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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman

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  • G E Mayers
    Dean, I did not know you could download the Carman Copes maps! Where can you find them online to download? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 4, 2008
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      Dean,

      I did not know you could download the Carman Copes maps! Where
      can you find them online to download?

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 12:59 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman


      > I'd go with Murfin, but as you don't think it is detailed
      > enough,
      > Camen is _the_ source for detail. Just have some good maps
      > handy,
      > like the downloadable Carmen Cope maps to follow visually.
      >
      > Dean
      >
      > On Oct 4, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Dave wrote:
      >
      >> Ok, then, can it be said by most that Priest is, in some
      >> cases,
      >> unreliable as a guide to the tactical movements of the battle
      >> itself?
      >> How then does a newbie to studying this battle go about
      >> tracing
      >> movements of brigades (and in some cases regiments) so that I
      >> can get
      >> them into my head? I mean, is there a reliable work, like
      >> Pfanz for
      >> Gettysburg, that spends a lot of time on actual battle
      >> movements?
      >> Harsh, Murfin, Sears et.al. don't seem (to me) to offer the
      >> kind of
      >> detail that Priest does. The campaign I have a grasp on, it's
      >> the
      >> battle itself that is foggy.
      >>
      >> That's also why I've been asking about the value of Carman.
      >>
      >> Or, maybe I just need a battlefield guide for 3 hours in a few
      >> weeks?
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • James W. Durney
      ... itself? ... get ... for ... weeks? ... I m not sure that what we know is what happened. During combat, few people check details like time or try to
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 4, 2008
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        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dave <gewehr@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ok, then, can it be said by most that Priest is, in some cases,
        > unreliable as a guide to the tactical movements of the battle
        itself?
        > How then does a newbie to studying this battle go about tracing
        > movements of brigades (and in some cases regiments) so that I can
        get
        > them into my head? I mean, is there a reliable work, like Pfanz
        for
        > Gettysburg, that spends a lot of time on actual battle movements?
        > Harsh, Murfin, Sears et.al. don't seem (to me) to offer the kind of
        > detail that Priest does. The campaign I have a grasp on, it's the
        > battle itself that is foggy.
        >
        > That's also why I've been asking about the value of Carman.
        >
        > Or, maybe I just need a battlefield guide for 3 hours in a few
        weeks?
        >
        >

        I'm not sure that what we "know" is what happened. During combat,
        few people check details like time or try to determine where they are
        in the woods, fileds or hills. The majority are trying to stay alive
        while trying to kill someone. After it is all over, in sime cases
        years later, they "remember" these details for histories.

        While not Antietam, Oliver Norton's "Attack and Defense of Little
        Round Top" is the best example of how history is made that I know of.
      • Dean Essig
        Sure Gerry... Available right here (make sure that whole ugly thing is one line on your browser): http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 4, 2008
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          Sure Gerry...

          Available right here (make sure that whole ugly thing is one line on
          your browser):

          http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?
          collId=milmap&action=browse&fileName=gmd384m/g3842m/g3842am/
          gcw0247000/ct_browse.db&displayType=3&maxCols=3&recNum=0&itemLink=r?
          ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g3842am+gcw0247000))&title2=Atlas+of+the
          +battlefield+of+Antietam+%2f+&linkText=Back+to+bibliographic+information

          Dean

          On Oct 4, 2008, at 7:18 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

          > I did not know you could download the Carman Copes maps! Where
          > can you find them online to download?



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • G E Mayers
          Dean, It did not come in as one single hyperlinked line. If you can tell me where on the memory.loc.gov website I need to go, I can search for it myself. Yr.
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 4, 2008
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            Dean,

            It did not come in as one single hyperlinked line.

            If you can tell me where on the memory.loc.gov website I need to
            go, I can search for it myself.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:36 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman


            > Sure Gerry...
            >
            > Available right here (make sure that whole ugly thing is one
            > line on
            > your browser):
            >
            > http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?
            > collId=milmap&action=browse&fileName=gmd384m/g3842m/g3842am/
            > gcw0247000/ct_browse.db&displayType=3&maxCols=3&recNum=0&itemLink=r?
            > ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g3842am+gcw0247000))&title2=Atlas+of+the
            > +battlefield+of+Antietam+%2f+&linkText=Back+to+bibliographic+information
            >
            > Dean
            >
            > On Oct 4, 2008, at 7:18 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
            >
            >> I did not know you could download the Carman Copes maps! Where
            >> can you find them online to download?
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
          • Dean Essig
            Follow the link below http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=1 And click on the online link in the paragraph headed Campaign Maps . ... [Non-text portions
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 5, 2008
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              Follow the link below

              http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=1

              And click on the "online" link in the paragraph headed "Campaign Maps".


              On Oct 4, 2008, at 10:27 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

              > It did not come in as one single hyperlinked line.
              >
              > If you can tell me where on the memory.loc.gov website I need to
              > go, I can search for it myself.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • G E Mayers
              Dear Dean, I have the Antietam on the Web website already bookmarked and have used the campaign maps. What I need is the actual Cope Carman maps. The link Dave
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 5, 2008
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                Dear Dean,

                I have the Antietam on the Web website already bookmarked and
                have used the campaign maps. What I need is the actual Cope
                Carman maps. The link Dave gave me will work provided I can copy
                the entire URL string.

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Dean Essig" <d.essig@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:01 AM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman


                > Follow the link below
                >
                > http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=1
                >
                > And click on the "online" link in the paragraph headed
                > "Campaign Maps".
                >
                >
                > On Oct 4, 2008, at 10:27 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                >
                >> It did not come in as one single hyperlinked line.
                >>
                >> If you can tell me where on the memory.loc.gov website I need
                >> to
                >> go, I can search for it myself.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • Dean Essig
                The source links on that page I sent takes you to the actual Carmen- Cope maps. I just sent the AotW address because it had a one word hyperlink you could
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 5, 2008
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                  The source links on that page I sent takes you to the actual Carmen-
                  Cope maps. I just sent the AotW address because it had a one word
                  hyperlink you could click to get there.

                  All 14 maps, fully downloadable.

                  On Oct 5, 2008, at 8:36 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                  > I have the Antietam on the Web website already bookmarked and
                  > have used the campaign maps. What I need is the actual Cope
                  > Carman maps. The link Dave gave me will work provided I can copy
                  > the entire URL string.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stephen Recker
                  Funny you should mention this. I just read Tom Desjadin s These Honored Dead: How the Story of Gettysburg Shaped American Memory in which he disputes the
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 5, 2008
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                    Funny you should mention this. I just read Tom Desjadin's "These
                    Honored Dead: How the Story of Gettysburg Shaped American Memory" in
                    which he disputes the accuracy of Norton's "Attack and Defense" much as
                    Harsh deconstructs Walker in "Taken at the Flood".

                    Stephen


                    On Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 09:26 PM, James W. Durney wrote:

                    > While not Antietam, Oliver Norton's "Attack and Defense of Little
                    > Round Top" is the best example of how history is made that I know of.
                    >
                  • James W. Durney
                    However, history is that version. I ve said it many times, I m not sure we know what we think we do. ... in ... much as ... of.
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 5, 2008
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                      However, "history" is that version. I've said it many times, I'm not
                      sure we know what we think we do.


                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Funny you should mention this. I just read Tom Desjadin's "These
                      > Honored Dead: How the Story of Gettysburg Shaped American Memory"
                      in
                      > which he disputes the accuracy of Norton's "Attack and Defense"
                      much as
                      > Harsh deconstructs Walker in "Taken at the Flood".
                      >
                      > Stephen
                      >
                      >
                      > On Saturday, October 4, 2008, at 09:26 PM, James W. Durney wrote:
                      >
                      > > While not Antietam, Oliver Norton's "Attack and Defense of Little
                      > > Round Top" is the best example of how history is made that I know
                      of.
                      > >
                      >
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