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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.

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  • G E Mayers
    Dear Larry, Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being the anchor of the left
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
      Dear Larry,

      Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
      Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
      the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
      bend.

      I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
      and Sears mention it in their books.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


      Tom,

      I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
      including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
      writing about this "command."

      Larry

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
      <clemenst@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Gerry,
      > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
      > Jackson
      used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
      labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
      unaware
      of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
      > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ.
      > No
      doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
      there
      are "thin."
      >
      >
      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
      >
      > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
      > Teej;
      >
      > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
      > and
      > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
      > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
      > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
      > found if needed.
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
      > from
      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Teej" <teej@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
      > >
      > > <Snip>
      > >
      > > However, does anyone know where
      > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
      > >> infamously
      > >> said, "in the saddle"?
      > >
      > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
      > > like
      > > to point out
      > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
      > > Stuart often
      > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
      > > days." I suspect
      > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Teej
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Larry, I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh documents Stuart s presence on Jackson s left flank very well. Tom Clemens, can you help
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
        Dear Larry,

        I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
        documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.

        Tom Clemens, can you help here?

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


        Gerry,
        Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
        things.

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Dear Larry,
        >
        > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
        > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
        > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
        > bend.
        >
        > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
        > and Sears mention it in their books.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
        > from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
        >
        >
        > Tom,
        >
        > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
        > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
        > writing about this "command."
        >
        > Larry
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
        > <clemenst@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Gerry,
        > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
        > > Jackson
        > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
        > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
        > unaware
        > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
        > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
        > > HQ.
        > > No
        > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
        > there
        > are "thin."
        > >
        > >
        > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        > > Professor of History
        > > Hagerstown Community College
        > >
        > >
        > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
        > > Teej;
        > >
        > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
        > > and
        > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
        > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
        > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
        > > be
        > > found if needed.
        > >
        > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        > >
        > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
        > > even
        > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
        > > the
        > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
        > > from
        > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
        > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
        > > >
        > > > <Snip>
        > > >
        > > > However, does anyone know where
        > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
        > > >> infamously
        > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
        > > >
        > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
        > > > like
        > > > to point out
        > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
        > > > Stuart often
        > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
        > > > days." I suspect
        > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
        > > >
        > > > Regards,
        > > > Teej
        > > >>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        >
      • eighth_conn_inf
        Gerry, Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different things.
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
          Gerry,
          Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
          things.

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Dear Larry,
          >
          > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
          > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
          > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
          > bend.
          >
          > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
          > and Sears mention it in their books.
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
          >
          >
          > Tom,
          >
          > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
          > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
          > writing about this "command."
          >
          > Larry
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
          > <clemenst@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Gerry,
          > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
          > > Jackson
          > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
          > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
          > unaware
          > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
          > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ.
          > > No
          > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
          > there
          > are "thin."
          > >
          > >
          > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > > Professor of History
          > > Hagerstown Community College
          > >
          > >
          > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
          > > Teej;
          > >
          > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
          > > and
          > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
          > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
          > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
          > > found if needed.
          > >
          > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          > >
          > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
          > > from
          > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
          > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
          > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
          > >
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
          > > >
          > > > <Snip>
          > > >
          > > > However, does anyone know where
          > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
          > > >> infamously
          > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
          > > >
          > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
          > > > like
          > > > to point out
          > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
          > > > Stuart often
          > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
          > > > days." I suspect
          > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
          > > >
          > > > Regards,
          > > > Teej
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          >
        • Harry Smeltzer
          I think Larry is questioning Stuart being in command on the left, not his presence there. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
            I think Larry is questioning Stuart being "in command" on the left, not his
            presence there.

            Harry



            -----Original Message-----
            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of G E Mayers
            Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:40 PM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.



            Dear Larry,

            I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
            documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.

            Tom Clemens, can you help here?

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_ <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
            inf@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.

            Gerry,
            Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
            things.

            --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Dear Larry,
            >
            > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
            > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
            > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
            > bend.
            >
            > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
            > and Sears mention it in their books.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
            >
            >
            > Tom,
            >
            > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
            > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
            > writing about this "command."
            >
            > Larry
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
            > <clemenst@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Gerry,
            > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
            > > Jackson
            > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
            > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
            > unaware
            > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
            > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
            > > HQ.
            > > No
            > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
            > there
            > are "thin."
            > >
            > >
            > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > > Professor of History
            > > Hagerstown Community College
            > >
            > >
            > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
            > > Teej;
            > >
            > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
            > > and
            > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
            > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
            > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
            > > be
            > > found if needed.
            > >
            > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            > >
            > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
            > > even
            > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
            > > the
            > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > > from
            > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
            > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
            > > >
            > > > <Snip>
            > > >
            > > > However, does anyone know where
            > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
            > > >> infamously
            > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
            > > >
            > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
            > > > like
            > > > to point out
            > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
            > > > Stuart often
            > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
            > > > days." I suspect
            > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
            > > >
            > > > Regards,
            > > > Teej
            > > >>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Gerry, Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh s books with a pristine duplicate copy of Taken at the Flood signed by him since my original is marked up. I
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
              Gerry,

              Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh's books with a pristine
              duplicate copy of "Taken at the Flood" signed by him since my
              original is marked up. I do see in von Borcke's book (160-1) that
              Jackson put Stuart in charge of the "left wing" of his corps even
              though there were no official Rebel "corps" then. But von Borcke is
              sometimes somewhat fast and loose with facts.

              Robert E. L. Krick says that Jackson and Stuart must have worked out
              some arrangement re the defense of the left flank since Jackson never
              visited Nicodemus Heights ("Defending Lee's Flank: J.E.B. Stuart,
              John Pelham, and COnfederate Artillery on Nicodemus Heights," in "The
              Antietam Campaign, ed. Gary W. Gallagher, pp. 201, 207-8, 217, n. 11.
              Compare also Priest, Antietam, 30, 33, 59, 89; Blackford, 149-150;
              Murfin, 235; Carman, 220, 221, 303.

              It is likely that Jackson verbally put Stuart in some sort of command
              since his troopers were on Jackson's left and also Stuart with his
              horse artillery with other artillery were on Nicodemus Hill then
              Hauser's Ridge. I will go with the above in the absence of harder
              evidence.

              Thank you,
              Larry

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Dear Larry,
              >
              > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
              > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
              >
              > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
              >
              >
              > Gerry,
              > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
              > things.
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Larry,
              > >
              > > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
              > > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
              > > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
              > > bend.
              > >
              > > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
              > > and Sears mention it in their books.
              > >
              > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              > >
              > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > > from
              > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
              > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
              > >
              > >
              > > Tom,
              > >
              > > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
              > > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
              > > writing about this "command."
              > >
              > > Larry
              > >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
              > > <clemenst@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Gerry,
              > > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
              > > > Jackson
              > > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
              > > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
              > > unaware
              > > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
              > > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
              > > > HQ.
              > > > No
              > > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
              > > there
              > > are "thin."
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              > > > Professor of History
              > > > Hagerstown Community College
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
              > > > Teej;
              > > >
              > > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
              > > > and
              > > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
              > > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
              > > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
              > > > be
              > > > found if needed.
              > > >
              > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              > > >
              > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
              > > > even
              > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
              > > > the
              > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > > > from
              > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
              > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
              > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > <Snip>
              > > > >
              > > > > However, does anyone know where
              > > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
              > > > >> infamously
              > > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
              > > > >
              > > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
              > > > > like
              > > > > to point out
              > > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
              > > > > Stuart often
              > > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
              > > > > days." I suspect
              > > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
              > > > >
              > > > > Regards,
              > > > > Teej
              > > > >>
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ------------------------------------
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • G E Mayers
              Well, Stuart was in command of his cavalry forces as well as the horse artillery on Nicodemus Heights. He and Jackson worked very closely together to keep the
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
                Well, Stuart was in command of his cavalry forces as well as the
                horse artillery on Nicodemus Heights. He and Jackson worked very
                closely together to keep the flank area between Jackson and the
                Potomac secure. IIRC.

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:59 PM
                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                >I think Larry is questioning Stuart being "in command" on the
                >left, not his
                > presence there.
                >
                > Harry
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of G E Mayers
                > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:40 PM
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                >
                >
                >
                > Dear Larry,
                >
                > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                >
                > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > from
                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_
                > <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                > inf@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                >
                > Gerry,
                > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two
                > different
                > things.
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                > wrote:
                >>
                >> Dear Larry,
                >>
                >> Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                >> Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                >> the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                >> bend.
                >>
                >> I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                >> and Sears mention it in their books.
                >>
                >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >>
                >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                >> even
                >> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                >> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                >> from
                >> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                >> ----- Original Message -----
                >> From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                >> To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com>
                >> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                >>
                >>
                >> Tom,
                >>
                >> I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                >> including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                >> writing about this "command."
                >>
                >> Larry
                >>
                >> --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                >> <clemenst@>
                >> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > Gerry,
                >> > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                >> > Jackson
                >> used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                >> labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                >> unaware
                >> of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                >> > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                >> > HQ.
                >> > No
                >> doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                >> there
                >> are "thin."
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                >> > Professor of History
                >> > Hagerstown Community College
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                >> > Teej;
                >> >
                >> > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both
                >> > Stuart
                >> > and
                >> > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                >> > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                >> > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                >> > be
                >> > found if needed.
                >> >
                >> > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                >> > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >> >
                >> > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                >> > even
                >> > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                >> > the
                >> > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                >> > from
                >> > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                >> > ----- Original Message -----
                >> > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                >> > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                > yahoogroups.com>
                >> > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                >> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > >
                >> > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                >> > >
                >> > > <Snip>
                >> > >
                >> > > However, does anyone know where
                >> > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                >> > >> infamously
                >> > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                >> > >
                >> > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                >> > > like
                >> > > to point out
                >> > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                >> > > Stuart often
                >> > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                >> > > days." I suspect
                >> > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                >> > >
                >> > > Regards,
                >> > > Teej
                >> > >>
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > > ------------------------------------
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ------------------------------------
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >> >
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • G E Mayers
                Larry, What you say makes perfect sense and ties in with everything I have read. It is a fact that Jackson and Stuart very often worked closely together. It
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
                  Larry,

                  What you say makes perfect sense and ties in with everything I
                  have read.

                  It is a fact that Jackson and Stuart very often worked closely
                  together. It would not surprise me that Stuart had "verbal"
                  orders from Jackson to do precisely as you say or that the both
                  of them had reviewed the sector where Jackson was posted and came
                  to an agreement respecting division of forces.

                  IIRC the term "corps" was being used rather loosely at the time
                  and was pretty much understood as such, even though officially
                  both Jackson and Longstreet commanded Wings of the Army of
                  Northern Va. R E Lee was indeed considering how to effectively
                  delegate control of portions of his army to senior lieutenants.
                  If anything, the experience of The Seven Days taught him it is
                  much easier to have a handful of trusted subordinated reporting
                  directly to him rather than a dozen!

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:09 PM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                  Gerry,

                  Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh's books with a pristine
                  duplicate copy of "Taken at the Flood" signed by him since my
                  original is marked up. I do see in von Borcke's book (160-1) that
                  Jackson put Stuart in charge of the "left wing" of his corps even
                  though there were no official Rebel "corps" then. But von Borcke
                  is
                  sometimes somewhat fast and loose with facts.

                  Robert E. L. Krick says that Jackson and Stuart must have worked
                  out
                  some arrangement re the defense of the left flank since Jackson
                  never
                  visited Nicodemus Heights ("Defending Lee's Flank: J.E.B. Stuart,
                  John Pelham, and COnfederate Artillery on Nicodemus Heights," in
                  "The
                  Antietam Campaign, ed. Gary W. Gallagher, pp. 201, 207-8, 217, n.
                  11.
                  Compare also Priest, Antietam, 30, 33, 59, 89; Blackford,
                  149-150;
                  Murfin, 235; Carman, 220, 221, 303.

                  It is likely that Jackson verbally put Stuart in some sort of
                  command
                  since his troopers were on Jackson's left and also Stuart with
                  his
                  horse artillery with other artillery were on Nicodemus Hill then
                  Hauser's Ridge. I will go with the above in the absence of harder
                  evidence.

                  Thank you,
                  Larry

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Larry,
                  >
                  > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                  > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                  >
                  > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  >
                  >
                  > Gerry,
                  > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two
                  > different
                  > things.
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear Larry,
                  > >
                  > > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                  > > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect
                  > > being
                  > > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                  > > bend.
                  > >
                  > > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even
                  > > Murfin
                  > > and Sears mention it in their books.
                  > >
                  > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > >
                  > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                  > > even
                  > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                  > > the
                  > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > > from
                  > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                  > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                  > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Tom,
                  > >
                  > > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the
                  > > left
                  > > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything
                  > > in
                  > > writing about this "command."
                  > >
                  > > Larry
                  > >
                  > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                  > > <clemenst@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Gerry,
                  > > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                  > > > Jackson
                  > > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This
                  > > is
                  > > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                  > > unaware
                  > > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                  > > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                  > > > HQ.
                  > > > No
                  > > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                  > > there
                  > > are "thin."
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > > > Professor of History
                  > > > Hagerstown Community College
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                  > > > Teej;
                  > > >
                  > > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both
                  > > > Stuart
                  > > > and
                  > > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                  > > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                  > > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                  > > > be
                  > > > found if needed.
                  > > >
                  > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > > >
                  > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                  > > > even
                  > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                  > > > the
                  > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > > > from
                  > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                  > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                  > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > <Snip>
                  > > > >
                  > > > > However, does anyone know where
                  > > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                  > > > >> infamously
                  > > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                  > > > > like
                  > > > > to point out
                  > > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that
                  > > > > phrase,
                  > > > > Stuart often
                  > > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                  > > > > days." I suspect
                  > > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Regards,
                  > > > > Teej
                  > > > >>
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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