10:30 am), my my guess is this occured before the Irish
          Brigade was involved.

          Also, that book does mention the assorted attacks out of the Sunken
          Road, but only in general terms and does not go into detail about the
          Confederates involved.

          Dean

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • G E Mayers
          Dean; You have given me much to think about here and this is a great help for my book manuscript..... I checked Harsh this evening and he says nothing about
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 2, 2009
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            Dean;

            You have given me much to think about here and this is a great
            help for my book manuscript.....

            I checked Harsh this evening and he says nothing about Longstreet
            exercising any major tactical control but he does say something
            interesting in TATF about Lee basically leaving the northern part
            of the field to Jackson, Longstreet and D H Hill from about noon
            or onwards and concentrating on the problems manifesting
            themselves down on the Lower Bridge (the Confederate right).

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:23 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Rodes brigade at Sunken Road


            >
            > On Mar 2, 2009, at 11:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
            >
            >> So why did Longstreet order the attack by Rodes?
            >
            > I can find nothing that explains Longstreet's thinking here
            > (neither
            > his report or memoirs mention the event at all). The
            > presumption
            > would be that the ridge the Union was fighting from looks to be
            > better for the defense that the rather flat low area of the
            > Sunken
            > Road on that left flank.
            >
            >> Was this before the unfortunate incident with Col Lightfoot of
            >> the Sixth Alabama? or after it?
            >
            > All of this must have happened before that.
            >
            >> Also, was this before the Irish
            >> Brigade attack?
            >
            > Based on the maps in Unfurl those Colors, by the time the Irish
            > had
            > formed and were beginning their attack, the 14 CT had backed
            > off and
            > disengaged (10:30 am), my my guess is this occured before the
            > Irish
            > Brigade was involved.
            >
            > Also, that book does mention the assorted attacks out of the
            > Sunken
            > Road, but only in general terms and does not go into detail
            > about the
            > Confederates involved.
            >
            > Dean
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
          • G E Mayers
            Dean, Again, this is great information! So Longstreet s ordering of Rodes to advance his brigade is an attempt to turn the right flank of French s division?
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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              Dean,

              Again, this is great information! So Longstreet's ordering of
              Rodes to advance his brigade is an attempt to turn the right
              flank of French's division?

              Also, does "Unfurl those Colors" give any indication of when
              Gordon was wounded for the final time? When you read Gordon's
              memoir, he does not seem to indicate about how long after the
              fighting began in the sunken road his wounds occurred.
              Interestingly enough, though, he does state that Tew received his
              mortal wounding fairly early on...which would seem to
              indicate....if true... that G B Anderson also receives his mortal
              wound in the ankle very early in the action...perhaps right after
              returning from going to D H Hill to ask for reinforcements,
              spurring the latter office to go to Lee and Longstreet and
              thereby sparking the famous horse incident?

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 2:23 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Rodes brigade at Sunken Road


              <snip>
            • Dean Essig
              ... I don t think the intent was that grand. Rather a tactical adjustment of the firing line in that area, pushing forward so the Confederates control the
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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                On Mar 3, 2009, at 7:43 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                > Again, this is great information! So Longstreet's ordering of
                > Rodes to advance his brigade is an attempt to turn the right
                > flank of French's division?

                I don't think the intent was that grand.

                Rather a tactical adjustment of the firing line in that area, pushing
                forward so the Confederates control the local terrain feature rather
                than allowing the Federals to use it as a firing berm.

                >
                > Also, does "Unfurl those Colors" give any indication of when
                > Gordon was wounded for the final time? When you read Gordon's
                > memoir, he does not seem to indicate about how long after the
                > fighting began in the sunken road his wounds occurred.

                Neither. The timing is my inference from the fact that Rodes went
                personally to the 6 Ala to order them to attack and Gordon makes no
                mention of him, the orders, or the belated attack in his account. He
                does, however, describe the fighting (from the road) and goes into
                detail about his wounding and being carried off on a stretcher. I
                think he would have noted the attack if he was still there when that
                happened.

                Furthermore, it makes good sense that the 6 Ala would become less
                responsive in the time after the wounding (especially if it had just
                happened) and that fits into the narrative of events very well. But
                is conjecture.

                > Interestingly enough, though, he does state that Tew received his
                > mortal wounding fairly early on...which would seem to
                > indicate....if true... that G B Anderson also receives his mortal
                > wound in the ankle very early in the action...perhaps right after
                > returning from going to D H Hill to ask for reinforcements,
                > spurring the latter office to go to Lee and Longstreet and
                > thereby sparking the famous horse incident?

                I'm thinking the "horse" thing happened earlier, as part of the tour
                Lee and Longstreet made of the road position right before the attack
                hit (the one that ended with Gordon announcing he would hold the
                position until the sun went down). I'd wager it happened just before
                the two of them made it to the division, Hill would have ridden back
                to the Hagerstown Pike to greet the approaching army command just
                south of the position... and all of that seemed reasonably relaxed,
                which would not be the case if Hill rode back to Lee frantically
                looking for reinforcements as would be the case after the attack began.

                Dean



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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