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Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?

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  • Stephen Recker
    That s what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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      That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.

      Stephen

      On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:

      > Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the
      > area
      > after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from
      > a hot
      > air baloon.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dave
      Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book addressing the old army mule is
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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        Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
        doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book addressing
        the old army mule is *
        <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
        and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The bell
        sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing a
        bell).

        A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so applicable
        to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons was
        an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
        fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key to the
        logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people thought
        about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.

        I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their back
        hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.

        Dave McGowan

        eighth_conn_inf wrote:
        >
        > Dave,
        >
        > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
        > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
        > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
        > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a couple
        > of times and comments on training them, from
        >
        > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
        > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
        > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
        >
        >
        > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule" could
        > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
        >
        > If you find more, please let us know.
        >
        > Larry F.
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
        > mule?
        > > Same as a "green mule"?
        > >
        > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
        > writes
        > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
        > >
        > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
        > > guess). Thanks for any help.
        > >
        > > Dave McGowan
        > >
        >
        >
      • G E Mayers
        Where is Tom C this semester anyway? Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth,
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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          Where is Tom C this semester anyway?

          Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?


          > That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.
          >
          > Stephen
          >
          > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:
          >
          >> Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some
          >> in the
          >> area
          >> after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron
          >> Works from
          >> a hot
          >> air baloon.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • Ian Workman
          As far as I know the photos that were taken from the hot air balloon were in the 1880 s. Does this sound right. I have also seen familiar ones from South
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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            As far as I know the photos that were taken from the hot air balloon were
            in the 1880's. Does this sound right. I have also seen familiar ones from
            South Mountain overlooking the valley. Does anyone know who was doing this?

            Ian

            On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:31 PM, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:

            > Where is Tom C this semester anyway?
            >
            > Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...<recker%40virtualgettysburg.com>
            > >
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
            > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:54 PM
            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?
            >
            > > That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.
            > >
            > > Stephen
            > >
            > > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:
            > >
            > >> Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some
            > >> in the
            > >> area
            > >> after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron
            > >> Works from
            > >> a hot
            > >> air baloon.
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Dave, I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on the CW worth
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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              Dave,

              I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one
              chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on
              the CW worth buying it?

              Thank you,
              Larry


              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
              > doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book
              addressing
              > the old army mule is *
              > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
              /0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
              > and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The
              bell
              > sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing
              a
              > bell).
              >
              > A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so
              applicable
              > to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons
              was
              > an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
              > fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key
              to the
              > logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people
              thought
              > about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.
              >
              > I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their
              back
              > hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.
              >
              > Dave McGowan
              >
              > eighth_conn_inf wrote:
              > >
              > > Dave,
              > >
              > > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
              > > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
              > > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
              > > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a
              couple
              > > of times and comments on training them, from
              > >
              > > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
              > > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
              > > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
              > >
              > >
              > > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule"
              could
              > > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
              > >
              > > If you find more, please let us know.
              > >
              > > Larry F.
              > >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
              > > mule?
              > > > Same as a "green mule"?
              > > >
              > > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
              > > writes
              > > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
              > > >
              > > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
              > > > guess). Thanks for any help.
              > > >
              > > > Dave McGowan
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Dave
              Larry, I don t have the book, and I don t think it s worth buying either. The problem is the pack mule coverage of recent vintage, which of course is easier
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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                Larry, I don't have the book, and I don't think it's worth buying
                either. The problem is the pack mule coverage of recent vintage, which
                of course is easier to research and is more time-relevant. My guess is
                that after going through all the material on mules in the OR, diaries,
                and other ACW sources, you would have to find a mule guy who actually
                breaks and trains mules to harness and get the real info from him. I
                doubt that mules have changed much over the years, but I bet most of
                that knowledge has been lost.

                And, does anyone know why the formatting in my posts are so screwed up?

                Dave

                eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                >
                > Dave,
                >
                > I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one
                > chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on
                > the CW worth buying it?
                >
                > Thank you,
                > Larry
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                > > doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book
                > addressing
                > > the old army mule is *
                > > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/->
                > /0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                > > and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The
                > bell
                > > sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing
                > a
                > > bell).
                > >
                > > A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so
                > applicable
                > > to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons
                > was
                > > an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                > > fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key
                > to the
                > > logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people
                > thought
                > > about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.
                > >
                > > I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their
                > back
                > > hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.
                > >
                > > Dave McGowan
                > >
                > > eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Dave,
                > > >
                > > > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                > > > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                > > > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                > > > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a
                > couple
                > > > of times and comments on training them, from
                > > >
                > > > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                > > > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                > > > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule"
                > could
                > > > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                > > >
                > > > If you find more, please let us know.
                > > >
                > > > Larry F.
                > > >
                > > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                > > > mule?
                > > > > Same as a "green mule"?
                > > > >
                > > > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                > > > writes
                > > > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                > > > >
                > > > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                > > > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                > > > >
                > > > > Dave McGowan
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
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