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Re: Raw Mule

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    Dave, Looks like you are correct that raw or green means a mule (or even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn t use either of these is his
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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      Dave,

      Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
      even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
      these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
      Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a couple
      of times and comments on training them, from

      "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
      INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
      SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"

      BY

      ALBERT O. MARSHALL.

      JOLIET, ILL.
      1883.

      "The train we came with from Pilot Knob this time
      is made up of raw mules that have never before been
      hitched to army wagons. It has been fun alive to see
      the teamsters attempt to drive the stubborn, unbroken
      animals. At first it was a continual runaway through
      the entire line. But being in the woods all the time,
      the only result would be that the ponderous army
      wagon would in a moment be caught upon a tree and
      then the mules would become tangled together and tumble in a heap.
      The thing to do now was to untangle the huge pile of mules. Let
      imagination picture the scene. Sometimes in a fierce run a small tree
      would be bent over by the force with which the mules
      would strike it and then regaining its strength would
      straighten up and thus frequently a team of the
      smaller mules would be found hanging up in a tree.

      An army team consists of six mules. The two larg-
      est ones being the wheel mules and the smallest two,
      the lead mules. The entire team is driven by a sin-
      gle line running up to the bridle of the right lead
      mule. A steady pull on the line means that the lead
      mule is to turn to the left, quick jerks tell him to
      turn to the right. It is wonderful how soon a raw
      mule can be taught to obey this awkward mode of
      indicating to him which way he is to go. With this
      single line the driver riding one of the wheel mules
      guides his team of six through many of the most diffi-
      cult and dangerous places.

      The army mule occupies a place that no other animal could so well
      fill. His life in the army shows that the mule has never been
      fully appreciated, [n reputation a mule is concen-
      trated stubbornness and obstinacy. In reality he is
      generally docile, faithful and tireless. Even when rniv-
      ning away a mule team never gets wildly crazy as
      horses often do. They never knock their own brains
      out against a tree or stone wall. Unless it is raw
      mules that have never learned to pull a wagon, like
      those we were driving on this trip, a runaway mule
      team will only go so far as it can have a safe place to
      run in. Of the hundreds of times that I have known
      of a team of six mules escaping from their drivers and
      starting on a run, I have not seen any that would run
      any farther than where they could find an open road.

      Six horses in the same condition would become so
      frightened that the wagon would be broken to pieces
      and some of the horses killed. The mule as an army
      mule is a success.

      .Our wagons were run empty to Patterson. The
      two days' drive had broken in the raw mules so that
      they knew how to draw. During the forenoon of
      Friday, the ninth, we loaded up and started for Van
      Buren. Went five miles. At night camped by a va-
      cant schoolhouse which some of us used for our
      night's sleeping room. Saturday we went through to Black River, our
      raw mules drawing 'very well.

      This is the two-line URL:

      http://libsysdigi.library.uiuc.edu/oca/Books2007-
      06/armylifefromsold00mars/armylifefromsold00mars_djvu.txt

      Reprint available from Kessinger Publishing, ISBN-10: 1436614481

      My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule" could
      also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.

      If you find more, please let us know.

      Larry F.






      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
      >
      > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
      mule?
      > Same as a "green mule"?
      >
      > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
      writes
      > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
      >
      > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
      > guess). Thanks for any help.
      >
      > Dave McGowan
      >
    • Stephen Recker
      I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet south of where the
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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        I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
        looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
        south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
        1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
        thoughts? Thanks.

        Stephen
      • Thomas Clemens
        I m probably telling you something you already know, but in the old army a new or raw mule had its tail shaved so that everyone would recognize its status.
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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          I'm probably telling you something you already know, but in the "old army" a new or raw mule had its tail shaved so that everyone would recognize its status. Over time a new soldier, especially a 2nd Lt. became referred to as a "shavetail" to designate the same thing.

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 02/22/09 11:05 AM >>>
          Dave,

          Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
          even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
          these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
          Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a couple
          of times and comments on training them, from

          "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
          INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
          SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"

          BY

          ALBERT O. MARSHALL.

          JOLIET, ILL.
          1883.

          "The train we came with from Pilot Knob this time
          is made up of raw mules that have never before been
          hitched to army wagons. It has been fun alive to see
          the teamsters attempt to drive the stubborn, unbroken
          animals. At first it was a continual runaway through
          the entire line. But being in the woods all the time,
          the only result would be that the ponderous army
          wagon would in a moment be caught upon a tree and
          then the mules would become tangled together and tumble in a heap.
          The thing to do now was to untangle the huge pile of mules. Let
          imagination picture the scene. Sometimes in a fierce run a small tree
          would be bent over by the force with which the mules
          would strike it and then regaining its strength would
          straighten up and thus frequently a team of the
          smaller mules would be found hanging up in a tree.

          An army team consists of six mules. The two larg-
          est ones being the wheel mules and the smallest two,
          the lead mules. The entire team is driven by a sin-
          gle line running up to the bridle of the right lead
          mule. A steady pull on the line means that the lead
          mule is to turn to the left, quick jerks tell him to
          turn to the right. It is wonderful how soon a raw
          mule can be taught to obey this awkward mode of
          indicating to him which way he is to go. With this
          single line the driver riding one of the wheel mules
          guides his team of six through many of the most diffi-
          cult and dangerous places.

          The army mule occupies a place that no other animal could so well
          fill. His life in the army shows that the mule has never been
          fully appreciated, [n reputation a mule is concen-
          trated stubbornness and obstinacy. In reality he is
          generally docile, faithful and tireless. Even when rniv-
          ning away a mule team never gets wildly crazy as
          horses often do. They never knock their own brains
          out against a tree or stone wall. Unless it is raw
          mules that have never learned to pull a wagon, like
          those we were driving on this trip, a runaway mule
          team will only go so far as it can have a safe place to
          run in. Of the hundreds of times that I have known
          of a team of six mules escaping from their drivers and
          starting on a run, I have not seen any that would run
          any farther than where they could find an open road.

          Six horses in the same condition would become so
          frightened that the wagon would be broken to pieces
          and some of the horses killed. The mule as an army
          mule is a success.

          .Our wagons were run empty to Patterson. The
          two days' drive had broken in the raw mules so that
          they knew how to draw. During the forenoon of
          Friday, the ninth, we loaded up and started for Van
          Buren. Went five miles. At night camped by a va-
          cant schoolhouse which some of us used for our
          night's sleeping room. Saturday we went through to Black River, our
          raw mules drawing 'very well.

          This is the two-line URL:

          http://libsysdigi.library.uiuc.edu/oca/Books2007-
          06/armylifefromsold00mars/armylifefromsold00mars_djvu.txt

          Reprint available from Kessinger Publishing, ISBN-10: 1436614481

          My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule" could
          also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.

          If you find more, please let us know.

          Larry F.






          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
          >
          > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
          mule?
          > Same as a "green mule"?
          >
          > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
          writes
          > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
          >
          > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
          > guess). Thanks for any help.
          >
          > Dave McGowan
          >
        • Thomas Clemens
          1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the photo. Thomas G.
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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            1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the photo.

            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College


            >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
            I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
            looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
            south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
            1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
            thoughts? Thanks.

            Stephen
          • Stephen Recker
            Tom, Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow? Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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              Tom,

              Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?

              Stephen

              On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

              > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near
              > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
              > photo.
              >
              > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              > Professor of History
              > Hagerstown Community College
              >
              > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
              > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
              > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
              > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
              > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
              > thoughts? Thanks.
              >
              > Stephen
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ian Workman
              Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the area after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from a hot air
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the area
                after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from a hot
                air baloon.

                On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Stephen Recker <
                recker@...> wrote:

                > Tom,
                >
                > Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?
                >
                > Stephen
                >
                > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:
                >
                > > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near
                > > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
                > > photo.
                > >
                > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > > Professor of History
                > > Hagerstown Community College
                > >
                > > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...<recker%40virtualgettysburg.com>>
                > 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
                > > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
                > > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
                > > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
                > > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
                > > thoughts? Thanks.
                > >
                > > Stephen
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Thomas Clemens
                Stop[ by where? Don t forget where I am this semester. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College ... Tom, Is there a good time
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                  Stop[ by where? Don't forget where I am this semester.


                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College


                  >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 7:07 PM >>>
                  Tom,

                  Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?

                  Stephen

                  On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                  > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near
                  > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
                  > photo.
                  >
                  > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > Professor of History
                  > Hagerstown Community College
                  >
                  > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
                  > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
                  > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
                  > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
                  > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
                  > thoughts? Thanks.
                  >
                  > Stephen
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stephen Recker
                  Da ohh. Never mind. ;-) Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                    Da'ohh. Never mind.

                    ;-)

                    Stephen

                    On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 08:03 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                    > Stop[ by where? Don't forget where I am this semester.
                    >
                    > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > Professor of History
                    > Hagerstown Community College
                    >
                    > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 7:07 PM >>>
                    > Tom,
                    >
                    > Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                    > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:
                    >
                    > > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge
                    > near
                    > > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
                    > > photo.
                    > >
                    > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > > Professor of History
                    > > Hagerstown Community College
                    > >
                    > > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM
                    > >>>
                    > > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
                    > > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
                    > > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
                    > > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
                    > > thoughts? Thanks.
                    > >
                    > > Stephen
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Stephen Recker
                    That s what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                      That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.

                      Stephen

                      On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:

                      > Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the
                      > area
                      > after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from
                      > a hot
                      > air baloon.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Dave
                      Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book addressing the old army mule is
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                        Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                        doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book addressing
                        the old army mule is *
                        <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                        and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The bell
                        sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing a
                        bell).

                        A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so applicable
                        to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons was
                        an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                        fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key to the
                        logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people thought
                        about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.

                        I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their back
                        hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.

                        Dave McGowan

                        eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                        >
                        > Dave,
                        >
                        > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                        > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                        > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                        > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a couple
                        > of times and comments on training them, from
                        >
                        > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                        > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                        > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                        >
                        >
                        > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule" could
                        > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                        >
                        > If you find more, please let us know.
                        >
                        > Larry F.
                        >
                        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                        > mule?
                        > > Same as a "green mule"?
                        > >
                        > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                        > writes
                        > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                        > >
                        > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                        > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                        > >
                        > > Dave McGowan
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                      • G E Mayers
                        Where is Tom C this semester anyway? Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                          Where is Tom C this semester anyway?

                          Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo.

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:54 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?


                          > That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.
                          >
                          > Stephen
                          >
                          > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:
                          >
                          >> Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some
                          >> in the
                          >> area
                          >> after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron
                          >> Works from
                          >> a hot
                          >> air baloon.
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • Ian Workman
                          As far as I know the photos that were taken from the hot air balloon were in the 1880 s. Does this sound right. I have also seen familiar ones from South
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                            As far as I know the photos that were taken from the hot air balloon were
                            in the 1880's. Does this sound right. I have also seen familiar ones from
                            South Mountain overlooking the valley. Does anyone know who was doing this?

                            Ian

                            On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:31 PM, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:

                            > Where is Tom C this semester anyway?
                            >
                            > Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo.
                            >
                            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            >
                            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...<recker%40virtualgettysburg.com>
                            > >
                            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                            > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:54 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?
                            >
                            > > That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.
                            > >
                            > > Stephen
                            > >
                            > > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:
                            > >
                            > >> Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some
                            > >> in the
                            > >> area
                            > >> after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron
                            > >> Works from
                            > >> a hot
                            > >> air baloon.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • eighth_conn_inf
                            Dave, I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on the CW worth
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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                              Dave,

                              I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one
                              chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on
                              the CW worth buying it?

                              Thank you,
                              Larry


                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                              > doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book
                              addressing
                              > the old army mule is *
                              > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                              /0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                              > and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The
                              bell
                              > sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing
                              a
                              > bell).
                              >
                              > A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so
                              applicable
                              > to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons
                              was
                              > an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                              > fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key
                              to the
                              > logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people
                              thought
                              > about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.
                              >
                              > I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their
                              back
                              > hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.
                              >
                              > Dave McGowan
                              >
                              > eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dave,
                              > >
                              > > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                              > > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                              > > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                              > > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a
                              couple
                              > > of times and comments on training them, from
                              > >
                              > > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                              > > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                              > > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule"
                              could
                              > > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                              > >
                              > > If you find more, please let us know.
                              > >
                              > > Larry F.
                              > >
                              > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                              > > mule?
                              > > > Same as a "green mule"?
                              > > >
                              > > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                              > > writes
                              > > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                              > > >
                              > > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                              > > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                              > > >
                              > > > Dave McGowan
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Dave
                              Larry, I don t have the book, and I don t think it s worth buying either. The problem is the pack mule coverage of recent vintage, which of course is easier
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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                                Larry, I don't have the book, and I don't think it's worth buying
                                either. The problem is the pack mule coverage of recent vintage, which
                                of course is easier to research and is more time-relevant. My guess is
                                that after going through all the material on mules in the OR, diaries,
                                and other ACW sources, you would have to find a mule guy who actually
                                breaks and trains mules to harness and get the real info from him. I
                                doubt that mules have changed much over the years, but I bet most of
                                that knowledge has been lost.

                                And, does anyone know why the formatting in my posts are so screwed up?

                                Dave

                                eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                >
                                > Dave,
                                >
                                > I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one
                                > chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on
                                > the CW worth buying it?
                                >
                                > Thank you,
                                > Larry
                                >
                                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                                > > doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book
                                > addressing
                                > > the old army mule is *
                                > > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                                > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/->
                                > /0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                                > > and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The
                                > bell
                                > > sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing
                                > a
                                > > bell).
                                > >
                                > > A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so
                                > applicable
                                > > to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons
                                > was
                                > > an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                                > > fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key
                                > to the
                                > > logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people
                                > thought
                                > > about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.
                                > >
                                > > I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their
                                > back
                                > > hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.
                                > >
                                > > Dave McGowan
                                > >
                                > > eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Dave,
                                > > >
                                > > > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                                > > > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                                > > > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                                > > > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a
                                > couple
                                > > > of times and comments on training them, from
                                > > >
                                > > > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                                > > > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                                > > > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule"
                                > could
                                > > > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                                > > >
                                > > > If you find more, please let us know.
                                > > >
                                > > > Larry F.
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                                > > > mule?
                                > > > > Same as a "green mule"?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                                > > > writes
                                > > > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                                > > > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Dave McGowan
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
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