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Re: [TalkAntietam] re Sorrel's wounding at Antietam and "Battery Longstreet"

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  • G E Mayers
    Dean, The galloped up comment...hmm... I wonder where he got that? I do know that the morning of September 16 was possibly the earliest Lee could return to
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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      Dean,

      The galloped up comment...hmm... I wonder where he got that? I do
      know that the morning of September 16 was possibly the earliest
      Lee could return to Traveller's back. He is seen as being on
      horse on the morning of September 17th but being led by an
      orderly. Joe Harsh pretty convincingly lays out, IMHO, Lee's
      continued lack of mobility even with being able to somewhat ride
      his horse. Based on what Harsh writes and as a result of his
      research, I highly doubt Lee was in any shape to do any galloping
      of any kind.

      So could this be another glaring error by Priest?

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:27 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Sorrel's wounding at Antietam and
      "Battery Longstreet"


      > Gerry,
      >
      > On Jan 9, 2009, at 11:20 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
      >
      >> Thanks! I knew Battery Longstreet was after the Federals
      >> cracked
      >> through the Sunken Road, but was trying to figure out the
      >> Cooke
      >> counter attack timing.
      >
      > FWIW, the charge shows up on the 12 noon Carmen-Cope map
      > (supported
      > on it's right flank by what's left of Cobb's Bde, I did not
      > know that).
      >
      >>
      >>
      >> If you have Priest's Antietam book, if you look on page 198,
      >> which sparked my question. Also, I think there is a most
      >> glaring
      >> error there as well re General Lee. From everything I have
      >> read,
      >> Lee could barely ride Traveller, let alone gallop with him....
      >
      > Interesting... what's the source for the "galloped up in spite
      > of his
      > hands" comment?
      >
      > Dean
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • Dean Essig
      ... While that might be the case, it could also be an exaggeration written by the historical observer instead. I m not big on Priest s books, but I wouldn t be
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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        On Jan 9, 2009, at 11:30 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

        > So could this be another glaring error by Priest?

        While that might be the case, it could also be an exaggeration
        written by the historical observer instead.

        I'm not big on Priest's books, but I wouldn't be too quick to drop
        this at his feet.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • DPowell334@AOL.COM
        I d like to see the original cite - IMO Priest will use anecdotes if they sound good without checking to see how they make sense with the larger picture. will
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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          I'd like to see the original cite - IMO Priest will use anecdotes if they
          sound good without checking to see how they make sense with the larger picture.

          will have to check when I get home...

          Dave Powell


          In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:30:55 A.M. Central Standard Time,
          gerry1952@... writes:

          Dean,

          The galloped up comment...hmm... I wonder where he got that? I do
          know that the morning of September 16 was possibly the earliest
          Lee could return to Traveller's back. He is seen as being on
          horse on the morning of September 17th but being led by an
          orderly. Joe Harsh pretty convincingly lays out, IMHO, Lee's
          continued lack of mobility even with being able to somewhat ride
          his horse. Based on what Harsh writes and as a result of his
          research, I highly doubt Lee was in any shape to do any galloping
          of any kind.

          So could this be another glaring error by Priest?

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers


          **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
          headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • DPowell334@AOL.COM
          When I write, I like to take note of such inconsistencies, either in a footnote or in the text itself. I might still use the quote, but with a caveat. It also
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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            When I write, I like to take note of such inconsistencies, either in a
            footnote or in the text itself. I might still use the quote, but with a caveat.

            It also gives you the chance to check on the historical accuracy of the
            original observer - could he see what he said he saw?

            That's the historian's job, to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I know I
            can string together dozens of quotes from other battles that directly
            contradict each other - but that would make for a very confusing narrative.

            Dave Powell


            In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:33:33 A.M. Central Standard Time,
            d.essig@... writes:

            While that might be the case, it could also be an exaggeration
            written by the historical observer instead.

            I'm not big on Priest's books, but I wouldn't be too quick to drop
            this at his feet.


            **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
            headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Dave; What you cite about Priest is pretty much how I see it too. I have, in the past, noticed where his cited footnote source does not square with the
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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              Dear Dave;

              What you cite about Priest is pretty much how I see it too. I
              have, in the past, noticed where his cited footnote source does
              not square with the text itself. To me that is sloppy authorship
              and research.

              That is not to say that perhaps Lee might have ridden up to Cooke
              and made the comment, but I highly suspect Lee would have
              galloped up! First of all, for that early in his tenure as
              commanding general of the ANVa, I do not think that was his
              style. For Longstreet, I could see it but not, IMHO, Lee.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <DPowell334@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:33 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Sorrel's wounding at Antietam and
              "Battery Longstreet"


              > I'd like to see the original cite - IMO Priest will use
              > anecdotes if they
              > sound good without checking to see how they make sense with the
              > larger picture.
              >
              > will have to check when I get home...
              >
              > Dave Powell
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:30:55 A.M. Central Standard
              > Time,
              > gerry1952@... writes:
              >
              > Dean,
              >
              > The galloped up comment...hmm... I wonder where he got that? I
              > do
              > know that the morning of September 16 was possibly the earliest
              > Lee could return to Traveller's back. He is seen as being on
              > horse on the morning of September 17th but being led by an
              > orderly. Joe Harsh pretty convincingly lays out, IMHO, Lee's
              > continued lack of mobility even with being able to somewhat
              > ride
              > his horse. Based on what Harsh writes and as a result of his
              > research, I highly doubt Lee was in any shape to do any
              > galloping
              > of any kind.
              >
              > So could this be another glaring error by Priest?
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              >
              > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what
              > is making
              > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • G E Mayers
              Confusing narrative... That could be a valid comment on most of what Priest writes...... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth,
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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                Confusing narrative... That could be a valid comment on most of
                what Priest writes......

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <DPowell334@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:37 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Sorrel's wounding at Antietam and
                "Battery Longstreet"


                > When I write, I like to take note of such inconsistencies,
                > either in a
                > footnote or in the text itself. I might still use the quote,
                > but with a caveat.
                >
                > It also gives you the chance to check on the historical
                > accuracy of the
                > original observer - could he see what he said he saw?
                >
                > That's the historian's job, to sort out the wheat from the
                > chaff. I know I
                > can string together dozens of quotes from other battles that
                > directly
                > contradict each other - but that would make for a very
                > confusing narrative.
                >
                > Dave Powell
                >
                >
                > In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:33:33 A.M. Central Standard
                > Time,
                > d.essig@... writes:
                >
                > While that might be the case, it could also be an exaggeration
                > written by the historical observer instead.
                >
                > I'm not big on Priest's books, but I wouldn't be too quick to
                > drop
                > this at his feet.
                >
                >
                > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what
                > is making
                > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • barringer63
                Gerry Mayers wrote: Based on what Harsh writes and as a result of his ... FWIW, on October 2, 1862, Lee wrote a letter to Markie Williams in which he referred
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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                  Gerry Mayers wrote:
                  Based on what Harsh writes and as a result of his
                  > research, I highly doubt Lee was in any shape to do any galloping
                  > of any kind.
                  >
                  FWIW, on October 2, 1862, Lee wrote a letter to Markie Williams in
                  which he referred to his "accident." He told her that he still had to
                  use a secretary to write his correspondence but otherwise was in good
                  health.

                  Regards,
                  Teej
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Teej, That letter is a good three weeks after Sharpsburg, at which time, I would expect his wrists to have improved by then. IIRC it took him almost two
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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                    Dear Teej,

                    That letter is a good three weeks after Sharpsburg, at which
                    time, I would expect his wrists to have improved by then. IIRC it
                    took him almost two months before he could resume total use of
                    his hands without pain... that is from the time of the injury on
                    31 August.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "barringer63" <teej@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 1:24 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Sorrel's wounding at Antietam and
                    "Battery Longstreet"


                    Gerry Mayers wrote:
                    Based on what Harsh writes and as a result of his
                    > research, I highly doubt Lee was in any shape to do any
                    > galloping
                    > of any kind.
                    >
                    FWIW, on October 2, 1862, Lee wrote a letter to Markie Williams
                    in
                    which he referred to his "accident." He told her that he still
                    had to
                    use a secretary to write his correspondence but otherwise was in
                    good
                    health.

                    Regards,
                    Teej
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    The source of Priest s citation about Lee galloping up, apparently, is a letter from Bart Johnson writing on March 17, 1895 t oteh editor of Confederate
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 9, 2009
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                      The source of Priest's citation about Lee galloping up, apparently, is a letter from Bart Johnson writing on March 17, 1895 t oteh editor of Confederate Veteran. he says it is in the Lilley collection at the Washington County Library. I'll check it the nexttime I am there, but memory sources 32 years after the event set off my crap detector.




                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College
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