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Raw Mule

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  • Dave
    Came across the term raw mule in the OR. Is this an unbroken mule? Same as a green mule ? Anyone know how long it took to make the mule unraw ? GH Thomas
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 21, 2009
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      Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken mule?
      Same as a "green mule"?

      Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas writes
      that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.

      From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
      guess). Thanks for any help.

      Dave McGowan
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Dave, Looks like you are correct that raw or green means a mule (or even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn t use either of these is his
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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        Dave,

        Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
        even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
        these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
        Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a couple
        of times and comments on training them, from

        "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
        INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
        SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"

        BY

        ALBERT O. MARSHALL.

        JOLIET, ILL.
        1883.

        "The train we came with from Pilot Knob this time
        is made up of raw mules that have never before been
        hitched to army wagons. It has been fun alive to see
        the teamsters attempt to drive the stubborn, unbroken
        animals. At first it was a continual runaway through
        the entire line. But being in the woods all the time,
        the only result would be that the ponderous army
        wagon would in a moment be caught upon a tree and
        then the mules would become tangled together and tumble in a heap.
        The thing to do now was to untangle the huge pile of mules. Let
        imagination picture the scene. Sometimes in a fierce run a small tree
        would be bent over by the force with which the mules
        would strike it and then regaining its strength would
        straighten up and thus frequently a team of the
        smaller mules would be found hanging up in a tree.

        An army team consists of six mules. The two larg-
        est ones being the wheel mules and the smallest two,
        the lead mules. The entire team is driven by a sin-
        gle line running up to the bridle of the right lead
        mule. A steady pull on the line means that the lead
        mule is to turn to the left, quick jerks tell him to
        turn to the right. It is wonderful how soon a raw
        mule can be taught to obey this awkward mode of
        indicating to him which way he is to go. With this
        single line the driver riding one of the wheel mules
        guides his team of six through many of the most diffi-
        cult and dangerous places.

        The army mule occupies a place that no other animal could so well
        fill. His life in the army shows that the mule has never been
        fully appreciated, [n reputation a mule is concen-
        trated stubbornness and obstinacy. In reality he is
        generally docile, faithful and tireless. Even when rniv-
        ning away a mule team never gets wildly crazy as
        horses often do. They never knock their own brains
        out against a tree or stone wall. Unless it is raw
        mules that have never learned to pull a wagon, like
        those we were driving on this trip, a runaway mule
        team will only go so far as it can have a safe place to
        run in. Of the hundreds of times that I have known
        of a team of six mules escaping from their drivers and
        starting on a run, I have not seen any that would run
        any farther than where they could find an open road.

        Six horses in the same condition would become so
        frightened that the wagon would be broken to pieces
        and some of the horses killed. The mule as an army
        mule is a success.

        .Our wagons were run empty to Patterson. The
        two days' drive had broken in the raw mules so that
        they knew how to draw. During the forenoon of
        Friday, the ninth, we loaded up and started for Van
        Buren. Went five miles. At night camped by a va-
        cant schoolhouse which some of us used for our
        night's sleeping room. Saturday we went through to Black River, our
        raw mules drawing 'very well.

        This is the two-line URL:

        http://libsysdigi.library.uiuc.edu/oca/Books2007-
        06/armylifefromsold00mars/armylifefromsold00mars_djvu.txt

        Reprint available from Kessinger Publishing, ISBN-10: 1436614481

        My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule" could
        also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.

        If you find more, please let us know.

        Larry F.






        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
        >
        > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
        mule?
        > Same as a "green mule"?
        >
        > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
        writes
        > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
        >
        > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
        > guess). Thanks for any help.
        >
        > Dave McGowan
        >
      • Stephen Recker
        I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet south of where the
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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          I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
          looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
          south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
          1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
          thoughts? Thanks.

          Stephen
        • Thomas Clemens
          I m probably telling you something you already know, but in the old army a new or raw mule had its tail shaved so that everyone would recognize its status.
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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            I'm probably telling you something you already know, but in the "old army" a new or raw mule had its tail shaved so that everyone would recognize its status. Over time a new soldier, especially a 2nd Lt. became referred to as a "shavetail" to designate the same thing.

            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College


            >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 02/22/09 11:05 AM >>>
            Dave,

            Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
            even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
            these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
            Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a couple
            of times and comments on training them, from

            "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
            INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
            SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"

            BY

            ALBERT O. MARSHALL.

            JOLIET, ILL.
            1883.

            "The train we came with from Pilot Knob this time
            is made up of raw mules that have never before been
            hitched to army wagons. It has been fun alive to see
            the teamsters attempt to drive the stubborn, unbroken
            animals. At first it was a continual runaway through
            the entire line. But being in the woods all the time,
            the only result would be that the ponderous army
            wagon would in a moment be caught upon a tree and
            then the mules would become tangled together and tumble in a heap.
            The thing to do now was to untangle the huge pile of mules. Let
            imagination picture the scene. Sometimes in a fierce run a small tree
            would be bent over by the force with which the mules
            would strike it and then regaining its strength would
            straighten up and thus frequently a team of the
            smaller mules would be found hanging up in a tree.

            An army team consists of six mules. The two larg-
            est ones being the wheel mules and the smallest two,
            the lead mules. The entire team is driven by a sin-
            gle line running up to the bridle of the right lead
            mule. A steady pull on the line means that the lead
            mule is to turn to the left, quick jerks tell him to
            turn to the right. It is wonderful how soon a raw
            mule can be taught to obey this awkward mode of
            indicating to him which way he is to go. With this
            single line the driver riding one of the wheel mules
            guides his team of six through many of the most diffi-
            cult and dangerous places.

            The army mule occupies a place that no other animal could so well
            fill. His life in the army shows that the mule has never been
            fully appreciated, [n reputation a mule is concen-
            trated stubbornness and obstinacy. In reality he is
            generally docile, faithful and tireless. Even when rniv-
            ning away a mule team never gets wildly crazy as
            horses often do. They never knock their own brains
            out against a tree or stone wall. Unless it is raw
            mules that have never learned to pull a wagon, like
            those we were driving on this trip, a runaway mule
            team will only go so far as it can have a safe place to
            run in. Of the hundreds of times that I have known
            of a team of six mules escaping from their drivers and
            starting on a run, I have not seen any that would run
            any farther than where they could find an open road.

            Six horses in the same condition would become so
            frightened that the wagon would be broken to pieces
            and some of the horses killed. The mule as an army
            mule is a success.

            .Our wagons were run empty to Patterson. The
            two days' drive had broken in the raw mules so that
            they knew how to draw. During the forenoon of
            Friday, the ninth, we loaded up and started for Van
            Buren. Went five miles. At night camped by a va-
            cant schoolhouse which some of us used for our
            night's sleeping room. Saturday we went through to Black River, our
            raw mules drawing 'very well.

            This is the two-line URL:

            http://libsysdigi.library.uiuc.edu/oca/Books2007-
            06/armylifefromsold00mars/armylifefromsold00mars_djvu.txt

            Reprint available from Kessinger Publishing, ISBN-10: 1436614481

            My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule" could
            also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.

            If you find more, please let us know.

            Larry F.






            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
            >
            > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
            mule?
            > Same as a "green mule"?
            >
            > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
            writes
            > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
            >
            > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
            > guess). Thanks for any help.
            >
            > Dave McGowan
            >
          • Thomas Clemens
            1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the photo. Thomas G.
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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              1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the photo.

              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College


              >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
              I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
              looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
              south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
              1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
              thoughts? Thanks.

              Stephen
            • Stephen Recker
              Tom, Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow? Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                Tom,

                Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?

                Stephen

                On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near
                > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
                > photo.
                >
                > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > Professor of History
                > Hagerstown Community College
                >
                > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
                > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
                > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
                > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
                > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
                > thoughts? Thanks.
                >
                > Stephen
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ian Workman
                Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the area after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from a hot air
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                  Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the area
                  after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from a hot
                  air baloon.

                  On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Stephen Recker <
                  recker@...> wrote:

                  > Tom,
                  >
                  > Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?
                  >
                  > Stephen
                  >
                  > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:
                  >
                  > > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near
                  > > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
                  > > photo.
                  > >
                  > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > > Professor of History
                  > > Hagerstown Community College
                  > >
                  > > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...<recker%40virtualgettysburg.com>>
                  > 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
                  > > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
                  > > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
                  > > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
                  > > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
                  > > thoughts? Thanks.
                  > >
                  > > Stephen
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Thomas Clemens
                  Stop[ by where? Don t forget where I am this semester. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College ... Tom, Is there a good time
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                    Stop[ by where? Don't forget where I am this semester.


                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 7:07 PM >>>
                    Tom,

                    Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?

                    Stephen

                    On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                    > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge near
                    > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
                    > photo.
                    >
                    > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > Professor of History
                    > Hagerstown Community College
                    >
                    > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM >>>
                    > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
                    > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
                    > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
                    > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
                    > thoughts? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Stephen Recker
                    Da ohh. Never mind. ;-) Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                      Da'ohh. Never mind.

                      ;-)

                      Stephen

                      On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 08:03 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                      > Stop[ by where? Don't forget where I am this semester.
                      >
                      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      > Professor of History
                      > Hagerstown Community College
                      >
                      > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 7:07 PM >>>
                      > Tom,
                      >
                      > Is there a good time for me to stop by tomorrow?
                      >
                      > Stephen
                      >
                      > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 03:35 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:
                      >
                      > > 1000 feet does not get us to the cemetery tower, but on the ridge
                      > near
                      > > there? Maybe a temporary tower for the photo? Would like to see the
                      > > photo.
                      > >
                      > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      > > Professor of History
                      > > Hagerstown Community College
                      > >
                      > > >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 02/22/09 2:04 PM
                      > >>>
                      > > I just bought an Antietam photo that was hard to identify because it
                      > > looks like it was taken from about 100 feet off the ground, 1000 feet
                      > > south of where the tower is today. It looks like somewhere around
                      > > 1880-90. I am not aware of any tower that was ever in that area. Any
                      > > thoughts? Thanks.
                      > >
                      > > Stephen
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Stephen Recker
                      That s what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                        That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.

                        Stephen

                        On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:

                        > Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some in the
                        > area
                        > after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron Works from
                        > a hot
                        > air baloon.


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Dave
                        Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book addressing the old army mule is
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                          Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                          doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book addressing
                          the old army mule is *
                          <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                          and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The bell
                          sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing a
                          bell).

                          A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so applicable
                          to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons was
                          an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                          fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key to the
                          logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people thought
                          about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.

                          I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their back
                          hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.

                          Dave McGowan

                          eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                          >
                          > Dave,
                          >
                          > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                          > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                          > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                          > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a couple
                          > of times and comments on training them, from
                          >
                          > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                          > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                          > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                          >
                          >
                          > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule" could
                          > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                          >
                          > If you find more, please let us know.
                          >
                          > Larry F.
                          >
                          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                          > mule?
                          > > Same as a "green mule"?
                          > >
                          > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                          > writes
                          > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                          > >
                          > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                          > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                          > >
                          > > Dave McGowan
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                        • G E Mayers
                          Where is Tom C this semester anyway? Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth,
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                            Where is Tom C this semester anyway?

                            Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo.

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:54 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?


                            > That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.
                            >
                            > Stephen
                            >
                            > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:
                            >
                            >> Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some
                            >> in the
                            >> area
                            >> after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron
                            >> Works from
                            >> a hot
                            >> air baloon.
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                          • Ian Workman
                            As far as I know the photos that were taken from the hot air balloon were in the 1880 s. Does this sound right. I have also seen familiar ones from South
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 22, 2009
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                              As far as I know the photos that were taken from the hot air balloon were
                              in the 1880's. Does this sound right. I have also seen familiar ones from
                              South Mountain overlooking the valley. Does anyone know who was doing this?

                              Ian

                              On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:31 PM, G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:

                              > Where is Tom C this semester anyway?
                              >
                              > Too bad there is no weblink Steve to the photo.
                              >
                              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              >
                              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...<recker%40virtualgettysburg.com>
                              > >
                              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
                              > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:54 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Tower soutn of tower?
                              >
                              > > That's what I thought. When were they taken? Thanks.
                              > >
                              > > Stephen
                              > >
                              > > On Sunday, February 22, 2009, at 07:46 PM, Ian Workman wrote:
                              > >
                              > >> Could it have been taken by a hot air baloon. There were some
                              > >> in the
                              > >> area
                              > >> after the war. There were photos taken around Antietam Iron
                              > >> Works from
                              > >> a hot
                              > >> air baloon.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • eighth_conn_inf
                              Dave, I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on the CW worth
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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                                Dave,

                                I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one
                                chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on
                                the CW worth buying it?

                                Thank you,
                                Larry


                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                                > doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book
                                addressing
                                > the old army mule is *
                                > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                                /0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                                > and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The
                                bell
                                > sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing
                                a
                                > bell).
                                >
                                > A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so
                                applicable
                                > to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons
                                was
                                > an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                                > fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key
                                to the
                                > logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people
                                thought
                                > about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.
                                >
                                > I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their
                                back
                                > hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.
                                >
                                > Dave McGowan
                                >
                                > eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Dave,
                                > >
                                > > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                                > > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                                > > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                                > > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a
                                couple
                                > > of times and comments on training them, from
                                > >
                                > > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                                > > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                                > > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule"
                                could
                                > > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                                > >
                                > > If you find more, please let us know.
                                > >
                                > > Larry F.
                                > >
                                > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                                > > mule?
                                > > > Same as a "green mule"?
                                > > >
                                > > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                                > > writes
                                > > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                                > > >
                                > > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                                > > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                                > > >
                                > > > Dave McGowan
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Dave
                                Larry, I don t have the book, and I don t think it s worth buying either. The problem is the pack mule coverage of recent vintage, which of course is easier
                                Message 15 of 15 , Feb 23, 2009
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                                  Larry, I don't have the book, and I don't think it's worth buying
                                  either. The problem is the pack mule coverage of recent vintage, which
                                  of course is easier to research and is more time-relevant. My guess is
                                  that after going through all the material on mules in the OR, diaries,
                                  and other ACW sources, you would have to find a mule guy who actually
                                  breaks and trains mules to harness and get the real info from him. I
                                  doubt that mules have changed much over the years, but I bet most of
                                  that knowledge has been lost.

                                  And, does anyone know why the formatting in my posts are so screwed up?

                                  Dave

                                  eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dave,
                                  >
                                  > I looked at the book on Amazon and the table of contents shows one
                                  > chapter on the CW. Do you have the book and if so, is the material on
                                  > the CW worth buying it?
                                  >
                                  > Thank you,
                                  > Larry
                                  >
                                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks for that article, Larry, and the shavetail story Tom. After
                                  > > doing a little looking around, it seems that the only book
                                  > addressing
                                  > > the old army mule is *
                                  > > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                                  > <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/->
                                  > /0803267401/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance>*"Shavetails
                                  > > and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule" by Essin (The
                                  > bell
                                  > > sharp was a white or dun mare they used to lead the mules, wearing
                                  > a
                                  > > bell).
                                  > >
                                  > > A lot of the literature addresses pack mules, which is not so
                                  > applicable
                                  > > to the ACW. My feeling is that the use of mules for pulling wagons
                                  > was
                                  > > an expedient for the war, and didn't go far beyond that. There is
                                  > > fodder here for a book or at least a long article, mules were key
                                  > to the
                                  > > logistics of both armies. The problem was that not many people
                                  > thought
                                  > > about writing about them, because they were as common as Fords.
                                  > >
                                  > > I've owned a mule. They can kick in a 360 degree arc with their
                                  > back
                                  > > hooves. I never want another one, green, raw or well done.
                                  > >
                                  > > Dave McGowan
                                  > >
                                  > > eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Dave,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Looks like you are correct that "raw" or "green" means a mule (or
                                  > > > even a soldier) which is untrained. Billings didn't use either of
                                  > > > these is his delightful chapter on mules in his book "Hardtack and
                                  > > > Coffee" but I found the following which mentions "raw mule" a
                                  > couple
                                  > > > of times and comments on training them, from
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "ARMY LIFE; FROM A SOLDIER'S JOURNAL
                                  > > > INCIDENTS, SKETCHES AND RECORD OF A UNION
                                  > > > SOLDIER'S ARMY LIFE, IN CAMP AND FIELD; 1861-64"
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > My guess is that, depending on the context, "raw or green mule"
                                  > could
                                  > > > also refer to uncooked mule, probably not a gourmet treat.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > If you find more, please let us know.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Larry F.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Came across the term "raw mule" in the OR. Is this an unbroken
                                  > > > mule?
                                  > > > > Same as a "green mule"?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Anyone know how long it took to make the mule "unraw"? GH Thomas
                                  > > > writes
                                  > > > > that it will take a "long time" on the march to do this.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > From the Battle of Mill Springs, not Antietam (but applicable, I
                                  > > > > guess). Thanks for any help.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Dave McGowan
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
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