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Another mystery to solve

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  • Thomas Clemens
    While we re solving mysteries abouth te campaign, maybe someone can help with this one. Below is a passage from Carman s chapter on Harpers Ferry. Like much
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 16, 2009
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      While we're solving mysteries abouth te campaign, maybe someone can help
      with this one. Below is a passage from Carman's chapter on Harpers
      Ferry. Like much of the manuscript, it is not footnoted. Pierro does
      not venture any thoughts on it at all. Allan Tischler's book on the
      cavalry escape from HF does not include it, although Allan knew the
      account was in Carman. He could find no evidence to corroborate it, and
      neither can I. Yet it seems too detailed and genuine to think that
      Carman just made it up; he just didn't do that sort of thing. Stuart's
      OR report says he left the Jeff Davis Legion in Boonsboro on the morning
      of the 14th, so how could they be with Hampton and cross at Brownsville
      Gap? Hart's battery, as per Trout's book Galloping Thunder, says Hart
      was with Hampton. If the JD Legion was in Boonsboro why does D.H. Hill
      imply that he has no cavalry to do recon? Even if they were there in
      the morning, they could easily be on Solomon's Gap by nightfall. Thus
      the mystery! Col. W. T. Martin of the Legion made no after action
      report, nor did Hart. Hampton's and Stuart's reports don't mention this
      action, or splitting off the Legion at Brownsville Gap. There is a
      modern regimental history of the JD Legion, but i do not have and am not
      optimistic that it covers this action, but maybe.

      Any help would be greatly appreciated.


      "The escaping Union cavalry narrowly missed another encounter, and this
      with a regiment of Confederate cavalry and a light battery of six guns.
      When Wade Hampton’s brigade of cavalry marched from Burkittsville, on
      the morning of September 14, part of it went along the east base of
      South Mountain to Knoxville on the Potomac, and picketed the roads
      leading to Berlin and Frederick. Two regiments crossed Brownsville Gap
      into Pleasant Valley one of these, the Jeff Davis Legion, with Hart’s
      South Carolina Battery of six guns, was placed at Solomon’s Gap, in Elk
      Ridge. Lieutenant Colonel W. T. Martin, commanding the regiment, threw
      out pickets in the direction of the Potomac; some of these were
      encountered and brushed away by the Union cavalry, about 10 p.m., as it
      neared the bridge spanning the Antietam near its mouth. This
      information was quickly carried to Martin, who was surprised at the news
      of an enemy in that direction, and after a hasty conference with some of
      his officers
      [p.355]
      the conclusion was reached that McClellan’s left wing had interposed
      between Jackson’s forces besieging Harpers Ferry and the Confederates at
      Turner’s Gap, Boonsboro and Hagerstown.
      Martin did not know the result of the day’s fighting at South Mountain
      and his scout reported a large Union force south and west, he decided to
      fall back towards Hagerstown and quickly set out in that direction,
      throwing scouts to the crossroads to the left, that reported the Union
      column, the cavalry from Harpers Ferry, moving parallel to him up the
      Potomac. Hart placed some of his guns in advance to cover all
      cross-roads and kept one or more at the rear of the column. Skirting
      the east base of Elk Ridge, the column, leaving Keedysville to the
      right, went over the Antietam by the bridge above Pry's Mill and, going
      through Smoketown and Bakersville, came to Downsville, where, just
      before sunrise, it was learned that the Union cavalry had passed that
      point. From Downsville Martin followed rapidly after the retiring
      force, and soon after sunrise saw the explosions from the burning of a
      part of Longstreet's ordnance train, which had been intercepted. After
      a short pursuit, past the burning wagons, Martin withdrew to
      Williamsport, crossed the Potomac, went down the Virginia side,
      recrossed the river at Shepherdstown Ford, on the afternoon of the 16th
      and rejoined his brigade at Sharpsburg on the 17th. "



      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Tom, This is all I found from The Little Jeff: The Jeff Davis Legion, Cavalry Army of Northern Virginia, by Donald A Hopkins: The Jeff Davis Legion camped
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 16, 2009
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        Tom,

        This is all I found from "The Little Jeff: The Jeff Davis Legion,
        Cavalry Army of Northern Virginia," by Donald A Hopkins:

        "The Jeff Davis Legion camped the night of September 13, near
        Boonsboro on the west side of South Mountain. (94)... The Jeff Davis
        Legion rode south [the 14th] towards Harper's Ferry along the
        turnpike leading from Boonsboro toward Shepherstown, halting at a
        little village named Cedarville. They remained here for most of the
        day, watching the battle on South Mountain, and awaiting orders. (97)
        After waiting all day to move to the assistance of the infantry
        returning from Harper's Ferry, at about 10 P.M. the men of the Jeff
        Davis finally unsaddled their horses. Hardly had this been completed
        when they were ordered to remount and move out to defend Longstreet's
        wagons--except for a squadron from Company F which was sent to guard
        a bridge at Cadesville as Confederate infantry passed that point
        moving toward Sharpsburg. After dispersing the remaining Yankee
        cavalry from around the ordnance train, the Little Jeff, still
        detached from the rest of Hampton's Brigade, escorted the undamaged
        portion of the train southwestward toward Williamsport. It
        accompanied the train across the upper Potomac RIver at about 7 A.M.
        the next morning. From here the sleepy troopers continued their
        march, now southeastward to Shepherdstown, at which place they
        stopped and fed their horses...That afternoon the Jeff Davis Legion
        moved out about nine miles fronm town where they bivouacked for the
        night. The next day, September 16, Sparkman and his comrades moved
        back towards Maryland at a slow trot, crossing over the Potomac River
        near Sharpsburg about 4 P.M. (98).

        Larry F.


        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > While we're solving mysteries abouth te campaign, maybe someone can
        help
        > with this one. Below is a passage from Carman's chapter on Harpers
        > Ferry. Like much of the manuscript, it is not footnoted. Pierro
        does
        > not venture any thoughts on it at all. Allan Tischler's book on the
        > cavalry escape from HF does not include it, although Allan knew the
        > account was in Carman. He could find no evidence to corroborate
        it, and
        > neither can I. Yet it seems too detailed and genuine to think that
        > Carman just made it up; he just didn't do that sort of thing.
        Stuart's
        > OR report says he left the Jeff Davis Legion in Boonsboro on the
        morning
        > of the 14th, so how could they be with Hampton and cross at
        Brownsville
        > Gap? Hart's battery, as per Trout's book Galloping Thunder, says
        Hart
        > was with Hampton. If the JD Legion was in Boonsboro why does D.H.
        Hill
        > imply that he has no cavalry to do recon? Even if they were there
        in
        > the morning, they could easily be on Solomon's Gap by nightfall.
        Thus
        > the mystery! Col. W. T. Martin of the Legion made no after action
        > report, nor did Hart. Hampton's and Stuart's reports don't mention
        this
        > action, or splitting off the Legion at Brownsville Gap. There is a
        > modern regimental history of the JD Legion, but i do not have and
        am not
        > optimistic that it covers this action, but maybe.
        >
        > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
        >
        >
        > "The escaping Union cavalry narrowly missed another encounter, and
        this
        > with a regiment of Confederate cavalry and a light battery of six
        guns.
        > When Wade Hampton’s brigade of cavalry marched from
        Burkittsville, on
        > the morning of September 14, part of it went along the east base of
        > South Mountain to Knoxville on the Potomac, and picketed the roads
        > leading to Berlin and Frederick. Two regiments crossed Brownsville
        Gap
        > into Pleasant Valley one of these, the Jeff Davis Legion, with
        Hart’s
        > South Carolina Battery of six guns, was placed at Solomon’s Gap,
        in Elk
        > Ridge. Lieutenant Colonel W. T. Martin, commanding the regiment,
        threw
        > out pickets in the direction of the Potomac; some of these were
        > encountered and brushed away by the Union cavalry, about 10 p.m.,
        as it
        > neared the bridge spanning the Antietam near its mouth. This
        > information was quickly carried to Martin, who was surprised at the
        news
        > of an enemy in that direction, and after a hasty conference with
        some of
        > his officers
        > [p.355]
        > the conclusion was reached that McClellan’s left wing had
        interposed
        > between Jackson’s forces besieging Harpers Ferry and the
        Confederates at
        > Turner’s Gap, Boonsboro and Hagerstown.
        > Martin did not know the result of the day’s fighting at South
        Mountain
        > and his scout reported a large Union force south and west, he
        decided to
        > fall back towards Hagerstown and quickly set out in that direction,
        > throwing scouts to the crossroads to the left, that reported the
        Union
        > column, the cavalry from Harpers Ferry, moving parallel to him up
        the
        > Potomac. Hart placed some of his guns in advance to cover all
        > cross-roads and kept one or more at the rear of the column.
        Skirting
        > the east base of Elk Ridge, the column, leaving Keedysville to the
        > right, went over the Antietam by the bridge above Pry's Mill and,
        going
        > through Smoketown and Bakersville, came to Downsville, where, just
        > before sunrise, it was learned that the Union cavalry had passed
        that
        > point. From Downsville Martin followed rapidly after the retiring
        > force, and soon after sunrise saw the explosions from the burning
        of a
        > part of Longstreet's ordnance train, which had been intercepted.
        After
        > a short pursuit, past the burning wagons, Martin withdrew to
        > Williamsport, crossed the Potomac, went down the Virginia side,
        > recrossed the river at Shepherdstown Ford, on the afternoon of the
        16th
        > and rejoined his brigade at Sharpsburg on the 17th. "
        >
        >
        >
        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        > Professor of History
        > Hagerstown Community College
        >
      • Thomas Clemens
        Hmm, this is interesting. The directions and town names don t make sense. South out of Boonsboro is towards HF more than it is towards Shepherdstown. I know
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 16, 2009
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          Hmm, this is interesting. The directions and town names don't make
          sense. South out of Boonsboro is towards HF more than it is towards
          Shepherdstown. I know of no "Cedarville" in this end of Washington
          County, let alone on the road from Boonsboro to Shepherdstown. Makes me
          wonder about the source for this statement. Is it footnoted?
          Keedysville was called Centreville by many locals, and even R.E. Lee.
          (Official name change in 1842 to accommodate the USPS) Maybe the
          author's source meant Centreville? Likewise for Cadesville, nothing by
          that name on the 1859 map of the county. And why are they called out to
          defend Longstreet's Ordnance train at 10:00 p.m. when the Union cavalry
          are not even to Sharpsburg at that time? Something is fishy about this
          source. If they're crossing the undamaged part of the train across the
          Williamsport ford at 7:00, a bare hour after sunrise, what time did they
          get there? How did they miss the Union column? Certainly from 10 at
          night to 6 or 7 in the morning, 8 hours to ride from someplace betweeen
          Boonsboro and Shepherdstown, sounds unrealistic. Also, if they are
          unsaddling at 10 p.m. along that road they should be seeing the first
          elements of Lee's retreating army streaming past. Wouldn't they
          logically be asked to scout ahead?
          Durn, this source creates more questions than it answers!

          >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 02/16/09 2:05 PM >>>
          Tom,

          This is all I found from "The Little Jeff: The Jeff Davis Legion,
          Cavalry Army of Northern Virginia," by Donald A Hopkins:

          "The Jeff Davis Legion camped the night of September 13, near
          Boonsboro on the west side of South Mountain. (94)... The Jeff Davis
          Legion rode south [the 14th] towards Harper's Ferry along the
          turnpike leading from Boonsboro toward Shepherstown, halting at a
          little village named Cedarville. They remained here for most of the
          day, watching the battle on South Mountain, and awaiting orders. (97)
          After waiting all day to move to the assistance of the infantry
          returning from Harper's Ferry, at about 10 P.M. the men of the Jeff
          Davis finally unsaddled their horses. Hardly had this been completed
          when they were ordered to remount and move out to defend Longstreet's
          wagons--except for a squadron from Company F which was sent to guard
          a bridge at Cadesville as Confederate infantry passed that point
          moving toward Sharpsburg. After dispersing the remaining Yankee
          cavalry from around the ordnance train, the Little Jeff, still
          detached from the rest of Hampton's Brigade, escorted the undamaged
          portion of the train southwestward toward Williamsport. It
          accompanied the train across the upper Potomac RIver at about 7 A.M.
          the next morning. From here the sleepy troopers continued their
          march, now southeastward to Shepherdstown, at which place they
          stopped and fed their horses...That afternoon the Jeff Davis Legion
          moved out about nine miles fronm town where they bivouacked for the
          night. The next day, September 16, Sparkman and his comrades moved
          back towards Maryland at a slow trot, crossing over the Potomac River
          near Sharpsburg about 4 P.M. (98).

          Larry F.


          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > While we're solving mysteries abouth te campaign, maybe someone can
          help
          > with this one. Below is a passage from Carman's chapter on Harpers
          > Ferry. Like much of the manuscript, it is not footnoted. Pierro
          does
          > not venture any thoughts on it at all. Allan Tischler's book on the
          > cavalry escape from HF does not include it, although Allan knew the
          > account was in Carman. He could find no evidence to corroborate
          it, and
          > neither can I. Yet it seems too detailed and genuine to think that
          > Carman just made it up; he just didn't do that sort of thing.
          Stuart's
          > OR report says he left the Jeff Davis Legion in Boonsboro on the
          morning
          > of the 14th, so how could they be with Hampton and cross at
          Brownsville
          > Gap? Hart's battery, as per Trout's book Galloping Thund> was with Hampton. If the JD Legion was in Boonsboro why does D.H.
          Hill
          > imply that he has no cavalry to do recon? Even if they were there
          in
          > the morning, they could easily be on Solomon's Gap by nightfall.
          Thus
          > the mystery! Col. W. T. Martin of the Legion made no after action
          > report, nor did Hart. Hampton's and Stuart's reports don't mention
          this
          > action, or splitting off the Legion at Brownsville Gap. There is a
          > modern regimental history of the JD Legion, but i do not have and
          am not
          > optimistic that it covers this action, but maybe.
          >
          > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
          >
          >
          > "The escaping Union cavalry narrowly missed another encounter, and
          this
          > with a regiment of Confederate cavalry and a light battery of six
          guns.
          > When Wade Hampton’s brigade of cavalry marched from
          Burkittsville, on
          > the morning of September 14, part of it went along the east base of
          > South Mountain to Knoxville on the Potomac, and picketed the roads
          > leading to Berlin and Frederick. Two regiments crossed Brownsville
          Gap
          > into Pleasant Valley one of these, the Jeff Davis Legion, with
          Hart’s
          > South Carolina Battery of six guns, was placed at Solomon’s Gap,
          in Elk
          > Ridge. Lieutenant Colonel W. T. Martin, commanding the regiment,
          threw
          > out pickets in the direction of the Potomac; some of these were
          > encountered and brushed away by the Union cavalry, about 10 p.m.,
          as it
          > neared the bridge spanning the Antietam near its mouth. This
          > information was quickly carried to Martin, who was surprised at the
          news
          > of an enemy in that direction, and after a hasty conference with
          some of
          > his officers
          > [p.355]
          > the conclusion was reached that McClellan’s left wing had
          interposed
          > between Jackson’s forces besieging Harpers Ferry and the
          Confederates at
          > Turner’s Gap, Boonsboro and Hagerstown.
          > Martin did not know the result of the day’s fighting at South
          Mountain
          > and his scout reported a large Union force south and west, he
          decided to
          > fall back towards Hagerstown and quickly set out in that direction,
          > throwing scouts to the crossroads to the left, that reported the
          Union
          > column, the cavalry from Harpers Ferry, moving parallel to him up
          the
          > Potomac. Hart placed some of his guns in advance to cover all
          > cross-roads and kept one or more at the rear of the column.
          Skirting
          > the east base of Elk Ridge, the column, leaving Keedysville to the
          > right, went over the Antietam by the bridge above Pry's Mill and,
          going
          > through Smoketown and Bakersville, came to Downsville, where, just
          > before sunrise, it was learned that the Union cavalry had passed
          that
          > point. From Downsville Martin followed rapidly after the retiring
          > force, and soon after sunrise saw the explosions from the burning
          of a
          > part of Longstreet's ordnance train, which had been intercepted.
          After
          > a short pursuit, past the burning wagons, Martin withdrew to
          > Williamsport, crossed the Potomac, went down the Virginia side,
          > recrossed the river at Shepherdstown Ford, on the afternoon of the
          16th
          > and rejoined his brigade at Sharpsburg on the 17th. "
          >
          >
          >
          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > Professor of History
          > Hagerstown Community College
          >
        • eighth_conn_inf
          Closest endnotes for p. 98 are Waring Papers, Southern Historical Collection, U.N.C., Chapel Hill, NC (Special Collections, J.F. Waring Papers, Collection
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 16, 2009
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            Closest endnotes for p. 98 are Waring Papers, Southern Historical
            Collection, U.N.C., Chapel Hill, NC (Special Collections, J.F. Waring
            Papers, Collection #1664. Gordon Family Papers, Collection #2235;
            James Keen Munnerlyn Letters, Collection #2797-Z); and Sparkman,
            Diary, U.S. Nat. Mil. Park, Manassas, VA, which is the next note.

            Interesting tidbit from Tischler: "Without stirring up the conflict
            between Hill and Stuart again, the security of the large parks lay
            upon the infantry's shoulders from the 10th until the afternoon of
            the 13th, Saturday, when Stuart let Hill know the finding of S.O. 191
            and the Federal advance, prompting Colquitt's Brigade and four guns
            to be marched up to the National Pike to the gap in time for their
            posting that evening. Augmenting them was Col. Thomas Rosser's
            dismounted 5th Virginia Cavalry, Pelham's Horse Artillery of two
            pieces, and what was left of Lt. Col. William Martin's Jeff Davis
            Legion with two pieces of Hart's horse artillery, left by Hampton
            Sunday morning, with an approxmate strength of 150 men." p. 93

            Maybe the remainder of Hart's battery, 4 guns, went to HF? I guess
            that the 150 refers to the total of Rosser, Pelham and the part of
            the JD? See also Tischler's notes on p. 244:

            "Brooks, "Stories of the Confederacy" p. 369. Sum of 77 men in Hart's
            Battery and 171 mentioned as being in the Jeff Davis Legion.

            Hampton reported in OR 19, 1 823, their detachment on the morning of
            the 14th presumably at Fox's Gap.

            Carmen, Chap VIII, p. 10 and in Chap VI p. 69-70. Carman claimend
            from an unidentified source that the Jeff Davis Legion went with
            Hampton and "was placed at Solomon's Gap" on Sunday morning, and from
            there was later involved in giving chase on the trail of the HF cav
            brigade. This may have meant to be Hampton's Escort, J. F. Waring
            Georgia Hussars."

            Larry F.


            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hmm, this is interesting. The directions and town names don't make
            > sense. South out of Boonsboro is towards HF more than it is towards
            > Shepherdstown. I know of no "Cedarville" in this end of Washington
            > County, let alone on the road from Boonsboro to Shepherdstown.
            Makes me
            > wonder about the source for this statement. Is it footnoted?
            > Keedysville was called Centreville by many locals, and even R.E.
            Lee.
            > (Official name change in 1842 to accommodate the USPS) Maybe the
            > author's source meant Centreville? Likewise for Cadesville,
            nothing by
            > that name on the 1859 map of the county. And why are they called
            out to
            > defend Longstreet's Ordnance train at 10:00 p.m. when the Union
            cavalry
            > are not even to Sharpsburg at that time? Something is fishy about
            this
            > source. If they're crossing the undamaged part of the train across
            the
            > Williamsport ford at 7:00, a bare hour after sunrise, what time did
            they
            > get there? How did they miss the Union column? Certainly from 10 at
            > night to 6 or 7 in the morning, 8 hours to ride from someplace
            betweeen
            > Boonsboro and Shepherdstown, sounds unrealistic. Also, if they are
            > unsaddling at 10 p.m. along that road they should be seeing the
            first
            > elements of Lee's retreating army streaming past. Wouldn't they
            > logically be asked to scout ahead?
            > Durn, this source creates more questions than it answers!
            >
            >
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Tom, Perhaps Cadesville is homophonic for Keedysville ? Larry F. ... Waring ... 191 ... Hart s ... of ... from ... make ... towards ... Washington ... about
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 16, 2009
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              Tom,

              Perhaps "Cadesville" is homophonic for "Keedysville"?

              Larry F.

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
              <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
              >
              > Closest endnotes for p. 98 are Waring Papers, Southern Historical
              > Collection, U.N.C., Chapel Hill, NC (Special Collections, J.F.
              Waring
              > Papers, Collection #1664. Gordon Family Papers, Collection #2235;
              > James Keen Munnerlyn Letters, Collection #2797-Z); and Sparkman,
              > Diary, U.S. Nat. Mil. Park, Manassas, VA, which is the next note.
              >
              > Interesting tidbit from Tischler: "Without stirring up the conflict
              > between Hill and Stuart again, the security of the large parks lay
              > upon the infantry's shoulders from the 10th until the afternoon of
              > the 13th, Saturday, when Stuart let Hill know the finding of S.O.
              191
              > and the Federal advance, prompting Colquitt's Brigade and four guns
              > to be marched up to the National Pike to the gap in time for their
              > posting that evening. Augmenting them was Col. Thomas Rosser's
              > dismounted 5th Virginia Cavalry, Pelham's Horse Artillery of two
              > pieces, and what was left of Lt. Col. William Martin's Jeff Davis
              > Legion with two pieces of Hart's horse artillery, left by Hampton
              > Sunday morning, with an approxmate strength of 150 men." p. 93
              >
              > Maybe the remainder of Hart's battery, 4 guns, went to HF? I guess
              > that the 150 refers to the total of Rosser, Pelham and the part of
              > the JD? See also Tischler's notes on p. 244:
              >
              > "Brooks, "Stories of the Confederacy" p. 369. Sum of 77 men in
              Hart's
              > Battery and 171 mentioned as being in the Jeff Davis Legion.
              >
              > Hampton reported in OR 19, 1 823, their detachment on the morning
              of
              > the 14th presumably at Fox's Gap.
              >
              > Carmen, Chap VIII, p. 10 and in Chap VI p. 69-70. Carman claimend
              > from an unidentified source that the Jeff Davis Legion went with
              > Hampton and "was placed at Solomon's Gap" on Sunday morning, and
              from
              > there was later involved in giving chase on the trail of the HF cav
              > brigade. This may have meant to be Hampton's Escort, J. F. Waring
              > Georgia Hussars."
              >
              > Larry F.
              >
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hmm, this is interesting. The directions and town names don't
              make
              > > sense. South out of Boonsboro is towards HF more than it is
              towards
              > > Shepherdstown. I know of no "Cedarville" in this end of
              Washington
              > > County, let alone on the road from Boonsboro to Shepherdstown.
              > Makes me
              > > wonder about the source for this statement. Is it footnoted?
              > > Keedysville was called Centreville by many locals, and even R.E.
              > Lee.
              > > (Official name change in 1842 to accommodate the USPS) Maybe the
              > > author's source meant Centreville? Likewise for Cadesville,
              > nothing by
              > > that name on the 1859 map of the county. And why are they called
              > out to
              > > defend Longstreet's Ordnance train at 10:00 p.m. when the Union
              > cavalry
              > > are not even to Sharpsburg at that time? Something is fishy
              about
              > this
              > > source. If they're crossing the undamaged part of the train
              across
              > the
              > > Williamsport ford at 7:00, a bare hour after sunrise, what time
              did
              > they
              > > get there? How did they miss the Union column? Certainly from 10
              at
              > > night to 6 or 7 in the morning, 8 hours to ride from someplace
              > betweeen
              > > Boonsboro and Shepherdstown, sounds unrealistic. Also, if they
              are
              > > unsaddling at 10 p.m. along that road they should be seeing the
              > first
              > > elements of Lee's retreating army streaming past. Wouldn't they
              > > logically be asked to scout ahead?
              > > Durn, this source creates more questions than it answers!
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Thomas Clemens
              That s my thought, but thanks for the footnote refernces. Nothing easy to check, durn it. And worse, (for me) how did Carman know this? I ll check my
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 16, 2009
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                That's my thought, but thanks for the footnote refernces. Nothing easy to check, durn it. And worse, (for me) how did Carman know this? I'll check my files, but I don't think any of these guys wrote to the Battlefield Board, so how does he know? Double durn!
                So maybe we're talking about a piece of the JD Legion and some of Hart's guns, although that is not what Carman said. It does seem to make sense though. Of course picketing from Solomon's Gap to the Potomac with "some" of a very small regiment is quite a feat, that is two miles or more. Pretty thin, don't you think?
                Thanks.

                >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 02/16/09 3:47 PM >>>
                Tom,

                Perhaps "Cadesville" is homophonic for "Keedysville"?

                Larry F.

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
                <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
                >
                > Closest endnotes for p. 98 are Waring Papers, Southern Historical
                > Collection, U.N.C., Chapel Hill, NC (Special Collections, J.F.
                Waring
                > Papers, Collection #1664. Gordon Family Papers, Collection #2235;
                > James Keen Munnerlyn Letters, Collection #2797-Z); and Sparkman,
                > Diary, U.S. Nat. Mil. Park, Manassas, VA, which is the next note.
                >
                > Interesting tidbit from Tischler: "Without stirring up the conflict
                > between Hill and Stuart again, the security of the large parks lay
                > upon the infantry's shoulders from the 10th until the afternoon of
                > the 13th, Saturday, when Stuart let Hill know the finding of S.O.
                191
                > and the Federal advance, prompting Colquitt's Brigade and four guns
                > to be marched up to the National Pike to the gap in time for their
                > posting that evening. Augmenting them was Col. Thomas Rosser's
                > dismounted 5th Virginia Cavalry, Pelham's Horse Artillery of two
                > pieces, and what was left of Lt. Col. William Martin's Jeff Davis
                > Legion with two pieces of Hart's horse artillery, left by Hampton
                > Sunday morning, with an approxmate strength of 150 men." p. 93
                >
                > Maybe the remainder of Hart's battery, 4 guns, went to HF? I guess
                > that the 150 refers to the total of Rosser, Pelham and the part of
                > the JD? See also Tischler's notes on p. 244:
                >
                > "Brooks, "Stories of the Confederacy" p. 369. Sum of 77 men in
                Hart's
                > Battery and 171 mentioned as being in the Jeff Davis Legion.
                >
                > Hampton reported in OR 19, 1 823, their detachment on the morning
                of
                > the 14th presumably at Fox's Gap.
                >
                > Carmen, Chap VIII, p. 10 and in Chap VI p. 69-70. Carman claimend
                > from an unidentified source that the Jeff Davis Legion went with
                > Hampton and "was placed at Solomon's Gap" on Sunday morning, and
                from
                > there was later involved in giving chase on the trail of the HF cav
                > brigade. This may have meant to be Hampton's Escort, J. F. Waring
                > Georgia Hussars."
                >
                > Larry F.
                >
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hmm, this is interesting. The directions and town names don't
                make
                > > sense. South out of Boonsboro is towards HF more than it is
                towards
                > > Shepherdstown. I know of no "Cedarville" in this end of
                Washington
                > > County, let alone on the road from Boonsboro to Shepherdstown.
                > Makes me
                > > wonder about the source for this statement. Is it footnoted?
                > > Keedysville was called Centreville by many locals, and even R.E.
                > Lee.
                > > (Official name change in 1842 to accommodate the USPS) Maybe the
                > > author's source meant Centreville? Likewise for Cadesville,
                > nothing by
                > > that name on the 1859 map of the county. And why are they called
                > out to
                > > defend Longstreet's Ordnance train at 10:00 p.m. when the Union
                > cavalry
                > > are not even to Sharpsburg at that time? Something is fishy
                about
                > this
                > > source. If they're crossing the undamaged part of the train
                across
                > the
                > > Williamsport ford at 7:00, a bare hour after sunrise, what time
                did
                > they
                > > get there? How did they miss the Union column? Certainly from 10
                at
                > > night to 6 or 7 in the morning, 8 hours to ride from someplace
                > betweeen
                > > Boonsboro and Shepherdstown, sounds unrealistic. Also, if they
                are
                > > unsaddling at 10 p.m. along that road they should be seeing the
                > first
                > > elements of Lee's retreating army streaming past. Wouldn't they
                > > logically be asked to scout ahead?
                > > Durn, this source creates more questions than it answers!
                > >
                > >
                >
              • eighth_conn_inf
                Tom, Perhaps folks who have access to the sources could let us know? It seems then that a section of Hart s Battery at least initially went with the JD Legion
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 16, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Tom,

                  Perhaps folks who have access to the sources could let us know?

                  It seems then that a section of Hart's Battery at least initially
                  went with the JD Legion into Pleasant Valley--maybe the other 4 guns
                  joined Martin later? Looks like someone has to go thru letters from
                  Hart's Battery members.

                  If the JD Legion had about 170 effectives, maybe a few pickets could
                  have been far afield from their "HQ" at Solomon's Gap? If I am
                  measuring correctly and properly locating Solomon's Gap, the straight
                  line distance to the mouth of Antietam Creek is 4 miles. Is Solomon's
                  Gap between BM 1519 and BM 1476 on Elk Ridge on the USGS Keedysville
                  Quadrangle map?

                  Larry F.


                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > That's my thought, but thanks for the footnote refernces. Nothing
                  easy to check, durn it. And worse, (for me) how did Carman know
                  this? I'll check my files, but I don't think any of these guys
                  wrote to the Battlefield Board, so how does he know? Double durn!
                  > So maybe we're talking about a piece of the JD Legion and some of
                  Hart's guns, although that is not what Carman said. It does seem to
                  make sense though. Of course picketing from Solomon's Gap to the
                  Potomac with "some" of a very small regiment is quite a feat, that is
                  two miles or more. Pretty thin, don't you think?
                  > Thanks.
                  >
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