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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification in CS Army

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  • Dave
    Poking around in Google Books, I found a few references to CSA hospital flags, all yellow. Southern Literary Messenger, 1863 describing the yellow flag as a
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 31, 2009
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      Poking around in Google Books, I found a few references to CSA hospital
      flags, all yellow. Southern Literary Messenger, 1863 describing the
      yellow flag as a "...well known sign of a hospital among military men."
      The Moultrie House flew a yellow flag during the bombardment of Ft.
      Sumter in B&L I: 38. The yellow flag was flown in Fla during 1861 in the
      Mil History of Fla p. 37.

      Lots of other references, but they don't bother with the color because
      they figure we all know, it's so obvious.

      Dave McGowan

      Richard Weghorst wrote:
      >
      > Nice call, Adam. On p. 692 of Battles and Leaders, Mary Bedinger
      > Mitchell states, "Some one [sic] suggested that yellow was the
      > hospital color, and immediately everybody who could lay hands upon a
      > yellow rag hoisted it over the house. The whole town was a hospital;
      > there was scarcely a building that could not with truth seek
      > protection under that plea, and the fantastic little strips were soon
      > flaunting their ineffectual remonstrance from every roof-tree and
      > chimney..."
      >
      > Richard Weghorst
      >
      > Adam Zimmerli <azimmerli@... <mailto:azimmerli%40hotmail.com>>
      > wrote:
      > I thought that I saw somewhere in Mary Bedinger Mitchell's account of
      > the battle that people in Shepherdstown used yellow flags. I don't
      > have my Battles and Leaders in front of me, so I can't quote from the
      > article, but I think that vol. II has the story.
      >
      > Adam Zimmerli
      >
      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "cowie_steve" <cowie_steve@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Gerry,
      > >
      > > Sorry---there was nothing else mentioned. The only other reference to
      > > a CS hospital flag in McGrath's book is from a York Times
      > > correspondent, who was present during the initial Federal cavalry
      > > occupation of Sharpsburg on 9/19 (the article itself was published on
      > > 9/25). The excerpt is:
      > >
      > > “[We] dashed on a hurried trot through Sharpsburg. There was firing
      > > from batteries in front, and dead horses lay in the fields along the
      > > road. Hospital flags waved from chimney tops, where the Rebel wounded
      > > were left. Camps, but just deserted, with fires still smoking, were
      > > seen on each side, but there was no particular evidence of haste in
      > > their mode of departure.�
      > >
      > > Steve
      > >
      > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Steve,
      > > >
      > > > Did the book seem to indicate this was common practice?
      > > >
      > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      > > >
      > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: "cowie_steve" <cowie_steve@>
      > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
      > > > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:07 PM
      > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification in CS
      > > > Army
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Gerry,
      > > >
      > > > McGrath mentions in "Last Clash" that Shepherdstown's CS
      > > > hospitals
      > > > after Antietam were marked by yellow flags posted on the roofs.
      > > > No
      > > > other details were provided.
      > > >
      > > > Best,
      > > >
      > > > Steve
      > > >
      > > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Gang,
      > > > >
      > > > > Can anyone tell me quickly what the CS Army would have used as
      > > > > a
      > > > > flag to identify a hospital? IIRC the Union Armies used a
      > > > > yellow
      > > > > flag with a green H in the center; however, I am not sure what
      > > > > the Confederacy would have used.
      > > > >
      > > > > If the information is in the relevant CS Regulations, just
      > > > > point
      > > > > me to where and I can go look therein.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks!
      > > > >
      > > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      > > > >
      > > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
      > > > > from
      > > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Dave, Both your emails...this one and the private one...received. What you state makes sense to me. Yellow flag, without any adornment, works for me.
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 31, 2009
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        Dear Dave,

        Both your emails...this one and the private one...received. What
        you state makes sense to me.

        Yellow flag, without any adornment, works for me.

        Thanks!

        (Adam, thank you also!)

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Dave" <gewehr@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:47 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification
        in CS Army


        > Poking around in Google Books, I found a few references to CSA
        > hospital
        > flags, all yellow. Southern Literary Messenger, 1863 describing
        > the
        > yellow flag as a "...well known sign of a hospital among
        > military men."
        > The Moultrie House flew a yellow flag during the bombardment of
        > Ft.
        > Sumter in B&L I: 38. The yellow flag was flown in Fla during
        > 1861 in the
        > Mil History of Fla p. 37.
        >
        > Lots of other references, but they don't bother with the color
        > because
        > they figure we all know, it's so obvious.
        >
        > Dave McGowan
        >
        > Richard Weghorst wrote:
        >>
        >> Nice call, Adam. On p. 692 of Battles and Leaders, Mary
        >> Bedinger
        >> Mitchell states, "Some one [sic] suggested that yellow was the
        >> hospital color, and immediately everybody who could lay hands
        >> upon a
        >> yellow rag hoisted it over the house. The whole town was a
        >> hospital;
        >> there was scarcely a building that could not with truth seek
        >> protection under that plea, and the fantastic little strips
        >> were soon
        >> flaunting their ineffectual remonstrance from every roof-tree
        >> and
        >> chimney..."
        >>
        >> Richard Weghorst
        >>
        >> Adam Zimmerli <azimmerli@...
        >> <mailto:azimmerli%40hotmail.com>>
        >> wrote:
        >> I thought that I saw somewhere in Mary Bedinger Mitchell's
        >> account of
        >> the battle that people in Shepherdstown used yellow flags. I
        >> don't
        >> have my Battles and Leaders in front of me, so I can't quote
        >> from the
        >> article, but I think that vol. II has the story.
        >>
        >> Adam Zimmerli
        >>
        >> --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "cowie_steve"
        >> <cowie_steve@...>
        >> wrote:
        >> >
        >> > Gerry,
        >> >
        >> > Sorry---there was nothing else mentioned. The only other
        >> > reference to
        >> > a CS hospital flag in McGrath's book is from a York Times
        >> > correspondent, who was present during the initial Federal
        >> > cavalry
        >> > occupation of Sharpsburg on 9/19 (the article itself was
        >> > published on
        >> > 9/25). The excerpt is:
        >> >
        >> > “[We] dashed on a hurried trot through Sharpsburg. There
        >> > was firing
        >> > from batteries in front, and dead horses lay in the fields
        >> > along the
        >> > road. Hospital flags waved from chimney tops, where the
        >> > Rebel wounded
        >> > were left. Camps, but just deserted, with fires still
        >> > smoking, were
        >> > seen on each side, but there was no particular evidence of
        >> > haste in
        >> > their mode of departure.�
        >> >
        >> > Steve
        >> >
        >> > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "G E Mayers"
        >> <gerry1952@> wrote:
        >> > >
        >> > > Steve,
        >> > >
        >> > > Did the book seem to indicate this was common practice?
        >> > >
        >> > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        >> > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >> > >
        >> > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
        >> > > even
        >> > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
        >> > > the
        >> > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a
        >> > > benediction from
        >> > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        >> > > ----- Original Message -----
        >> > > From: "cowie_steve" <cowie_steve@>
        >> > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
        >> > > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:07 PM
        >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site
        >> > > identification in CS
        >> > > Army
        >> > >
        >> > >
        >> > > Gerry,
        >> > >
        >> > > McGrath mentions in "Last Clash" that Shepherdstown's CS
        >> > > hospitals
        >> > > after Antietam were marked by yellow flags posted on the
        >> > > roofs.
        >> > > No
        >> > > other details were provided.
        >> > >
        >> > > Best,
        >> > >
        >> > > Steve
        >> > >
        >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "G E Mayers"
        >> <gerry1952@>
        >> > > wrote:
        >> > > >
        >> > > > Gang,
        >> > > >
        >> > > > Can anyone tell me quickly what the CS Army would have
        >> > > > used as
        >> > > > a
        >> > > > flag to identify a hospital? IIRC the Union Armies used
        >> > > > a
        >> > > > yellow
        >> > > > flag with a green H in the center; however, I am not
        >> > > > sure what
        >> > > > the Confederacy would have used.
        >> > > >
        >> > > > If the information is in the relevant CS Regulations,
        >> > > > just
        >> > > > point
        >> > > > me to where and I can go look therein.
        >> > > >
        >> > > > Thanks!
        >> > > >
        >> > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        >> > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >> > > >
        >> > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption,
        >> > > > or even
        >> > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state
        >> > > > in the
        >> > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a
        >> > > > benediction
        >> > > > from
        >> > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        >> > > >
        >> > >
        >> >
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • flagflop
        Gerry, 1862 and 1863 CS Army Regs, para 714, specify red. (Same in US Army Revised Regs 1861, para 736 as marker for the ambulance depot. ) However, I see in
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2009
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          Gerry,

          1862 and 1863 CS Army Regs, para 714, specify red. (Same in US Army
          Revised Regs 1861, para 736 as marker for "the ambulance depot.")
          However, I see in Philip Katcher's 1994 "The Army of Robert E. Lee,"
          p. 170, citing J.O. Casler of Stonewall Brigade, that in the ANV
          hospitals were marked with yellow, rather than red.

          Dave Gaddy

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Gang,
          >
          > Can anyone tell me quickly what the CS Army would have used as a
          > flag to identify a hospital? IIRC the Union Armies used a yellow
          > flag with a green H in the center; however, I am not sure what
          > the Confederacy would have used.
          >
          > If the information is in the relevant CS Regulations, just point
          > me to where and I can go look therein.
          >
          > Thanks!
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          >
        • G E Mayers
          Dear Dave, Thanks for all the info. I do have a facsimile copy of the 1863 revision of the Regulations for the Army of the Confederate States and was fairly
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 1, 2009
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            Dear Dave,

            Thanks for all the info. I do have a facsimile copy of the 1863
            revision of the "Regulations for the Army of the Confederate
            States" and was fairly sure the specific color was indeed red. I
            also have an electronic copy of the respective US Army
            Regulations.

            However, there is documentation the Union Army used a yellow
            rectangular flag with a large green H in the center. And, as you
            cite Phil Katcher (who is truly quite knowledgeable about the
            ANVa), that sounds pretty convincing to me.

            Would wonder if there were any General Orders from the War
            Department in Richmond, either via the Adjutant and Inspector
            General 's Office or the Medical Bureau modifying the stated
            regulations?

            I also have a copy of J. Boone Bartholmees's excellent work "Buff
            Facings and Gilt Buttons: Staff and Headquarters Operations in
            the Army of Northern Virginia: 1861-1865", which does state the A
            & IGO _did_ modify the regulations as published in the official
            regulations books by means of General Orders.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "flagflop" <dwgaddy@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 2:55 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification in CS
            Army


            Gerry,

            1862 and 1863 CS Army Regs, para 714, specify red. (Same in US
            Army
            Revised Regs 1861, para 736 as marker for "the ambulance depot.")
            However, I see in Philip Katcher's 1994 "The Army of Robert E.
            Lee,"
            p. 170, citing J.O. Casler of Stonewall Brigade, that in the ANV
            hospitals were marked with yellow, rather than red.

            Dave Gaddy

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers"
            <gerry1952@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Gang,
            >
            > Can anyone tell me quickly what the CS Army would have used as
            > a
            > flag to identify a hospital? IIRC the Union Armies used a
            > yellow
            > flag with a green H in the center; however, I am not sure what
            > the Confederacy would have used.
            >
            > If the information is in the relevant CS Regulations, just
            > point
            > me to where and I can go look therein.
            >
            > Thanks!
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            >
          • Dave
            Gerry and Dave, the citations I found for the yellow flag were for a field hospital, and were very early in the war. I did find a citation for a red flag on a
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 1, 2009
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              Gerry and Dave, the citations I found for the yellow flag were for a
              field hospital, and were very early in the war. I did find a citation
              for a red flag on a ANV hospital ambulance. The quote I cited
              previously, that any soldier would recognize the yellow flag as a
              hospital, leads me to think that yellow was the normal flag color at
              that time. But, it's only a guess. Since one of the quotes was from
              Sumter, was the yellow flag standard for a field hospital in the pre-war
              army, and later changed by both sides? Would a field hospital and a
              main hospital have different color flags?

              Maybe you could contact the folks at the Pry house. The gentleman in
              there is very helpful and may have connections with the main ACW medical
              museum. I spent an enjoyable hour picking his brain in October, but
              never caught his name.

              Dave McGowan

              G E Mayers wrote:
              >
              > Dear Dave,
              >
              > Thanks for all the info. I do have a facsimile copy of the 1863
              > revision of the "Regulations for the Army of the Confederate
              > States" and was fairly sure the specific color was indeed red. I
              > also have an electronic copy of the respective US Army
              > Regulations.
              >
              > However, there is documentation the Union Army used a yellow
              > rectangular flag with a large green H in the center. And, as you
              > cite Phil Katcher (who is truly quite knowledgeable about the
              > ANVa), that sounds pretty convincing to me.
              >
              > Would wonder if there were any General Orders from the War
              > Department in Richmond, either via the Adjutant and Inspector
              > General 's Office or the Medical Bureau modifying the stated
              > regulations?
              >
              > I also have a copy of J. Boone Bartholmees's excellent work "Buff
              > Facings and Gilt Buttons: Staff and Headquarters Operations in
              > the Army of Northern Virginia: 1861-1865", which does state the A
              > & IGO _did_ modify the regulations as published in the official
              > regulations books by means of General Orders.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "flagflop" <dwgaddy@... <mailto:dwgaddy%40verizon.net>>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>>
              > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 2:55 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification in CS
              > Army
              >
              > Gerry,
              >
              > 1862 and 1863 CS Army Regs, para 714, specify red. (Same in US
              > Army
              > Revised Regs 1861, para 736 as marker for "the ambulance depot.")
              > However, I see in Philip Katcher's 1994 "The Army of Robert E.
              > Lee,"
              > p. 170, citing J.O. Casler of Stonewall Brigade, that in the ANV
              > hospitals were marked with yellow, rather than red.
              >
              > Dave Gaddy
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "G E Mayers"
              > <gerry1952@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Gang,
              > >
              > > Can anyone tell me quickly what the CS Army would have used as
              > > a
              > > flag to identify a hospital? IIRC the Union Armies used a
              > > yellow
              > > flag with a green H in the center; however, I am not sure what
              > > the Confederacy would have used.
              > >
              > > If the information is in the relevant CS Regulations, just
              > > point
              > > me to where and I can go look therein.
              > >
              > > Thanks!
              > >
              > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              > >
              > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > > from
              > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > >
              >
              >
            • flagflop
              Gerry and T other Dave, Check out two postings by Tom Martin (Piedmont Flag Company) on the Civil War Flags Message Board, his 8665 of 3 Dec and his follow-up,
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 2, 2009
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                Gerry and T'other Dave,

                Check out two postings by Tom Martin (Piedmont Flag Company) on the
                Civil War Flags Message Board, his 8665 of 3 Dec and his follow-up,
                msg 8670 of 5 Dec 2008, the latter at http://history-sites.com/cgi-
                bin/bbs53x/cwflags/webbbs_config.pl?read=8670--- Per his extensive
                research, he points out all of the complications -- that red
                (probably from European precedent) had been specified in regs, and
                that yellow was the quarantine flag. He goes on to note variations in
                usage by area, time period, commanding general, military vs. civilian
                doctors, hospital organization vs. ambulance corps, and other facets.

                Dave Gaddy
                -----------------------------
                In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                >
                > Gerry and Dave, the citations I found for the yellow flag were for
                a
                > field hospital, and were very early in the war. I did find a
                citation
                > for a red flag on a ANV hospital ambulance. The quote I cited
                > previously, that any soldier would recognize the yellow flag as a
                > hospital, leads me to think that yellow was the normal flag color
                at
                > that time. But, it's only a guess. Since one of the quotes was
                from
                > Sumter, was the yellow flag standard for a field hospital in the
                pre-war
                > army, and later changed by both sides? Would a field hospital and
                a
                > main hospital have different color flags?
                >
                > Maybe you could contact the folks at the Pry house. The gentleman
                in
                > there is very helpful and may have connections with the main ACW
                medical
                > museum. I spent an enjoyable hour picking his brain in October,
                but
                > never caught his name.
                >
                > Dave McGowan
                >
                > G E Mayers wrote:
                > >
                > > Dear Dave,
                > >
                > > Thanks for all the info. I do have a facsimile copy of the 1863
                > > revision of the "Regulations for the Army of the Confederate
                > > States" and was fairly sure the specific color was indeed red. I
                > > also have an electronic copy of the respective US Army
                > > Regulations.
                > >
                > > However, there is documentation the Union Army used a yellow
                > > rectangular flag with a large green H in the center. And, as you
                > > cite Phil Katcher (who is truly quite knowledgeable about the
                > > ANVa), that sounds pretty convincing to me.
                > >
                > > Would wonder if there were any General Orders from the War
                > > Department in Richmond, either via the Adjutant and Inspector
                > > General 's Office or the Medical Bureau modifying the stated
                > > regulations?
                > >
                > > I also have a copy of J. Boone Bartholmees's excellent work "Buff
                > > Facings and Gilt Buttons: Staff and Headquarters Operations in
                > > the Army of Northern Virginia: 1861-1865", which does state the A
                > > & IGO _did_ modify the regulations as published in the official
                > > regulations books by means of General Orders.
                > >
                > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > >
                > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "flagflop" <dwgaddy@... <mailto:dwgaddy%40verizon.net>>
                > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TalkAntietam%
                40yahoogroups.com>>
                > > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 2:55 PM
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification in CS
                > > Army
                > >
                > > Gerry,
                > >
                > > 1862 and 1863 CS Army Regs, para 714, specify red. (Same in US
                > > Army
                > > Revised Regs 1861, para 736 as marker for "the ambulance depot.")
                > > However, I see in Philip Katcher's 1994 "The Army of Robert E.
                > > Lee,"
                > > p. 170, citing J.O. Casler of Stonewall Brigade, that in the ANV
                > > hospitals were marked with yellow, rather than red.
                > >
                > > Dave Gaddy
                > >
                > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "G E Mayers"
                > > <gerry1952@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Gang,
                > > >
                > > > Can anyone tell me quickly what the CS Army would have used as
                > > > a
                > > > flag to identify a hospital? IIRC the Union Armies used a
                > > > yellow
                > > > flag with a green H in the center; however, I am not sure what
                > > > the Confederacy would have used.
                > > >
                > > > If the information is in the relevant CS Regulations, just
                > > > point
                > > > me to where and I can go look therein.
                > > >
                > > > Thanks!
                > > >
                > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > > >
                > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > > > from
                > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • eighth_conn_inf
                Dave, Excellent info on that link, thank you. I now have another bookmark, too. Larry F. ... in ... civilian ... facets. ... for ... and ... gentleman ... work
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 3, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dave,

                  Excellent info on that link, thank you. I now have another bookmark,
                  too.

                  Larry F.

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "flagflop" <dwgaddy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Gerry and T'other Dave,
                  >
                  > Check out two postings by Tom Martin (Piedmont Flag Company) on the
                  > Civil War Flags Message Board, his 8665 of 3 Dec and his follow-up,
                  > msg 8670 of 5 Dec 2008, the latter at http://history-sites.com/cgi-
                  > bin/bbs53x/cwflags/webbbs_config.pl?read=8670--- Per his extensive
                  > research, he points out all of the complications -- that red
                  > (probably from European precedent) had been specified in regs, and
                  > that yellow was the quarantine flag. He goes on to note variations
                  in
                  > usage by area, time period, commanding general, military vs.
                  civilian
                  > doctors, hospital organization vs. ambulance corps, and other
                  facets.
                  >
                  > Dave Gaddy
                  > -----------------------------
                  > In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Gerry and Dave, the citations I found for the yellow flag were
                  for
                  > a
                  > > field hospital, and were very early in the war. I did find a
                  > citation
                  > > for a red flag on a ANV hospital ambulance. The quote I cited
                  > > previously, that any soldier would recognize the yellow flag as a
                  > > hospital, leads me to think that yellow was the normal flag color
                  > at
                  > > that time. But, it's only a guess. Since one of the quotes was
                  > from
                  > > Sumter, was the yellow flag standard for a field hospital in the
                  > pre-war
                  > > army, and later changed by both sides? Would a field hospital
                  and
                  > a
                  > > main hospital have different color flags?
                  > >
                  > > Maybe you could contact the folks at the Pry house. The
                  gentleman
                  > in
                  > > there is very helpful and may have connections with the main ACW
                  > medical
                  > > museum. I spent an enjoyable hour picking his brain in October,
                  > but
                  > > never caught his name.
                  > >
                  > > Dave McGowan
                  > >
                  > > G E Mayers wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Dear Dave,
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for all the info. I do have a facsimile copy of the 1863
                  > > > revision of the "Regulations for the Army of the Confederate
                  > > > States" and was fairly sure the specific color was indeed red. I
                  > > > also have an electronic copy of the respective US Army
                  > > > Regulations.
                  > > >
                  > > > However, there is documentation the Union Army used a yellow
                  > > > rectangular flag with a large green H in the center. And, as you
                  > > > cite Phil Katcher (who is truly quite knowledgeable about the
                  > > > ANVa), that sounds pretty convincing to me.
                  > > >
                  > > > Would wonder if there were any General Orders from the War
                  > > > Department in Richmond, either via the Adjutant and Inspector
                  > > > General 's Office or the Medical Bureau modifying the stated
                  > > > regulations?
                  > > >
                  > > > I also have a copy of J. Boone Bartholmees's excellent
                  work "Buff
                  > > > Facings and Gilt Buttons: Staff and Headquarters Operations in
                  > > > the Army of Northern Virginia: 1861-1865", which does state the
                  A
                  > > > & IGO _did_ modify the regulations as published in the official
                  > > > regulations books by means of General Orders.
                  > > >
                  > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > > >
                  > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: "flagflop" <dwgaddy@ <mailto:dwgaddy%40verizon.net>>
                  > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TalkAntietam%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>>
                  > > > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 2:55 PM
                  > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification in
                  CS
                  > > > Army
                  > > >
                  > > > Gerry,
                  > > >
                  > > > 1862 and 1863 CS Army Regs, para 714, specify red. (Same in US
                  > > > Army
                  > > > Revised Regs 1861, para 736 as marker for "the ambulance
                  depot.")
                  > > > However, I see in Philip Katcher's 1994 "The Army of Robert E.
                  > > > Lee,"
                  > > > p. 170, citing J.O. Casler of Stonewall Brigade, that in the ANV
                  > > > hospitals were marked with yellow, rather than red.
                  > > >
                  > > > Dave Gaddy
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "G E Mayers"
                  > > > <gerry1952@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Gang,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Can anyone tell me quickly what the CS Army would have used as
                  > > > > a
                  > > > > flag to identify a hospital? IIRC the Union Armies used a
                  > > > > yellow
                  > > > > flag with a green H in the center; however, I am not sure what
                  > > > > the Confederacy would have used.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > If the information is in the relevant CS Regulations, just
                  > > > > point
                  > > > > me to where and I can go look therein.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thanks!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > > > >
                  > > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                  even
                  > > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > > > > from
                  > > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Dave, Good info on that post! However, re the yellow flagged hospitals vs the red flag ones...IIRC both armies had to resort to using contracted surgeons,
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 3, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Dave,

                    Good info on that post! However, re the yellow flagged hospitals
                    vs the red flag ones...IIRC both armies had to resort to using
                    contracted surgeons, largely civilians, to help handle the
                    massive influx of wounded and dying that would require medical
                    attention after each major battle.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "flagflop" <dwgaddy@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:40 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification in CS
                    Army


                    Gerry and T'other Dave,

                    Check out two postings by Tom Martin (Piedmont Flag Company) on
                    the
                    Civil War Flags Message Board, his 8665 of 3 Dec and his
                    follow-up,
                    msg 8670 of 5 Dec 2008, the latter at
                    http://history-sites.com/cgi-
                    bin/bbs53x/cwflags/webbbs_config.pl?read=8670--- Per his
                    extensive
                    research, he points out all of the complications -- that red
                    (probably from European precedent) had been specified in regs,
                    and
                    that yellow was the quarantine flag. He goes on to note
                    variations in
                    usage by area, time period, commanding general, military vs.
                    civilian
                    doctors, hospital organization vs. ambulance corps, and other
                    facets.

                    Dave Gaddy
                    -----------------------------
                    In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Gerry and Dave, the citations I found for the yellow flag were
                    > for
                    a
                    > field hospital, and were very early in the war. I did find a
                    citation
                    > for a red flag on a ANV hospital ambulance. The quote I cited
                    > previously, that any soldier would recognize the yellow flag as
                    > a
                    > hospital, leads me to think that yellow was the normal flag
                    > color
                    at
                    > that time. But, it's only a guess. Since one of the quotes
                    > was
                    from
                    > Sumter, was the yellow flag standard for a field hospital in
                    > the
                    pre-war
                    > army, and later changed by both sides? Would a field hospital
                    > and
                    a
                    > main hospital have different color flags?
                    >
                    > Maybe you could contact the folks at the Pry house. The
                    > gentleman
                    in
                    > there is very helpful and may have connections with the main
                    > ACW
                    medical
                    > museum. I spent an enjoyable hour picking his brain in
                    > October,
                    but
                    > never caught his name.
                    >
                    > Dave McGowan
                    >
                    > G E Mayers wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dear Dave,
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for all the info. I do have a facsimile copy of the
                    > > 1863
                    > > revision of the "Regulations for the Army of the Confederate
                    > > States" and was fairly sure the specific color was indeed
                    > > red. I
                    > > also have an electronic copy of the respective US Army
                    > > Regulations.
                    > >
                    > > However, there is documentation the Union Army used a yellow
                    > > rectangular flag with a large green H in the center. And, as
                    > > you
                    > > cite Phil Katcher (who is truly quite knowledgeable about the
                    > > ANVa), that sounds pretty convincing to me.
                    > >
                    > > Would wonder if there were any General Orders from the War
                    > > Department in Richmond, either via the Adjutant and Inspector
                    > > General 's Office or the Medical Bureau modifying the stated
                    > > regulations?
                    > >
                    > > I also have a copy of J. Boone Bartholmees's excellent work
                    > > "Buff
                    > > Facings and Gilt Buttons: Staff and Headquarters Operations
                    > > in
                    > > the Army of Northern Virginia: 1861-1865", which does state
                    > > the A
                    > > & IGO _did_ modify the regulations as published in the
                    > > official
                    > > regulations books by means of General Orders.
                    > >
                    > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    > >
                    > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                    > > even
                    > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                    > > the
                    > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    > > from
                    > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "flagflop" <dwgaddy@... <mailto:dwgaddy%40verizon.net>>
                    > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TalkAntietam%
                    40yahoogroups.com>>
                    > > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 2:55 PM
                    > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Hospital site identification
                    > > in CS
                    > > Army
                    > >
                    > > Gerry,
                    > >
                    > > 1862 and 1863 CS Army Regs, para 714, specify red. (Same in
                    > > US
                    > > Army
                    > > Revised Regs 1861, para 736 as marker for "the ambulance
                    > > depot.")
                    > > However, I see in Philip Katcher's 1994 "The Army of Robert
                    > > E.
                    > > Lee,"
                    > > p. 170, citing J.O. Casler of Stonewall Brigade, that in the
                    > > ANV
                    > > hospitals were marked with yellow, rather than red.
                    > >
                    > > Dave Gaddy
                    > >
                    > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "G E Mayers"
                    > > <gerry1952@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Gang,
                    > > >
                    > > > Can anyone tell me quickly what the CS Army would have used
                    > > > as
                    > > > a
                    > > > flag to identify a hospital? IIRC the Union Armies used a
                    > > > yellow
                    > > > flag with a green H in the center; however, I am not sure
                    > > > what
                    > > > the Confederacy would have used.
                    > > >
                    > > > If the information is in the relevant CS Regulations, just
                    > > > point
                    > > > me to where and I can go look therein.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks!
                    > > >
                    > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    > > >
                    > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                    > > > even
                    > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                    > > > the
                    > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    > > > from
                    > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
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