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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help with numbers present in several Union regiments

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  • Dean Essig
    ... As far as I ve been able to tell, yes. They hired a grad student some time ago to create a file for each regiment in Ted Alexander s office. Most all the
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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      On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:07 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

      > Does the park use Carman as a basis for the numbers?

      As far as I've been able to tell, yes.

      They hired a grad student some time ago to create a file for each
      regiment in Ted Alexander's office. Most all the numbers agree with
      Carmen, there are a few typos (quite possibly my own when I
      transposed them for my records) and some of the numbers in unengaged
      units look a little too perfect to be right. For example, I have a
      hard time believing all the regiments in First Division 6th Corps
      have exactly 400 men, as do the first two brigades of second division.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rob & Patti Erickson
      Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use? BTW, what is F188 that you included with the 82nd PA? Thanks, Rob
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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        Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use?

        BTW, what is "F188" that you included with the 82nd PA?

        Thanks, Rob

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bryn Monnery"
        <littlegreenmen.geo@...> wrote:
        >

        > 82nd Penn+F188 298
      • Bryn Monnery
        ... The Sid Meier game, which itself sourced Carman. I ve verified several regimental strengths and it seems to be okay, certainly to best I ve found. Antietam
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2008
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          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rob & Patti Erickson"
          <pattirobpatti@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use?

          The Sid Meier game, which itself sourced Carman. I've verified several
          regimental strengths and it seems to be okay, certainly to best I've
          found.

          Antietam is one of those battles I've had real problems ascertaining
          actual combat strengths, and I'm still looking for better.

          > BTW, what is "F188" that you included with the 82nd PA?

          Spreadsheet error. I think the list in Bde/Div/Corps order was in cell
          F188 and I made a mistake copying and pasting.

          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bryn Monnery"
          > <littlegreenmen.geo@> wrote:
          > >
          >
          > > 82nd Penn+F188 298
          >
        • G E Mayers
          Bryn, Trying to determine actual present for field duty strengths for almost any battle of the War has been a most challenging task. Antietam is particularly
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2008
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            Bryn,

            Trying to determine actual present for field duty strengths for
            almost any battle of the War has been a most challenging task.
            Antietam is particularly challenging due to the lack of more
            complete Confederate records.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:49 AM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help with numbers present in several
            Union regiments


            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rob & Patti Erickson"
            <pattirobpatti@...> wrote:
            >
            > Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use?

            The Sid Meier game, which itself sourced Carman. I've verified
            several
            regimental strengths and it seems to be okay, certainly to best
            I've
            found.

            Antietam is one of those battles I've had real problems
            ascertaining
            actual combat strengths, and I'm still looking for better.

            > BTW, what is "F188" that you included with the 82nd PA?

            Spreadsheet error. I think the list in Bde/Div/Corps order was in
            cell
            F188 and I made a mistake copying and pasting.

            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bryn Monnery"
            > <littlegreenmen.geo@> wrote:
            > >
            >
            > > 82nd Penn+F188 298
            >
          • Bryn Monnery
            The different measures of strength (P, PFD, PFDE, Effectives etc.) are also problematic. For the Confederates in one way it s easier. They tended to use
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1, 2008
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              The different measures of strength (P, PFD, PFDE, Effectives etc.) are
              also problematic.

              For the Confederates in one way it's easier. They tended to use
              effectives or muskets, and so we can have a good idea the bayonet
              strength where this data is available.

              The Union tended to include detachments in their regimental PFD
              reports, so Union strength tends to be overstated. A vast quantity of
              information about the 91st PA is online
              (http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pa91/cbant.html )
              and worth a look. Unfortunately, the database of Morning States starts
              in Feb 63.

              However, deducting 1/3rd of the PFD is a fair indicator of actual
              combatants in this period. When Sherman later took over the Army of
              the Cumberland he noted that fully half the army were non-combatants.

              Taking Harsh's figures, at Antietam it looks like 30,000 odd CS
              infantry squared up against 40,000 US infantry, but the figures are
              highly debatable.

              > Bryn,
              >
              > Trying to determine actual present for field duty strengths for
              > almost any battle of the War has been a most challenging task.
              > Antietam is particularly challenging due to the lack of more
              > complete Confederate records.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:49 AM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help with numbers present in several
              > Union regiments
              >
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rob & Patti Erickson"
              > <pattirobpatti@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use?
              >
              > The Sid Meier game, which itself sourced Carman. I've verified
              > several
              > regimental strengths and it seems to be okay, certainly to best
              > I've
              > found.
              >
              > Antietam is one of those battles I've had real problems
              > ascertaining
              > actual combat strengths, and I'm still looking for better.
              >
              > > BTW, what is "F188" that you included with the 82nd PA?
              >
              > Spreadsheet error. I think the list in Bde/Div/Corps order was in
              > cell
              > F188 and I made a mistake copying and pasting.
              >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bryn Monnery"
              > > <littlegreenmen.geo@> wrote:
              > > >
              > >
              > > > 82nd Penn+F188 298
              > >
              >
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