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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hamburg Passes?

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  • Stephen Recker
    I don t really have time to get my head around all of this right now, but will give you a taste. Page 135: A map, dated April 5, 1791, of the Road from
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 2 3:54 AM
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      I don't really have time to get my head around all of this right now,
      but will give you a taste.

      Page 135: "A map, dated April 5, 1791, of the Road from Elizabethtown
      to Newcomber's Mill and Frederick County Line is in the Maryland
      Archives. This map identifies Orr's gap as Braddock's Gap. Conrad
      Hogmire, Daniel Winder and an unknown individual signed the map. It
      show's John Orr's house about one mile northwest of the gap in South
      Mountain. Stull's appears near a bridge, about one mile from the market
      House in Elizabethtown [Hagerstown]. The map includes the courses of
      the route similar to a land tract record. However, these measurements
      are difficult to read.

      The 1794 Dennis Griffith Map of Maryland shows a road from Boonsboro
      towards South Mountain and the are of Turner's Gap. The map shows a
      location entitled Orrs just northwest of the gap in the mountain. It
      seems probable a traveler from Frederick Town to Conococheague
      [Williamsport] passing through Orr's Gap would pass through the area
      that became Hagerstown.

      The Varle Map of 1808 show's Braddock's Gap on the old Hagerstown Road
      from Frederick Town. This gap is also known as Orr's Gap."

      These are snippets.

      What I learned from this book is that, heading west on Alt40, just
      before South Mountain, the Civil War roads turn left and right at
      Bolivar Road and Mt. Tabor Road, respectively. The earlier roads left
      alt40 about a mile east of that spot, at Marker Road (the original
      route to Fox's gap) and the Old Hagerstown Road (to the right). Pull up
      Google and you can see all of these roads.

      Stephen






      On Sunday, March 1, 2009, at 09:41 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

      > Stephen,
      >
      > I know you don't want to keep Tom and I in suspense so is Hamburg
      > Pass only at the town of Hamburg and Orr's Gap the one 3 miles north
      > of Turner's Gap in South Mountain?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Stephen, Thank you for your efforts. From what you found, looks like the gap 3 miles north of Turner s Gap was called Orr s Gap which became Hamburg Pass
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 2 5:05 AM
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        Stephen,

        Thank you for your efforts. From what you found, looks like the gap 3
        miles north of Turner's Gap was called Orr's Gap which became Hamburg
        Pass thanks to Ripley et all during the CW. "Braddock's Gap" may
        have, over the years, referred to more than one gap?

        Larry


        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I don't really have time to get my head around all of this right
        now,
        > but will give you a taste.
        >
        > Page 135: "A map, dated April 5, 1791, of the Road from
        Elizabethtown
        > to Newcomber's Mill and Frederick County Line is in the Maryland
        > Archives. This map identifies Orr's gap as Braddock's Gap. Conrad
        > Hogmire, Daniel Winder and an unknown individual signed the map. It
        > show's John Orr's house about one mile northwest of the gap in
        South
        > Mountain. Stull's appears near a bridge, about one mile from the
        market
        > House in Elizabethtown [Hagerstown]. The map includes the courses
        of
        > the route similar to a land tract record. However, these
        measurements
        > are difficult to read.
        >
        > The 1794 Dennis Griffith Map of Maryland shows a road from
        Boonsboro
        > towards South Mountain and the are of Turner's Gap. The map shows a
        > location entitled Orrs just northwest of the gap in the mountain.
        It
        > seems probable a traveler from Frederick Town to Conococheague
        > [Williamsport] passing through Orr's Gap would pass through the
        area
        > that became Hagerstown.
        >
        > The Varle Map of 1808 show's Braddock's Gap on the old Hagerstown
        Road
        > from Frederick Town. This gap is also known as Orr's Gap."
        >
        > These are snippets.
        >
        > What I learned from this book is that, heading west on Alt40, just
        > before South Mountain, the Civil War roads turn left and right at
        > Bolivar Road and Mt. Tabor Road, respectively. The earlier roads
        left
        > alt40 about a mile east of that spot, at Marker Road (the original
        > route to Fox's gap) and the Old Hagerstown Road (to the right).
        Pull up
        > Google and you can see all of these roads.
        >
        > Stephen
        >
      • eighth_conn_inf
        Brian, Thank you for your efforts. We have no snow here in Morgan County WV so far today (Monday 3/2) but it is very cold--16 this morning and windy--forecast
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 2 5:54 AM
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          Brian,

          Thank you for your efforts. We have no snow here in Morgan County WV
          so far today (Monday 3/2) but it is very cold--16 this morning and
          windy--forecast for later in the week is much better.

          That is likely the cross road. I have a copy of a mid 1800's map
          showing the village and that there was a road along the top of the
          Catoctin Mountains probably now the Gambrill Park Rd. The map does
          not show a road or roads west towards Orr's Gap (Ripley's Hamburg
          Pass). Then, as now, looks like a traveller going west would take
          roundabout roads to Myersville then the road to Hagerstown thru Orr's
          Gap where today I70 and Rt 40 pass. All this makes it difficult to
          understand how Ripley named the gap in S. Mountain "Hamburg Pass."

          Another reference I found by Louis O'Donoghue says that "Hamburg is a
          village, located 2.5 miles northeast of Harmony on top of Catoctin
          Mountain at an elevation of 1610' possibly named for the Hamburg
          family who lived in Frederick County about 1800. It was considered a
          ghost town as it was never platted; foundations can still be found."
          If you find the ruins of the Hamburg fire-tower perhaps the
          foundations of some homes are nearby.

          Larry

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Richardson"
          <BrianSRich@...> wrote:
          >
          > Larry -
          >
          > There is a Hamburg Road that intersects Gambrill Park Road about 4
          > miles north of Route 40 in the Catoctin range. Is that the
          crossroads
          > that Paula Strain refers to? Hamburg Road runs generally southeast
          > from there and joins Yellow Springs Road northwest of Frederick.
          > There isn't a direct route from the Hamburg Road/Gambrill Park Road
          > intersection to Hamburg Pass on South Mountain today. Weather
          > permitting I'll go poke around there in the next day or two and let
          > you know if I find anything.
          >
          > Best regards,
          >
          > Brian Richardson
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
          > <eighth_conn_inf@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Tom,
          > >
          > > Thank you for your insight. I know that since you worked with Dr.
          > > Harsh that you likely knew about this relatively minor point.
          > >
          > > Perhaps someone at the Frederick County HS or Washington County
          > might
          > > be able to point me to something.
          > >
          > > In Paula M. Strain's "The Blue Hills of Maryland" she mentions
          > > Hamburg as "a ghost town on top of Catoctin Mountain near
          Gambrill
          > > State Park. It was never plotted officially but, at late as 1892,
          > > several houses stood near the crossroads. Even earlier, there was
          a
          > > tavern there. Now only the ruins of the Hamburg fire-tower mark
          the
          > > village," 272.
          > >
          > > She also writes about the Hagerstown-Frederick trolley which ran
          > thru
          > > Myersville then thru S. Mountain at "Orr's Gap" then to what was
          > then
          > > called Smoketown (now Mt. Lena), 204.
          > >
          > > She discusses Orr's Gap at some length (201-203) positing that
          this
          > > gap, three miles north Turner's Gap, through a sag between
          > Bartman's
          > > Hill and Pine Knob, has been known by three names in the last 250
          > > years: Orr's Gap, Hamburg Pass, and Trolley-Line Gap. She
          believes
          > > that the Orr's Gap name faded by the time of the CW so the pass
          was
          > > unnamed (by D. H. Hill) or incorrectly named "Hamburg Pass" by
          > > Ripley. But she implies that that name stuck since no one
          disputed
          > > it. "Ripley's assignment of the name of a village ten miles east
          on
          > > Catoctin Mountain to little Orr's Gap, has led a number of Civil
          > War
          > > historians unfamiliar with Maryland to repeat his mistake, making
          > > Hamburg Pass the second name Orr's has been called," 201-202.
          > >
          > > She could not find any reason for the name "Orr" in land records,
          > > etc., so she says that is likely why the name faded. As we know,
          > the
          > > names of places by CW troops unfamiliar with the area can be
          > > misleading and almost certainly by spelling. Perhaps here, Ripley
          > > talked to a civilian or a soldier familiar with the area and was
          > told
          > > that the road thru the gap leads to Hamburg so for
          identification,
          > he
          > > simply called it Hamburg Pass.
          > >
          > > Based on her research, I will call it "Orr's Gap" with, of
          course,
          > a
          > > footnote re Harsh, Ripley, Carman, and that the road thru there
          > also
          > > led to Hamburg, among other places east.
          > >
          > > Larry
          > >
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