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RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan

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  • Harry Smeltzer
    Warning - before you go into the NYT archives site, be sure you don t have any plans for the next few hours. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 53 , Sep 18, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Warning - before you go into the NYT archives site, be sure you don't have
      any plans for the next few hours.



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
      Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:09 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan



      Damn it. This thing also won't let me insert hyperlinks. Shit.all that
      work for nothing. But if you go to the NYT archives site (I won't bother
      with the address, it will get all F-ed up) and use the advanced search for
      keyword McClellan and the dates 8/30/1962 to 9/17/1862, you'll be able to
      find all the articles I mentioned.

      Harry

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
      Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 9:05 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan

      Sorry about the links.the ads Yahoo puts on the sides screw them up. But if
      you go to this search page, all the mentions of McClellan from August 30 to
      September 17 show up:

      McClellan
      <http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?frow=0&n=10&srcht=s&daterange=period&
      > nytimes.com/search/query?frow=0&n=10&srcht=s&daterange=period&
      > nytimes.com/search/query?frow=0&n=10&srcht=s&daterange=period&
      query=McClellan&srchst=p&hdlquery=&bylquery=&mon1=08&day1=30&year1=1862&mon2
      =09&day2=17&year2=1862&submit.x=26&submit.y=13> NYT

      There's a big difference, as the Times points out, between Mac being in
      charge of the defenses and his taking an army into the field.

      Harry

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
      Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:58 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan

      I know this is only one paper, but it was a pretty widely read one:

      On August 30, the NY Times reported the McClellan had been appointed to
      command of the Army of Virginia, but that Burniside was in command of the
      Army of the Potomac and Pope in command of the Army of the Rappahannock.
      See here:

      http://query. <http://query.
      <http://query. <http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1>
      nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1>
      nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1>
      nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1
      <http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9D07E0DA1330EF34BC48
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9D07E0DA1330EF34BC48
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9D07E0DA1330EF34BC48
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9D07E0DA1330EF34BC48
      50DFBE668389679FDE&oref=slogin>
      &res=9D07E0DA1330EF34BC4850DFBE668389679FDE&oref=slogin

      On the 2nd, the Times reported that McClellan had no command of any
      importance:

      http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE5D71F3AE43BBC4A53DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE5D71F3AE43BBC4A53DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE5D71F3AE43BBC4A53DFB
      F> nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE5D71F3AE43BBC4A53DFBF
      668389679FDE

      On the 4th of Sept., it was reported that McClellan had been placed in
      command of the defenses of Washington:

      http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B07E3D81F3FEE34BC4C53DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B07E3D81F3FEE34BC4C53DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B07E3D81F3FEE34BC4C53DFB
      F> nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B07E3D81F3FEE34BC4C53DFBF
      668389679FDE

      On the 6th, McClellan's GO No. 1 state again that he is in command of the
      fortifications:

      http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE5D71F3AE43BBC4A53DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE5D71F3AE43BBC4A53DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE5D71F3AE43BBC4A53DFB
      F> nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE5D71F3AE43BBC4A53DFBF
      668389679FDE

      Also on the 6th, this article explains that Mac is ONLY in charge of the
      defenses, and definitely WILL NOT be taking an army into the field:

      http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9F0DE1D81F3FEE34BC4E53DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9F0DE1D81F3FEE34BC4E53DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9F0DE1D81F3FEE34BC4E53DFB
      F> nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9F0DE1D81F3FEE34BC4E53DFBF
      668389679FDE

      On the 12th is the first report from "General McClellan's Army", reporting
      it to be no further from Washington than Poolesville. Interestingly, this
      article also points out that Miles should evacuate Harper's Ferry, as it is
      untenable:

      http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.
      <http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C01E4D71F3AE43BBC4A52DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C01E4D71F3AE43BBC4A52DFB
      > nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C01E4D71F3AE43BBC4A52DFB
      F> nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C01E4D71F3AE43BBC4A52DFBF
      668389679FDE

      Harry

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of William H Keene
      Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:33 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan

      --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:
      > ...
      > Can anyone show that Lee did know, even by the 9th of September, that
      > McClellan was in command of the Union army then in the field in
      Maryland?

      It was very well reported in newspapers from August 30 on that McCellan
      was in command of the US forces in and around Washington. I cant show
      that Lee read those newspapers, but it doesnt seem far fetched to think
      he did.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Looking at Brown pp. 241 and 325 LT Miner occupied SL on 9/3 and sent his last message on 9/5. See also OR s vol. 19/1 p. 117 et seq, and 19/2 p. 184/186. If
      Message 53 of 53 , Sep 19, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Looking at Brown pp. 241 and 325 LT Miner occupied SL on 9/3 and sent
        his last message on 9/5. See also OR's vol. 19/1 p. 117 et seq, and
        19/2 p. 184/186. If anyone finds anything more re messages to/from
        Miner, pls let me know.

        Larry F.


        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > They might have either successfully gotten a message off about
        > shutting down or, since IIRC according to Willard Brown's book,
        > they were told to keep reporting as long as possible, were caught
        > before they could shut down?
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:27 PM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan -- The Baltimore
        > Sun
        >
        >
        > Now there is a twist. What if just after the Rebs took Sugarloaf,
        > a
        > Union station closer to DC signaled to Sugarloaf station re
        > McClellan. But I think that the SL Station told everyone that
        > they
        > were shutting down since the Rebs were close.
        >
        > Larry F.
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > This begs another question... how "leaky" was the Federal
        > > communications system? IIRC, the Confederates captured Sugar
        > > Loaf
        > > Mountain, where there was a Federal signal station, not too
        > > long
        > > upon their entrance into Maryland. If there were any messages
        > > to
        > > the Signal Station implying Mac was "back in the saddle", would
        > > not those messages have made their way to Lee?
        > >
        > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        > >
        > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
        > > from
        > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@>
        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 2:10 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan -- The
        > > Baltimore Sun
        > >
        > >
        > > >I don't know, Teej. It seems to me any of these stories would
        > > >be originating in DC. So, we would have telegraphs from DC to
        > > >Baltimore, or DC to New York. I don't think Stuart had any of
        > > >his cavalrymen along the lines between those places.
        > > >
        > > > Ahh, coeds.
        > > >
        > > > Harry
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: Teej
        > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:38 AM
        > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan -- The
        > > > Baltimore Sun
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Harry wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Also, how exactly do we think Lee got his hands on these
        > > > papers?
        > > > They were IIRC all printed in the cities of their origin -
        > > > how
        > > > did they get
        > > > to and through the Confederate pickets and vedettes?
        > > >
        > > > One thought to consider. How did the newspapers get their
        > > > stories from their journalists? Telegraph. While I know it's
        > > > a
        > > > stretch, isn't it possible that if Lee had access to any of
        > > > these news items he got them from the wires via his
        > > > fun-loving
        > > > cavalry chieftan?
        > > >
        > > > BTW, Harry, the next time I take you to UNC it will be in
        > > > the
        > > > dead of winter and all those pretty coeds you admired so much
        > > > last time will be wearing OVERCOATS! There, I feel sooooooo
        > > > much better.
        > > >
        > > > Teej
        > > >
        > > > Harry
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        > > > Behalf Of William H Keene
        > > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:08 AM
        > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Lee and McClellan -- The
        > > > Baltimore
        > > > Sun
        > > >
        > > > I've been looking at the Baltimore Sun articles from the
        > > > time
        > > > in
        > > > question. Through the Boston Public Library online I can
        > > > access a
        > > > database called 'America's Historical Newspapers.' One has
        > > > to
        > > > have a a
        > > > BPL card tp get in the way I did, but I wonder if others can
        > > > access the
        > > > same thing through their own libraries.
        > > >
        > > > On the 4th the Sun reported that McCellan had "assumed
        > > > command
        > > > of the
        > > > entire federal forces in and around Washington."
        > > >
        > > > On the 8th the Sun reported that "McClellan will take the
        > > > field
        > > > immediately."
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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