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Re: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the river at Shepherdstown

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Ian, We d love to have you go along with us. We ll be doing thefording on Sept 20. I think I said the route of Barnes brigade and where the 118th
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 25 8:03 PM
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      Ian,
      We'd love to have you go along with us. We'll be doing thefording on Sept 20. I think I said the "route of Barnes' brigade" and "where the 118th fought", not "the route of the 118th up the bluff", but will yied to your expertise of the field, I do not pretend to be an expert on that fight.


      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> "workman_ian" <cwdigger@...> 08/25/08 8:37 PM >>>
      Hello Everyone, Stephen and a few others pointed me in the direction of
      this forum. I have been studying the battle of Shepherdstown for over a
      decade through artifacts and historic texts. I plan on joining the
      crossing and showing you guys some little things about the battle that
      aren't in the books.

      Sincerely,
      Ian Workman
    • Ian Workman
      Thomas, I think that it will be fun. The dam is still there but it is under water. We have found a ton of items there over the years. I almost strictly metal
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 25 11:35 PM
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        Thomas,

        I think that it will be fun. The dam is still there but it is under water.
        We have found a ton of items there over the years. I almost strictly metal
        detected Shepherdstown for 10 years straight. We found the retreat route of
        the 118th and there were about three main ways they crosssed the river. One
        soldier lost his breastplate along the bank. I researched who it was by the
        initials carved into it but forget who it was. There is so much to tell
        about the battle that isn't in the history books. I am sure all who are
        involved will have a blast. See you there.

        Ian Workman


        On 8/25/08, Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ian,
        > We'd love to have you go along with us. We'll be doing thefording on Sept
        > 20. I think I said the "route of Barnes' brigade" and "where the 118th
        > fought", not "the route of the 118th up the bluff", but will yied to your
        > expertise of the field, I do not pretend to be an expert on that fight.
        >
        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        > Professor of History
        > Hagerstown Community College
        >
        > >>> "workman_ian" <cwdigger@... <cwdigger%40gmail.com>> 08/25/08
        > 8:37 PM >>>
        > Hello Everyone, Stephen and a few others pointed me in the direction of
        > this forum. I have been studying the battle of Shepherdstown for over a
        > decade through artifacts and historic texts. I plan on joining the
        > crossing and showing you guys some little things about the battle that
        > aren't in the books.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Ian Workman
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Recker
        Ian, Great to hear from you. It will be great to hear what you have to share. This is really going to be fun. Tom s really turned this into quite the event.
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 26 3:45 AM
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          Ian,

          Great to hear from you. It will be great to hear what you have to
          share. This is really going to be fun. Tom's really turned this into
          quite the event. What fun!

          Cheers,
          Stephen


          On Tuesday, August 26, 2008, at 02:35 AM, Ian Workman wrote:

          > Thomas,
          >
          > I think that it will be fun. The dam is still there but it is under
          > water.
          > We have found a ton of items there over the years. I almost strictly
          > metal
          > detected Shepherdstown for 10 years straight. We found the retreat
          > route of
          > the 118th and there were about three main ways they crosssed the
          > river. One
          > soldier lost his breastplate along the bank. I researched who it was
          > by the
          > initials carved into it but forget who it was. There is so much to tell
          > about the battle that isn't in the history books. I am sure all who are
          > involved will have a blast. See you there.
          >
          > Ian Workman


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Clugh
          Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited for you all just reading of the crossing event upcoming on the 20th. Unfortunately for me, I am
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 26 2:46 PM
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            Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited for you all just reading of the "crossing event" upcoming on the 20th. Unfortunately for me, I am committed to do a weekend Revolutionary War event in Kingsville, Md. I hope that you do take at least a few photos that you can perhaps share with the rest of this list.

            Have fun.

            Dave Clugh
            3rd PA Light Inf. Coy.
            www.hmisite.com
          • Ian Workman
            For eigth conn, All of the fords in that general area (near the cement mill) have several different names. However, they are only one ford. Blackford s for
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 27 8:16 PM
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              For eigth conn,

              All of the fords in that general area (near the cement mill) have several
              different names. However, they are only one ford. Blackford's for isn't near
              the train bridge as some websites show. It was much farther downstream.
              There were two ferries above the train bridge and above the stone bridge
              piers. Those stone bridge piers were from the 1850's bridge. Henry Kyd
              Douglas's father built the bridge and Henry Kyd Douglass helped burn it down
              in the beginning of the war.

              The Fords:
              The main ford is about 150 yards below the cement mill. Below that there was
              a cavalry ford. Further on down the river is what is called pack horse ford.
              This is the ford that was used by A.P. Hill's men when they made the great
              march from Harper's Ferry. Below that there is another ford below the mouth
              of the Antietam creek. The bridge that was at the mill was used as a
              crossing by the retreating 118th Pa. They all came off the cliffs in a few
              spots and ran in two different directions. There are about three lines of
              crossing above the dam. Above Shepherdstown there are about three more
              fords. The one that stuart crossed is about 1.75 miles upstream. There were
              two more above that before you get to dam no. 4. The ford at Williamsport
              butts right up to where the ferry was. It is still there but under about 6
              more feet of water than it was during the war.

              Ian Workman


              On 8/26/08, David Clugh <thirdpaclugh@...> wrote:
              >
              > Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited for you
              > all just reading of the "crossing event" upcoming on the 20th. Unfortunately
              > for me, I am committed to do a weekend Revolutionary War event in
              > Kingsville, Md. I hope that you do take at least a few photos that you can
              > perhaps share with the rest of this list.
              >
              > Have fun.
              >
              > Dave Clugh
              > 3rd PA Light Inf. Coy.
              > www.hmisite.com
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eighth_conn_inf
              Ian, Thank you for this excellent info! In addition to personally looking at this part of the river for a long time, did you have any written references which
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 28 5:01 AM
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                Ian,

                Thank you for this excellent info!

                In addition to personally looking at this part of the river for a
                long time, did you have any written references which talked about
                these various fords? Have you written anything about them?

                In your response, did you mean "dam" versus "bridge" at the mill
                talking about the 118th PA? I didn't know that there was a bridge at
                the cement mill.

                I hope to learn more from you at the crossing event--maybe you will
                have time to show us some of these other fords?

                Thank you,
                Larry Freiheit

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Workman" <cwdigger@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > For eigth conn,
                >
                > All of the fords in that general area (near the cement mill) have
                several
                > different names. However, they are only one ford. Blackford's ford
                isn't near
                > the train bridge as some websites show. It was much farther
                downstream.
                > There were two ferries above the train bridge and above the stone
                bridge
                > piers. Those stone bridge piers were from the 1850's bridge. Henry
                Kyd
                > Douglas's father built the bridge and Henry Kyd Douglass helped
                burn it down
                > in the beginning of the war.
                >
                > The Fords:
                > The main ford is about 150 yards below the cement mill. Below that
                there was
                > a cavalry ford. Further on down the river is what is called pack
                horse ford.
                > This is the ford that was used by A.P. Hill's men when they made
                the great
                > march from Harper's Ferry. Below that there is another ford below
                the mouth
                > of the Antietam creek. The bridge that was at the mill was used as a
                > crossing by the retreating 118th Pa. They all came off the cliffs
                in a few
                > spots and ran in two different directions. There are about three
                lines of
                > crossing above the dam. Above Shepherdstown there are about three
                more
                > fords. The one that stuart crossed is about 1.75 miles upstream.
                There were
                > two more above that before you get to dam no. 4. The ford at
                Williamsport
                > butts right up to where the ferry was. It is still there but under
                about 6
                > more feet of water than it was during the war.
                >
                > Ian Workman
                >
                >
                > On 8/26/08, David Clugh <thirdpaclugh@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited
                for you
                > > all just reading of the "crossing event" upcoming on the 20th.
                Unfortunately
                > > for me, I am committed to do a weekend Revolutionary War event in
                > > Kingsville, Md. I hope that you do take at least a few photos
                that you can
                > > perhaps share with the rest of this list.
                > >
                > > Have fun.
                > >
                > > Dave Clugh
                > > 3rd PA Light Inf. Coy.
                > > www.hmisite.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Ian Workman
                Larry, I was a little tired last night. Yes...I meant the dam and not the bridge. I have not written anything about these particular fords. The only reason
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 28 9:33 AM
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                  Larry,

                  I was a little tired last night. Yes...I meant the dam and not the bridge. I
                  have not written anything about these particular fords. The only reason that
                  I know they existed is because we have found artifacts at all of them. Most
                  of them are located in the Official Records of the Civil War. The dam that
                  the 118th Pa crossed is still there. The basic wooden structure with
                  hydrolic cement is all that is left. The mill race which was loaded with
                  relics after the war is almost all gone. The big floods have wiped it all
                  out. I did uncover the mill office about 5 years ago. It took a direct shell
                  impact from a 3" parrot shell.

                  Sincerely,
                  Ian Workman


                  On 8/28/08, eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ian,
                  >
                  > Thank you for this excellent info!
                  >
                  > In addition to personally looking at this part of the river for a
                  > long time, did you have any written references which talked about
                  > these various fords? Have you written anything about them?
                  >
                  > In your response, did you mean "dam" versus "bridge" at the mill
                  > talking about the 118th PA? I didn't know that there was a bridge at
                  > the cement mill.
                  >
                  > I hope to learn more from you at the crossing event--maybe you will
                  > have time to show us some of these other fords?
                  >
                  > Thank you,
                  > Larry Freiheit
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ian
                  > Workman" <cwdigger@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > For eigth conn,
                  > >
                  > > All of the fords in that general area (near the cement mill) have
                  > several
                  > > different names. However, they are only one ford. Blackford's ford
                  > isn't near
                  > > the train bridge as some websites show. It was much farther
                  > downstream.
                  > > There were two ferries above the train bridge and above the stone
                  > bridge
                  > > piers. Those stone bridge piers were from the 1850's bridge. Henry
                  > Kyd
                  > > Douglas's father built the bridge and Henry Kyd Douglass helped
                  > burn it down
                  > > in the beginning of the war.
                  > >
                  > > The Fords:
                  > > The main ford is about 150 yards below the cement mill. Below that
                  > there was
                  > > a cavalry ford. Further on down the river is what is called pack
                  > horse ford.
                  > > This is the ford that was used by A.P. Hill's men when they made
                  > the great
                  > > march from Harper's Ferry. Below that there is another ford below
                  > the mouth
                  > > of the Antietam creek. The bridge that was at the mill was used as a
                  > > crossing by the retreating 118th Pa. They all came off the cliffs
                  > in a few
                  > > spots and ran in two different directions. There are about three
                  > lines of
                  > > crossing above the dam. Above Shepherdstown there are about three
                  > more
                  > > fords. The one that stuart crossed is about 1.75 miles upstream.
                  > There were
                  > > two more above that before you get to dam no. 4. The ford at
                  > Williamsport
                  > > butts right up to where the ferry was. It is still there but under
                  > about 6
                  > > more feet of water than it was during the war.
                  > >
                  > > Ian Workman
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On 8/26/08, David Clugh <thirdpaclugh@...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Well, I have lurked long enough on this topic. I feel excited
                  > for you
                  > > > all just reading of the "crossing event" upcoming on the 20th.
                  > Unfortunately
                  > > > for me, I am committed to do a weekend Revolutionary War event in
                  > > > Kingsville, Md. I hope that you do take at least a few photos
                  > that you can
                  > > > perhaps share with the rest of this list.
                  > > >
                  > > > Have fun.
                  > > >
                  > > > Dave Clugh
                  > > > 3rd PA Light Inf. Coy.
                  > > > www.hmisite.com
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • david lutton
                  Ian, Is the mill office you referred to down the road on the opposite side of the street from the mill itself? If not can you tell me what that structure was
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 28 7:36 PM
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                    Ian,

                    Is the mill office you referred to down the road on the opposite side of the street from the mill itself? If not can you tell me what that structure was used for? Several years ago I was 'milling' around the area and went inside what was left of the building. If my memory serves me well there were some civil war period graffiti on the walls.

                    David Lutton



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ian Workman
                    David, The building that you speak of is closer to trough rd. That was built right after the civil war. The one that I am speaking of was between there and the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 28 8:30 PM
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                      David,

                      The building that you speak of is closer to trough rd. That was built right
                      after the civil war. The one that I am speaking of was between there and the
                      mill on the side of the road with the bluffs. There is nothing left of it
                      anymore except for a few bricks and the large stone which was under the
                      front door. There is very little pottery in the area which may mean that it
                      was reserved for paperwork. Also, the amount of glass that came out of there
                      meant that the building more than likely had windows on all four sides. This
                      building was approximately 10 feet by 10 feet. It is across the little gully
                      where the single furnace was.

                      By the way, here is a little tidbit about the other set of furnaces. Today
                      there stands six of them all side by side. During the battle only the three
                      on the left were there. If you are looking at them from the river you can
                      tell which ones they are. The one on the far right was used to take cover
                      from Federal shells which were falling short and hitting their own men.
                      These were 3" Hotchkiss shells, 12lb caseshot, and 20lb. Parrot Shells.
                      (most of them were hotchkiss though. The one is the middle was also used to
                      take cover by another member of the 118th Pa. A shell went directly into
                      that entrance and blew him to pieces. What an awful way to go.


                      On 8/28/08, david lutton <dunkerch@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ian,
                      >
                      > Is the mill office you referred to down the road on the opposite side of
                      > the street from the mill itself? If not can you tell me what that structure
                      > was used for? Several years ago I was 'milling' around the area and went
                      > inside what was left of the building. If my memory serves me well there were
                      > some civil war period graffiti on the walls.
                      >
                      > David Lutton
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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