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Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?

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  • Ian Workman
    Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the area after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from a hot air
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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      Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the area
      after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from a hot
      air baloon.

      On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Stephen Recker <
      recker@...> wrote:

      > Tom,
      >
      > Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?
      >
      > Stephen
      >
      > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:
      >
      > > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near
      > > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
      > > photo.
      > >
      > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      > > Professor of History
      > > Hagerstown Community College
      > >
      > > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...<recker%40virtualgettysburg.com>>
      > 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
      > > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
      > > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
      > > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
      > > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
      > > thoughts? Thanks.
      > >
      > > Stephen
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Thomas Clemens
      Stop[ by where? Don t forget where I am this semester. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College ... Tom, Is there a good time
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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        Stop[ by where? Don't forget where I am this semester.


        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College


        >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 7:07 PM >>>
        Tom,

        Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?

        Stephen

        On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

        > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near
        > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
        > photo.
        >
        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        > Professor of History
        > Hagerstown Community College
        >
        > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
        > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
        > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
        > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
        > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
        > thoughts? Thanks.
        >
        > Stephen
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Recker
        Da ohh. Never mind. ;-) Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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          Da'ohh. Never mind.

          ;-)

          Stephen

          On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 08:03 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

          > Stop[ by where? Don't forget where I am this semester.
          >
          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > Professor of History
          > Hagerstown Community College
          >
          > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 7:07 PM >>>
          > Tom,
          >
          > Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?
          >
          > Stephen
          >
          > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:
          >
          > > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge
          > near
          > > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
          > > photo.
          > >
          > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > > Professor of History
          > > Hagerstown Community College
          > >
          > > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM
          > >>>
          > > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
          > > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
          > > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
          > > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
          > > thoughts? Thanks.
          > >
          > > Stephen
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Recker
          That s what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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            That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.

            Stephen

            On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:

            > Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the
            > area
            > after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from
            > a hot
            > air baloon.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dave
            Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book addressing the old army mule is
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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              Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
              doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book addressing
              the old army mule is *
              <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
              and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The bell
              sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing a
              bell).

              A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so applicable
              to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons was
              an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
              fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key to the
              logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people thought
              about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.

              I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their back
              hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.

              Dave McGowan

              eighth_conn_inf wrote:
              >
              > Dave,
              >
              > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
              > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
              > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
              > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a couple
              > of times and comments on training them, from
              >
              > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
              > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
              > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
              >
              >
              > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule" could
              > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
              >
              > If you find more, please let us know.
              >
              > Larry F.
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
              > mule?
              > > Same as a "green mule"?
              > >
              > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
              > writes
              > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
              > >
              > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
              > > guess). Thanks for any help.
              > >
              > > Dave McGowan
              > >
              >
              >
            • G E Mayers
              Where is Tom C this semester anyway? Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth,
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                Where is Tom C this semester anyway?

                Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo.

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:54 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?


                > That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.
                >
                > Stephen
                >
                > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:
                >
                >> Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some
                >> in the
                >> area
                >> after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron
                >> Works from
                >> a hot
                >> air baloon.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • Ian Workman
                As far as I know the photos that were taken from the hot air balloon were in the 1880 s. Does this sound right. I have also seen familiar ones from South
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                  As far as I know the photos that were taken from the hot air balloon were
                  in the 1880's. Does this sound right. I have also seen familiar ones from
                  South Mountain overlooking the valley. Does anyone know who was doing this?

                  Ian

                  On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:31 PM, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:

                  > Where is Tom C this semester anyway?
                  >
                  > Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo.
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...<recker%40virtualgettysburg.com>
                  > >
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                  > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:54 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?
                  >
                  > > That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.
                  > >
                  > > Stephen
                  > >
                  > > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some
                  > >> in the
                  > >> area
                  > >> after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron
                  > >> Works from
                  > >> a hot
                  > >> air baloon.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • eighth_conn_inf
                  Dave, I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on the CW worth
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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                    Dave,

                    I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one
                    chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on
                    the CW worth buying it?

                    Thank you,
                    Larry


                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                    > doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book
                    addressing
                    > the old army mule is *
                    > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                    /0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                    > and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The
                    bell
                    > sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing
                    a
                    > bell).
                    >
                    > A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so
                    applicable
                    > to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons
                    was
                    > an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                    > fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key
                    to the
                    > logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people
                    thought
                    > about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.
                    >
                    > I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their
                    back
                    > hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.
                    >
                    > Dave McGowan
                    >
                    > eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dave,
                    > >
                    > > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                    > > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                    > > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                    > > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a
                    couple
                    > > of times and comments on training them, from
                    > >
                    > > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                    > > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                    > > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule"
                    could
                    > > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                    > >
                    > > If you find more, please let us know.
                    > >
                    > > Larry F.
                    > >
                    > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                    > > mule?
                    > > > Same as a "green mule"?
                    > > >
                    > > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                    > > writes
                    > > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                    > > >
                    > > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                    > > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                    > > >
                    > > > Dave McGowan
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Dave
                    Larry, I don t have the book, and I don t think it s worth buying either. The problem is the pack mule coverage of recent vintage, which of course is easier
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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                      Larry, I don't have the book, and I don't think it's worth buying
                      either. The problem is the pack mule coverage of recent vintage, which
                      of course is easier to research and is more time-relevant. My guess is
                      that after going through all the material on mules in the OR, diaries,
                      and other ACW sources, you would have to find a mule guy who actually
                      breaks and trains mules to harness and get the real info from him. I
                      doubt that mules have changed much over the years, but I bet most of
                      that knowledge has been lost.

                      And, does anyone know why the formatting in my posts are so screwed up?

                      Dave

                      eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                      >
                      > Dave,
                      >
                      > I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one
                      > chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on
                      > the CW worth buying it?
                      >
                      > Thank you,
                      > Larry
                      >
                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                      > > doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book
                      > addressing
                      > > the old army mule is *
                      > > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                      > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/->
                      > /0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                      > > and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The
                      > bell
                      > > sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing
                      > a
                      > > bell).
                      > >
                      > > A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so
                      > applicable
                      > > to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons
                      > was
                      > > an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                      > > fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key
                      > to the
                      > > logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people
                      > thought
                      > > about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.
                      > >
                      > > I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their
                      > back
                      > > hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.
                      > >
                      > > Dave McGowan
                      > >
                      > > eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Dave,
                      > > >
                      > > > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                      > > > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                      > > > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                      > > > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a
                      > couple
                      > > > of times and comments on training them, from
                      > > >
                      > > > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                      > > > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                      > > > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule"
                      > could
                      > > > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                      > > >
                      > > > If you find more, please let us know.
                      > > >
                      > > > Larry F.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                      > > > mule?
                      > > > > Same as a "green mule"?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                      > > > writes
                      > > > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                      > > > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Dave McGowan
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
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