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Help with numbers present in several Union regiments

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  • Rob & Patti Erickson
    Esteemed members, I am looking for information about the number of men Present for Duty, Equipped for the following Union regiments at Antietam: 5th
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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      Esteemed members, I am looking for information about the number of
      men "Present for Duty, Equipped" for the following Union regiments at
      Antietam:

      5th Maryland (II Corps, 3rd Division, 3rd/Weber's Brigade)

      124th Pennsylvania (XII Corps, 1st Dv., 1st Bde.)

      125th PA (ditto)

      128th PA (ditto)

      Gilmore's WV Cavalry Company (Kanawha Division)

      Harrison's WV Cavalry Company (ditto)

      Schambach's IL Cavalry (ditto)

      3rd Independant Company, Ohio Cavalry (ditto)

      1st U. S. Cavalry

      Thank you in advance,

      Rob Erickson
    • Dean Essig
      Hi Rob! Here s the best I have... ... ... Same as above. Hope that helps! Dean ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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        Hi Rob!

        Here's the best I have...

        On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Rob & Patti Erickson wrote:

        > Esteemed members, I am looking for information about the number of
        > men "Present for Duty, Equipped" for the following Union regiments at
        > Antietam:
        >
        > 5th Maryland (II Corps, 3rd Division, 3rd/Weber's Brigade)
        >


        > ...550... park records.
        >
        > 124th Pennsylvania (XII Corps, 1st Dv., 1st Bde.)
        >

        > ...670... park records.
        >
        > 125th PA (ditto)
        >
        > 128th PA (ditto)
        >

        ... the park listing has 670 for all three. Best guess, probably.
        >
        >
        > Gilmore's WV Cavalry Company (Kanawha Division)
        >
        > Harrison's WV Cavalry Company (ditto)
        >


        > ...I have 50 men for both of those, but it is my own best guess.
        >
        > Schambach's IL Cavalry (ditto)
        >


        > ...67... http://www.lib.niu.edu/1999/ihwt9916.html
        >

        >
        > 3rd Independant Company, Ohio Cavalry (ditto)
        >


        > ... I don't have info on them.
        >
        > 1st U. S. Cavalr
        >

        ... Same as above.

        Hope that helps!

        Dean
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rob & Patti Erickson
        Dean, wow, thanks for the quick reply and the info. Rob ... regiments at
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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          Dean, wow, thanks for the quick reply and the info. Rob


          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dean Essig <d.essig@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Rob!
          >
          > Here's the best I have...
          >
          > On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Rob & Patti Erickson wrote:
          >
          > > Esteemed members, I am looking for information about the number of
          > > men "Present for Duty, Equipped" for the following Union
          regiments at
          > > Antietam:
          > >
          > > 5th Maryland (II Corps, 3rd Division, 3rd/Weber's Brigade)
          > >
          >
          >
          > > ...550... park records.
          > >
          > > 124th Pennsylvania (XII Corps, 1st Dv., 1st Bde.)
          > >
          >
          > > ...670... park records.
          > >
          > > 125th PA (ditto)
          > >
          > > 128th PA (ditto)
          > >
          >
          > ... the park listing has 670 for all three. Best guess, probably.
          > >
          > >
          > > Gilmore's WV Cavalry Company (Kanawha Division)
          > >
          > > Harrison's WV Cavalry Company (ditto)
          > >
          >
          >
          > > ...I have 50 men for both of those, but it is my own best guess.
          > >
          > > Schambach's IL Cavalry (ditto)
          > >
          >
          >
          > > ...67... http://www.lib.niu.edu/1999/ihwt9916.html
          > >
          >
          > >
          > > 3rd Independant Company, Ohio Cavalry (ditto)
          > >
          >
          >
          > > ... I don't have info on them.
          > >
          > > 1st U. S. Cavalr
          > >
          >
          > ... Same as above.
          >
          > Hope that helps!
          >
          > Dean
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Bryn Monnery
          ... All PFD (including detachments, on average deduct 1/3rd to get the number of combatants) Rgt PFD 8th Conn 375 11th Conn 430 14th Conn 751 16th Conn 739 1st
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rob & Patti Erickson"
            <pattirobpatti@...> wrote:
            >
            > Esteemed members, I am looking for information about the number of
            > men "Present for Duty, Equipped" for the following Union regiments at
            > Antietam:

            All PFD (including detachments, on average deduct 1/3rd to get the
            number of combatants)

            Rgt PFD
            8th Conn 375
            11th Conn 430
            14th Conn 751
            16th Conn 739
            1st Del 708
            2nd Del 310
            3rd Del 126
            7th Ind 220
            14th Ind 320
            19th Ind 268
            27th Ind 409
            2nd Maine 173
            5th Maine 299
            6th Maine 329
            7th Maine 181
            10th Maine 297
            20th Maine 788
            5th Maryland 550
            2nd Mass/Zouaves Afrique 488
            7th Mass 301
            9th Mass/2nd DC 379
            10th Mass 352
            12th Mass 334
            13th Mass 301
            15th Mass 606
            18th Mass 282
            19th Mass 418
            20th Mass 400
            21st Mass 158
            22nd Mass 166
            28th Mass 217
            29th Mass 380
            32nd Mass 315
            35th Mass 750
            1st Mich 152
            4th Mich 288
            7th Mich 402
            8th Mich 435
            16th Mich 122
            17th Mich 525
            1st Minn 477
            1st NJ 308
            2nd NJ 283
            3rd NJ 291
            4th NJ 331
            13th NJ 630
            5th NH 319
            6th NH 157
            9th NH 710
            5th NY 208
            7th NY 322
            9th NY 375
            10th NY 315
            12th NY 159
            13th NY 160
            14th NY 300
            16th NY 343
            17th NY 124
            18th NY 292
            20th NY 680
            21st NY 150
            22nd/24th NY 121
            23rd NY 259
            25th NY 153
            26th NY 211
            27th NY 311
            28th NY/46th Penn 220
            30th/84th NY 128
            31st NY 319
            32nd NY 317
            33rd NY 380
            34th NY 311
            35th NY 252
            42nd NY 345
            43rd NY 390
            44th NY 120
            46th NY 278
            49th NY 268
            51st NY 338
            52nd NY 120
            57th NY 309
            59th NY 381
            60th NY 226
            61st NY 121
            62nd NY 318
            63rd NY 341
            64th NY 233
            65th NY 323
            66th NY 303
            67th NY 259
            69th NY 317
            77th NY 177
            78th NY 221
            79th NY 193
            80th NY 150
            82nd NY 339
            83rd NY 288
            88th NY 302
            89th NY 368
            94th NY 235
            97th NY 203
            102nd NY 163
            103rd NY 202
            104th NY 282
            105th NY 298
            107th NY 850
            108th NY 750
            122nd NY 617
            8th Ohio 341
            5th Ohio 161
            7th Ohio 120
            11th Ohio 430
            12th Ohio 200
            23rd Ohio 360
            28th Ohio 719
            30th Ohio 342
            36th Ohio 739
            66th Ohio 122
            1st Penn Res 225
            2nd Penn Res 223
            3rd Penn Res 211
            4th Penn Res 281
            5th Penn Res 241
            6th Penn Res 314
            7th Penn Res 285
            8th Penn Res 253
            9th Penn Res 264
            10th Penn Res 160
            11th Penn Res 179
            12th Penn Res 220
            13th Penn Res 275
            23rd Penn 284
            28th Penn 650
            45th Penn 560
            48th Penn 390
            49th Penn 317
            50th Penn 370
            51st Penn 333
            61st Penn 307
            62nd Penn 435
            69th Penn 486
            71st Penn 470
            72nd Penn 601
            81st Penn 319
            82nd Penn+F188 298
            83rd Penn 123
            93rd Penn 299
            95th Penn 339
            96th Penn 304
            98th Penn 317
            100th Penn 356
            102nd Penn 360
            106th Penn 462
            107th Penn 190
            111th Penn 253
            118th Penn 737
            124th Penn 655
            125th Penn 689
            128th Penn 650
            130th Penn 690
            132nd Penn 750
            137th Penn 681
            139th Penn 649
            2nd RI 265
            4th RI 247
            2nd Ver 307
            3rd Ver 322
            4th Ver 372
            5th Ver 366
            6th Ver 402
            2nd Wisc 172
            3rd Wisc 340
            5th Wisc 397
            6th Wisc 314
            7th Wisc 190
            1st US 182
            2nd/10th US 402
            3rd US 197
            4th US 318
            11th US 249
            1st Bn 12th US 155
            2nd Bn 12th US 128
            1st Bn 14th US 310
            2nd Bn 14th US 331
            17th US 309
            Purnell Leg 204

            total 63056
            average 339.0107527
          • G E Mayers
            Bryn, This is much more than the original question asked for! LOL. Where did you get the numbers? Carman? Dyer s Compendium? Another source? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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              Bryn,

              This is much more than the original question asked for! LOL.

              Where did you get the numbers? Carman? Dyer's Compendium? Another
              source?

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:40 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help with numbers present in several
              Union regiments


              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rob & Patti Erickson"
              <pattirobpatti@...> wrote:
              >
              > Esteemed members, I am looking for information about the
              > number of
              > men "Present for Duty, Equipped" for the following Union
              > regiments at
              > Antietam:

              All PFD (including detachments, on average deduct 1/3rd to get
              the
              number of combatants)

              Rgt PFD
              8th Conn 375
              11th Conn 430
              14th Conn 751
              16th Conn 739
              1st Del 708
              2nd Del 310
              3rd Del 126
              7th Ind 220
              14th Ind 320
              19th Ind 268
              27th Ind 409
              2nd Maine 173
              5th Maine 299
              6th Maine 329
              7th Maine 181
              10th Maine 297
              20th Maine 788
              5th Maryland 550
              2nd Mass/Zouaves Afrique 488
              7th Mass 301
              9th Mass/2nd DC 379
              10th Mass 352
              12th Mass 334
              13th Mass 301
              15th Mass 606
              18th Mass 282
              19th Mass 418
              20th Mass 400
              21st Mass 158
              22nd Mass 166
              28th Mass 217
              29th Mass 380
              32nd Mass 315
              35th Mass 750
              1st Mich 152
              4th Mich 288
              7th Mich 402
              8th Mich 435
              16th Mich 122
              17th Mich 525
              1st Minn 477
              1st NJ 308
              2nd NJ 283
              3rd NJ 291
              4th NJ 331
              13th NJ 630
              5th NH 319
              6th NH 157
              9th NH 710
              5th NY 208
              7th NY 322
              9th NY 375
              10th NY 315
              12th NY 159
              13th NY 160
              14th NY 300
              16th NY 343
              17th NY 124
              18th NY 292
              20th NY 680
              21st NY 150
              22nd/24th NY 121
              23rd NY 259
              25th NY 153
              26th NY 211
              27th NY 311
              28th NY/46th Penn 220
              30th/84th NY 128
              31st NY 319
              32nd NY 317
              33rd NY 380
              34th NY 311
              35th NY 252
              42nd NY 345
              43rd NY 390
              44th NY 120
              46th NY 278
              49th NY 268
              51st NY 338
              52nd NY 120
              57th NY 309
              59th NY 381
              60th NY 226
              61st NY 121
              62nd NY 318
              63rd NY 341
              64th NY 233
              65th NY 323
              66th NY 303
              67th NY 259
              69th NY 317
              77th NY 177
              78th NY 221
              79th NY 193
              80th NY 150
              82nd NY 339
              83rd NY 288
              88th NY 302
              89th NY 368
              94th NY 235
              97th NY 203
              102nd NY 163
              103rd NY 202
              104th NY 282
              105th NY 298
              107th NY 850
              108th NY 750
              122nd NY 617
              8th Ohio 341
              5th Ohio 161
              7th Ohio 120
              11th Ohio 430
              12th Ohio 200
              23rd Ohio 360
              28th Ohio 719
              30th Ohio 342
              36th Ohio 739
              66th Ohio 122
              1st Penn Res 225
              2nd Penn Res 223
              3rd Penn Res 211
              4th Penn Res 281
              5th Penn Res 241
              6th Penn Res 314
              7th Penn Res 285
              8th Penn Res 253
              9th Penn Res 264
              10th Penn Res 160
              11th Penn Res 179
              12th Penn Res 220
              13th Penn Res 275
              23rd Penn 284
              28th Penn 650
              45th Penn 560
              48th Penn 390
              49th Penn 317
              50th Penn 370
              51st Penn 333
              61st Penn 307
              62nd Penn 435
              69th Penn 486
              71st Penn 470
              72nd Penn 601
              81st Penn 319
              82nd Penn+F188 298
              83rd Penn 123
              93rd Penn 299
              95th Penn 339
              96th Penn 304
              98th Penn 317
              100th Penn 356
              102nd Penn 360
              106th Penn 462
              107th Penn 190
              111th Penn 253
              118th Penn 737
              124th Penn 655
              125th Penn 689
              128th Penn 650
              130th Penn 690
              132nd Penn 750
              137th Penn 681
              139th Penn 649
              2nd RI 265
              4th RI 247
              2nd Ver 307
              3rd Ver 322
              4th Ver 372
              5th Ver 366
              6th Ver 402
              2nd Wisc 172
              3rd Wisc 340
              5th Wisc 397
              6th Wisc 314
              7th Wisc 190
              1st US 182
              2nd/10th US 402
              3rd US 197
              4th US 318
              11th US 249
              1st Bn 12th US 155
              2nd Bn 12th US 128
              1st Bn 14th US 310
              2nd Bn 14th US 331
              17th US 309
              Purnell Leg 204

              total 63056
              average 339.0107527
            • G E Mayers
              Dear Dean, Does the park use Carman as a basis for the numbers? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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                Dear Dean,

                Does the park use Carman as a basis for the numbers?

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Rob & Patti Erickson" <pattirobpatti@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:27 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help with numbers present in several
                Union regiments


                Dean, wow, thanks for the quick reply and the info. Rob


                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dean Essig <d.essig@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hi Rob!
                >
                > Here's the best I have...
                >
                > On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Rob & Patti Erickson wrote:
                >
                > > Esteemed members, I am looking for information about the
                > > number of
                > > men "Present for Duty, Equipped" for the following Union
                regiments at
                > > Antietam:
                > >
                > > 5th Maryland (II Corps, 3rd Division, 3rd/Weber's Brigade)
                > >
                >
                >
                > > ...550... park records.
                > >
                > > 124th Pennsylvania (XII Corps, 1st Dv., 1st Bde.)
                > >
                >
                > > ...670... park records.
                > >
                > > 125th PA (ditto)
                > >
                > > 128th PA (ditto)
                > >
                >
                > ... the park listing has 670 for all three. Best guess,
                > probably.
                > >
                > >
                > > Gilmore's WV Cavalry Company (Kanawha Division)
                > >
                > > Harrison's WV Cavalry Company (ditto)
                > >
                >
                >
                > > ...I have 50 men for both of those, but it is my own best
                > > guess.
                > >
                > > Schambach's IL Cavalry (ditto)
                > >
                >
                >
                > > ...67... http://www.lib.niu.edu/1999/ihwt9916.html
                > >
                >
                > >
                > > 3rd Independant Company, Ohio Cavalry (ditto)
                > >
                >
                >
                > > ... I don't have info on them.
                > >
                > > 1st U. S. Cavalr
                > >
                >
                > ... Same as above.
                >
                > Hope that helps!
                >
                > Dean
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Dean Essig
                ... As far as I ve been able to tell, yes. They hired a grad student some time ago to create a file for each regiment in Ted Alexander s office. Most all the
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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                  On Oct 29, 2008, at 4:07 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                  > Does the park use Carman as a basis for the numbers?

                  As far as I've been able to tell, yes.

                  They hired a grad student some time ago to create a file for each
                  regiment in Ted Alexander's office. Most all the numbers agree with
                  Carmen, there are a few typos (quite possibly my own when I
                  transposed them for my records) and some of the numbers in unengaged
                  units look a little too perfect to be right. For example, I have a
                  hard time believing all the regiments in First Division 6th Corps
                  have exactly 400 men, as do the first two brigades of second division.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rob & Patti Erickson
                  Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use? BTW, what is F188 that you included with the 82nd PA? Thanks, Rob
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 29, 2008
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                    Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use?

                    BTW, what is "F188" that you included with the 82nd PA?

                    Thanks, Rob

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bryn Monnery"
                    <littlegreenmen.geo@...> wrote:
                    >

                    > 82nd Penn+F188 298
                  • Bryn Monnery
                    ... The Sid Meier game, which itself sourced Carman. I ve verified several regimental strengths and it seems to be okay, certainly to best I ve found. Antietam
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 1, 2008
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                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rob & Patti Erickson"
                      <pattirobpatti@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use?

                      The Sid Meier game, which itself sourced Carman. I've verified several
                      regimental strengths and it seems to be okay, certainly to best I've
                      found.

                      Antietam is one of those battles I've had real problems ascertaining
                      actual combat strengths, and I'm still looking for better.

                      > BTW, what is "F188" that you included with the 82nd PA?

                      Spreadsheet error. I think the list in Bde/Div/Corps order was in cell
                      F188 and I made a mistake copying and pasting.

                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bryn Monnery"
                      > <littlegreenmen.geo@> wrote:
                      > >
                      >
                      > > 82nd Penn+F188 298
                      >
                    • G E Mayers
                      Bryn, Trying to determine actual present for field duty strengths for almost any battle of the War has been a most challenging task. Antietam is particularly
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 1, 2008
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                        Bryn,

                        Trying to determine actual present for field duty strengths for
                        almost any battle of the War has been a most challenging task.
                        Antietam is particularly challenging due to the lack of more
                        complete Confederate records.

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:49 AM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help with numbers present in several
                        Union regiments


                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rob & Patti Erickson"
                        <pattirobpatti@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use?

                        The Sid Meier game, which itself sourced Carman. I've verified
                        several
                        regimental strengths and it seems to be okay, certainly to best
                        I've
                        found.

                        Antietam is one of those battles I've had real problems
                        ascertaining
                        actual combat strengths, and I'm still looking for better.

                        > BTW, what is "F188" that you included with the 82nd PA?

                        Spreadsheet error. I think the list in Bde/Div/Corps order was in
                        cell
                        F188 and I made a mistake copying and pasting.

                        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bryn Monnery"
                        > <littlegreenmen.geo@> wrote:
                        > >
                        >
                        > > 82nd Penn+F188 298
                        >
                      • Bryn Monnery
                        The different measures of strength (P, PFD, PFDE, Effectives etc.) are also problematic. For the Confederates in one way it s easier. They tended to use
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 1, 2008
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                          The different measures of strength (P, PFD, PFDE, Effectives etc.) are
                          also problematic.

                          For the Confederates in one way it's easier. They tended to use
                          effectives or muskets, and so we can have a good idea the bayonet
                          strength where this data is available.

                          The Union tended to include detachments in their regimental PFD
                          reports, so Union strength tends to be overstated. A vast quantity of
                          information about the 91st PA is online
                          (http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pa91/cbant.html )
                          and worth a look. Unfortunately, the database of Morning States starts
                          in Feb 63.

                          However, deducting 1/3rd of the PFD is a fair indicator of actual
                          combatants in this period. When Sherman later took over the Army of
                          the Cumberland he noted that fully half the army were non-combatants.

                          Taking Harsh's figures, at Antietam it looks like 30,000 odd CS
                          infantry squared up against 40,000 US infantry, but the figures are
                          highly debatable.

                          > Bryn,
                          >
                          > Trying to determine actual present for field duty strengths for
                          > almost any battle of the War has been a most challenging task.
                          > Antietam is particularly challenging due to the lack of more
                          > complete Confederate records.
                          >
                          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >
                          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@...>
                          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:49 AM
                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Help with numbers present in several
                          > Union regiments
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Rob & Patti Erickson"
                          > <pattirobpatti@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Bryn, thanks for all the info. What source(s) did you use?
                          >
                          > The Sid Meier game, which itself sourced Carman. I've verified
                          > several
                          > regimental strengths and it seems to be okay, certainly to best
                          > I've
                          > found.
                          >
                          > Antietam is one of those battles I've had real problems
                          > ascertaining
                          > actual combat strengths, and I'm still looking for better.
                          >
                          > > BTW, what is "F188" that you included with the 82nd PA?
                          >
                          > Spreadsheet error. I think the list in Bde/Div/Corps order was in
                          > cell
                          > F188 and I made a mistake copying and pasting.
                          >
                          > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bryn Monnery"
                          > > <littlegreenmen.geo@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > > 82nd Penn+F188 298
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