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Re: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the river at Shepherdstown

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  • Ian Workman
    Thomas, I think that it will be fun. The dam is still there but it is under water. We have found a ton of items there over the years. I almost strictly metal
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 25, 2008
      Thomas,

      I think that it will be fun. The dam is still there but it is under water.
      We have found a ton of items there over the years. I almost strictly metal
      detected Shepherdstown for 10 years straight. We found the retreat route of
      the 118th and there were about three main ways they crosssed the river. One
      soldier lost his breastplate along the bank. I researched who it was by the
      initials carved into it but forget who it was. There is so much to tell
      about the battle that isn't in the history books. I am sure all who are
      involved will have a blast. See you there.

      Ian Workman


      On 8/25/08, Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ian,
      > We'd love to have you go along with us. We'll be doing thefording on Sept
      > 20. I think I said the "route of Barnes' brigade" and "where the 118th
      > fought", not "the route of the 118th up the bluff", but will yied to your
      > expertise of the field, I do not pretend to be an expert on that fight.
      >
      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
      > >>> "workman_ian" <cwdigger@... <cwdigger%40gmail.com>> 08/25/08
      > 8:37 PM >>>
      > Hello Everyone, Stephen and a few others pointed me in the direction of
      > this forum. I have been studying the battle of Shepherdstown for over a
      > decade through artifacts and historic texts. I plan on joining the
      > crossing and showing you guys some little things about the battle that
      > aren't in the books.
      >
      > Sincerely,
      > Ian Workman
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Stephen Recker
      Ian, Great to hear from you. It will be great to hear what you have to share. This is really going to be fun. Tom s really turned this into quite the event.
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 26, 2008
        Ian,

        Great to hear from you. It will be great to hear what you have to
        share. This is really going to be fun. Tom's really turned this into
        quite the event. What fun!

        Cheers,
        Stephen


        On Tuesday, August 26, 2008, at 02:35 AM, Ian Workman wrote:

        > Thomas,
        >
        > I think that it will be fun. The dam is still there but it is under
        > water.
        > We have found a ton of items there over the years. I almost strictly
        > metal
        > detected Shepherdstown for 10 years straight. We found the retreat
        > route of
        > the 118th and there were about three main ways they crosssed the
        > river. One
        > soldier lost his breastplate along the bank. I researched who it was
        > by the
        > initials carved into it but forget who it was. There is so much to tell
        > about the battle that isn't in the history books. I am sure all who are
        > involved will have a blast. See you there.
        >
        > Ian Workman


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Clugh
        Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited for you all just reading of the crossing event upcoming on the 20th. Unfortunately for me, I am
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 26, 2008
          Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited for you all just reading of the "crossing event" upcoming on the 20th. Unfortunately for me, I am committed to do a weekend Revolutionary War event in Kingsville, Md. I hope that you do take at least a few photos that you can perhaps share with the rest of this list.

          Have fun.

          Dave Clugh
          3rd PA Light Inf. Coy.
          www.hmisite.com
        • Ian Workman
          For eigth conn, All of the fords in that general area (near the cement mill) have several different names. However, they are only one ford. Blackford s for
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 27, 2008
            For eigth conn,

            All of the fords in that general area (near the cement mill) have several
            different names. However, they are only one ford. Blackford's for isn't near
            the train bridge as some websites show. It was much farther downstream.
            There were two ferries above the train bridge and above the stone bridge
            piers. Those stone bridge piers were from the 1850's bridge. Henry Kyd
            Douglas's father built the bridge and Henry Kyd Douglass helped burn it down
            in the beginning of the war.

            The Fords:
            The main ford is about 150 yards below the cement mill. Below that there was
            a cavalry ford. Further on down the river is what is called pack horse ford.
            This is the ford that was used by A.P. Hill's men when they made the great
            march from Harper's Ferry. Below that there is another ford below the mouth
            of the Antietam creek. The bridge that was at the mill was used as a
            crossing by the retreating 118th Pa. They all came off the cliffs in a few
            spots and ran in two different directions. There are about three lines of
            crossing above the dam. Above Shepherdstown there are about three more
            fords. The one that stuart crossed is about 1.75 miles upstream. There were
            two more above that before you get to dam no. 4. The ford at Williamsport
            butts right up to where the ferry was. It is still there but under about 6
            more feet of water than it was during the war.

            Ian Workman


            On 8/26/08, David Clugh <thirdpaclugh@...> wrote:
            >
            > Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited for you
            > all just reading of the "crossing event" upcoming on the 20th. Unfortunately
            > for me, I am committed to do a weekend Revolutionary War event in
            > Kingsville, Md. I hope that you do take at least a few photos that you can
            > perhaps share with the rest of this list.
            >
            > Have fun.
            >
            > Dave Clugh
            > 3rd PA Light Inf. Coy.
            > www.hmisite.com
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Ian, Thank you for this excellent info! In addition to personally looking at this part of the river for a long time, did you have any written references which
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 28, 2008
              Ian,

              Thank you for this excellent info!

              In addition to personally looking at this part of the river for a
              long time, did you have any written references which talked about
              these various fords? Have you written anything about them?

              In your response, did you mean "dam" versus "bridge" at the mill
              talking about the 118th PA? I didn't know that there was a bridge at
              the cement mill.

              I hope to learn more from you at the crossing event--maybe you will
              have time to show us some of these other fords?

              Thank you,
              Larry Freiheit

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Workman" <cwdigger@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > For eigth conn,
              >
              > All of the fords in that general area (near the cement mill) have
              several
              > different names. However, they are only one ford. Blackford's ford
              isn't near
              > the train bridge as some websites show. It was much farther
              downstream.
              > There were two ferries above the train bridge and above the stone
              bridge
              > piers. Those stone bridge piers were from the 1850's bridge. Henry
              Kyd
              > Douglas's father built the bridge and Henry Kyd Douglass helped
              burn it down
              > in the beginning of the war.
              >
              > The Fords:
              > The main ford is about 150 yards below the cement mill. Below that
              there was
              > a cavalry ford. Further on down the river is what is called pack
              horse ford.
              > This is the ford that was used by A.P. Hill's men when they made
              the great
              > march from Harper's Ferry. Below that there is another ford below
              the mouth
              > of the Antietam creek. The bridge that was at the mill was used as a
              > crossing by the retreating 118th Pa. They all came off the cliffs
              in a few
              > spots and ran in two different directions. There are about three
              lines of
              > crossing above the dam. Above Shepherdstown there are about three
              more
              > fords. The one that stuart crossed is about 1.75 miles upstream.
              There were
              > two more above that before you get to dam no. 4. The ford at
              Williamsport
              > butts right up to where the ferry was. It is still there but under
              about 6
              > more feet of water than it was during the war.
              >
              > Ian Workman
              >
              >
              > On 8/26/08, David Clugh <thirdpaclugh@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited
              for you
              > > all just reading of the "crossing event" upcoming on the 20th.
              Unfortunately
              > > for me, I am committed to do a weekend Revolutionary War event in
              > > Kingsville, Md. I hope that you do take at least a few photos
              that you can
              > > perhaps share with the rest of this list.
              > >
              > > Have fun.
              > >
              > > Dave Clugh
              > > 3rd PA Light Inf. Coy.
              > > www.hmisite.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Ian Workman
              Larry, I was a little tired last night. Yes...I meant the dam and not the bridge. I have not written anything about these particular fords. The only reason
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 28, 2008
                Larry,

                I was a little tired last night. Yes...I meant the dam and not the bridge. I
                have not written anything about these particular fords. The only reason that
                I know they existed is because we have found artifacts at all of them. Most
                of them are located in the Official Records of the Civil War. The dam that
                the 118th Pa crossed is still there. The basic wooden structure with
                hydrolic cement is all that is left. The mill race which was loaded with
                relics after the war is almost all gone. The big floods have wiped it all
                out. I did uncover the mill office about 5 years ago. It took a direct shell
                impact from a 3" parrot shell.

                Sincerely,
                Ian Workman


                On 8/28/08, eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
                >
                > Ian,
                >
                > Thank you for this excellent info!
                >
                > In addition to personally looking at this part of the river for a
                > long time, did you have any written references which talked about
                > these various fords? Have you written anything about them?
                >
                > In your response, did you mean "dam" versus "bridge" at the mill
                > talking about the 118th PA? I didn't know that there was a bridge at
                > the cement mill.
                >
                > I hope to learn more from you at the crossing event--maybe you will
                > have time to show us some of these other fords?
                >
                > Thank you,
                > Larry Freiheit
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ian
                > Workman" <cwdigger@...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > For eigth conn,
                > >
                > > All of the fords in that general area (near the cement mill) have
                > several
                > > different names. However, they are only one ford. Blackford's ford
                > isn't near
                > > the train bridge as some websites show. It was much farther
                > downstream.
                > > There were two ferries above the train bridge and above the stone
                > bridge
                > > piers. Those stone bridge piers were from the 1850's bridge. Henry
                > Kyd
                > > Douglas's father built the bridge and Henry Kyd Douglass helped
                > burn it down
                > > in the beginning of the war.
                > >
                > > The Fords:
                > > The main ford is about 150 yards below the cement mill. Below that
                > there was
                > > a cavalry ford. Further on down the river is what is called pack
                > horse ford.
                > > This is the ford that was used by A.P. Hill's men when they made
                > the great
                > > march from Harper's Ferry. Below that there is another ford below
                > the mouth
                > > of the Antietam creek. The bridge that was at the mill was used as a
                > > crossing by the retreating 118th Pa. They all came off the cliffs
                > in a few
                > > spots and ran in two different directions. There are about three
                > lines of
                > > crossing above the dam. Above Shepherdstown there are about three
                > more
                > > fords. The one that stuart crossed is about 1.75 miles upstream.
                > There were
                > > two more above that before you get to dam no. 4. The ford at
                > Williamsport
                > > butts right up to where the ferry was. It is still there but under
                > about 6
                > > more feet of water than it was during the war.
                > >
                > > Ian Workman
                > >
                > >
                > > On 8/26/08, David Clugh <thirdpaclugh@...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited
                > for you
                > > > all just reading of the "crossing event" upcoming on the 20th.
                > Unfortunately
                > > > for me, I am committed to do a weekend Revolutionary War event in
                > > > Kingsville, Md. I hope that you do take at least a few photos
                > that you can
                > > > perhaps share with the rest of this list.
                > > >
                > > > Have fun.
                > > >
                > > > Dave Clugh
                > > > 3rd PA Light Inf. Coy.
                > > > www.hmisite.com
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • david lutton
                Ian, Is the mill office you referred to down the road on the opposite side of the street from the mill itself? If not can you tell me what that structure was
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 28, 2008
                  Ian,

                  Is the mill office you referred to down the road on the opposite side of the street from the mill itself? If not can you tell me what that structure was used for? Several years ago I was 'milling' around the area and went inside what was left of the building. If my memory serves me well there were some civil war period graffiti on the walls.

                  David Lutton



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ian Workman
                  David, The building that you speak of is closer to trough rd. That was built right after the civil war. The one that I am speaking of was between there and the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 28, 2008
                    David,

                    The building that you speak of is closer to trough rd. That was built right
                    after the civil war. The one that I am speaking of was between there and the
                    mill on the side of the road with the bluffs. There is nothing left of it
                    anymore except for a few bricks and the large stone which was under the
                    front door. There is very little pottery in the area which may mean that it
                    was reserved for paperwork. Also, the amount of glass that came out of there
                    meant that the building more than likely had windows on all four sides. This
                    building was approximately 10 feet by 10 feet. It is across the little gully
                    where the single furnace was.

                    By the way, here is a little tidbit about the other set of furnaces. Today
                    there stands six of them all side by side. During the battle only the three
                    on the left were there. If you are looking at them from the river you can
                    tell which ones they are. The one on the far right was used to take cover
                    from Federal shells which were falling short and hitting their own men.
                    These were 3" Hotchkiss shells, 12lb caseshot, and 20lb. Parrot Shells.
                    (most of them were hotchkiss though. The one is the middle was also used to
                    take cover by another member of the 118th Pa. A shell went directly into
                    that entrance and blew him to pieces. What an awful way to go.


                    On 8/28/08, david lutton <dunkerch@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ian,
                    >
                    > Is the mill office you referred to down the road on the opposite side of
                    > the street from the mill itself? If not can you tell me what that structure
                    > was used for? Several years ago I was 'milling' around the area and went
                    > inside what was left of the building. If my memory serves me well there were
                    > some civil war period graffiti on the walls.
                    >
                    > David Lutton
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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