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Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    Tom, I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can t find anything in writing about this
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 8 9:03 AM
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      Tom,

      I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
      including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
      writing about this "command."

      Larry

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Gerry,
      > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that Jackson
      used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
      labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am unaware
      of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
      > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ. No
      doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being there
      are "thin."
      >
      >
      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
      >
      > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
      > Teej;
      >
      > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart and
      > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
      > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
      > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
      > found if needed.
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Teej" <teej@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
      > >
      > > <Snip>
      > >
      > > However, does anyone know where
      > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope infamously
      > >> said, "in the saddle"?
      > >
      > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd like
      > > to point out
      > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
      > > Stuart often
      > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
      > > days." I suspect
      > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Teej
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Larry, Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being the anchor of the left
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 8 9:18 AM
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        Dear Larry,

        Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
        Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
        the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
        bend.

        I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
        and Sears mention it in their books.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


        Tom,

        I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
        including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
        writing about this "command."

        Larry

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
        <clemenst@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Gerry,
        > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
        > Jackson
        used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
        labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
        unaware
        of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
        > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ.
        > No
        doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
        there
        are "thin."
        >
        >
        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        > Professor of History
        > Hagerstown Community College
        >
        >
        > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
        > Teej;
        >
        > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
        > and
        > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
        > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
        > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
        > found if needed.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
        > from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Teej" <teej@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
        > >
        > > <Snip>
        > >
        > > However, does anyone know where
        > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
        > >> infamously
        > >> said, "in the saddle"?
        > >
        > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
        > > like
        > > to point out
        > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
        > > Stuart often
        > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
        > > days." I suspect
        > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > > Teej
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
      • G E Mayers
        Dear Larry, I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh documents Stuart s presence on Jackson s left flank very well. Tom Clemens, can you help
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 8 9:39 AM
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          Dear Larry,

          I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
          documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.

          Tom Clemens, can you help here?

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


          Gerry,
          Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
          things.

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Dear Larry,
          >
          > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
          > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
          > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
          > bend.
          >
          > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
          > and Sears mention it in their books.
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
          > from
          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
          >
          >
          > Tom,
          >
          > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
          > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
          > writing about this "command."
          >
          > Larry
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
          > <clemenst@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Gerry,
          > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
          > > Jackson
          > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
          > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
          > unaware
          > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
          > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
          > > HQ.
          > > No
          > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
          > there
          > are "thin."
          > >
          > >
          > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > > Professor of History
          > > Hagerstown Community College
          > >
          > >
          > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
          > > Teej;
          > >
          > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
          > > and
          > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
          > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
          > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
          > > be
          > > found if needed.
          > >
          > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          > >
          > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
          > > even
          > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
          > > the
          > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
          > > from
          > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
          > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
          > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
          > >
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
          > > >
          > > > <Snip>
          > > >
          > > > However, does anyone know where
          > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
          > > >> infamously
          > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
          > > >
          > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
          > > > like
          > > > to point out
          > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
          > > > Stuart often
          > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
          > > > days." I suspect
          > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
          > > >
          > > > Regards,
          > > > Teej
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          >
        • eighth_conn_inf
          Gerry, Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different things.
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 8 9:39 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Gerry,
            Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
            things.

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Dear Larry,
            >
            > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
            > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
            > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
            > bend.
            >
            > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
            > and Sears mention it in their books.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
            >
            >
            > Tom,
            >
            > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
            > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
            > writing about this "command."
            >
            > Larry
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
            > <clemenst@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Gerry,
            > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
            > > Jackson
            > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
            > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
            > unaware
            > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
            > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ.
            > > No
            > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
            > there
            > are "thin."
            > >
            > >
            > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > > Professor of History
            > > Hagerstown Community College
            > >
            > >
            > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
            > > Teej;
            > >
            > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
            > > and
            > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
            > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
            > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
            > > found if needed.
            > >
            > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            > >
            > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > > from
            > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
            > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
            > > >
            > > > <Snip>
            > > >
            > > > However, does anyone know where
            > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
            > > >> infamously
            > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
            > > >
            > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
            > > > like
            > > > to point out
            > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
            > > > Stuart often
            > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
            > > > days." I suspect
            > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
            > > >
            > > > Regards,
            > > > Teej
            > > >>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            >
          • Harry Smeltzer
            I think Larry is questioning Stuart being in command on the left, not his presence there. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 8 9:59 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              I think Larry is questioning Stuart being "in command" on the left, not his
              presence there.

              Harry



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of G E Mayers
              Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:40 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.



              Dear Larry,

              I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
              documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.

              Tom Clemens, can you help here?

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_ <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
              inf@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.

              Gerry,
              Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
              things.

              --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Dear Larry,
              >
              > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
              > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
              > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
              > bend.
              >
              > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
              > and Sears mention it in their books.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
              >
              >
              > Tom,
              >
              > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
              > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
              > writing about this "command."
              >
              > Larry
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
              > <clemenst@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Gerry,
              > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
              > > Jackson
              > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
              > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
              > unaware
              > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
              > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
              > > HQ.
              > > No
              > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
              > there
              > are "thin."
              > >
              > >
              > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              > > Professor of History
              > > Hagerstown Community College
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
              > > Teej;
              > >
              > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
              > > and
              > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
              > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
              > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
              > > be
              > > found if needed.
              > >
              > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              > >
              > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
              > > even
              > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
              > > the
              > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > > from
              > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
              > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
              > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
              > > >
              > > > <Snip>
              > > >
              > > > However, does anyone know where
              > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
              > > >> infamously
              > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
              > > >
              > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
              > > > like
              > > > to point out
              > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
              > > > Stuart often
              > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
              > > > days." I suspect
              > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
              > > >
              > > > Regards,
              > > > Teej
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eighth_conn_inf
              Gerry, Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh s books with a pristine duplicate copy of Taken at the Flood signed by him since my original is marked up. I
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 8 10:09 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Gerry,

                Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh's books with a pristine
                duplicate copy of "Taken at the Flood" signed by him since my
                original is marked up. I do see in von Borcke's book (160-1) that
                Jackson put Stuart in charge of the "left wing" of his corps even
                though there were no official Rebel "corps" then. But von Borcke is
                sometimes somewhat fast and loose with facts.

                Robert E. L. Krick says that Jackson and Stuart must have worked out
                some arrangement re the defense of the left flank since Jackson never
                visited Nicodemus Heights ("Defending Lee's Flank: J.E.B. Stuart,
                John Pelham, and COnfederate Artillery on Nicodemus Heights," in "The
                Antietam Campaign, ed. Gary W. Gallagher, pp. 201, 207-8, 217, n. 11.
                Compare also Priest, Antietam, 30, 33, 59, 89; Blackford, 149-150;
                Murfin, 235; Carman, 220, 221, 303.

                It is likely that Jackson verbally put Stuart in some sort of command
                since his troopers were on Jackson's left and also Stuart with his
                horse artillery with other artillery were on Nicodemus Hill then
                Hauser's Ridge. I will go with the above in the absence of harder
                evidence.

                Thank you,
                Larry

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Dear Larry,
                >
                > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                >
                > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                >
                >
                > Gerry,
                > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
                > things.
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Dear Larry,
                > >
                > > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                > > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                > > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                > > bend.
                > >
                > > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                > > and Sears mention it in their books.
                > >
                > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > >
                > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > > from
                > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                > >
                > >
                > > Tom,
                > >
                > > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                > > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                > > writing about this "command."
                > >
                > > Larry
                > >
                > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                > > <clemenst@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Gerry,
                > > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                > > > Jackson
                > > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                > > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                > > unaware
                > > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                > > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                > > > HQ.
                > > > No
                > > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                > > there
                > > are "thin."
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > > > Professor of History
                > > > Hagerstown Community College
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                > > > Teej;
                > > >
                > > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
                > > > and
                > > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                > > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                > > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                > > > be
                > > > found if needed.
                > > >
                > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > > >
                > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                > > > even
                > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                > > > the
                > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > > > from
                > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > <Snip>
                > > > >
                > > > > However, does anyone know where
                > > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                > > > >> infamously
                > > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                > > > >
                > > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                > > > > like
                > > > > to point out
                > > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                > > > > Stuart often
                > > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                > > > > days." I suspect
                > > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                > > > >
                > > > > Regards,
                > > > > Teej
                > > > >>
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ------------------------------------
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • G E Mayers
                Well, Stuart was in command of his cavalry forces as well as the horse artillery on Nicodemus Heights. He and Jackson worked very closely together to keep the
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 8 10:15 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well, Stuart was in command of his cavalry forces as well as the
                  horse artillery on Nicodemus Heights. He and Jackson worked very
                  closely together to keep the flank area between Jackson and the
                  Potomac secure. IIRC.

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:59 PM
                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                  >I think Larry is questioning Stuart being "in command" on the
                  >left, not his
                  > presence there.
                  >
                  > Harry
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of G E Mayers
                  > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:40 PM
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dear Larry,
                  >
                  > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                  > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                  >
                  > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_
                  > <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                  > inf@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  >
                  > Gerry,
                  > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two
                  > different
                  > things.
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Dear Larry,
                  >>
                  >> Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                  >> Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                  >> the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                  >> bend.
                  >>
                  >> I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                  >> and Sears mention it in their books.
                  >>
                  >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >>
                  >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                  >> even
                  >> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  >> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  >> from
                  >> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  >> To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com>
                  >> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                  >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Tom,
                  >>
                  >> I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                  >> including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                  >> writing about this "command."
                  >>
                  >> Larry
                  >>
                  >> --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                  >> <clemenst@>
                  >> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > Gerry,
                  >> > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                  >> > Jackson
                  >> used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                  >> labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                  >> unaware
                  >> of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                  >> > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                  >> > HQ.
                  >> > No
                  >> doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                  >> there
                  >> are "thin."
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  >> > Professor of History
                  >> > Hagerstown Community College
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                  >> > Teej;
                  >> >
                  >> > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both
                  >> > Stuart
                  >> > and
                  >> > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                  >> > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                  >> > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                  >> > be
                  >> > found if needed.
                  >> >
                  >> > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  >> > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >> >
                  >> > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                  >> > even
                  >> > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                  >> > the
                  >> > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  >> > from
                  >> > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  >> > ----- Original Message -----
                  >> > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                  >> > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > yahoogroups.com>
                  >> > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                  >> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                  >> > >
                  >> > > <Snip>
                  >> > >
                  >> > > However, does anyone know where
                  >> > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                  >> > >> infamously
                  >> > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                  >> > >
                  >> > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                  >> > > like
                  >> > > to point out
                  >> > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                  >> > > Stuart often
                  >> > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                  >> > > days." I suspect
                  >> > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Regards,
                  >> > > Teej
                  >> > >>
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > > ------------------------------------
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > ------------------------------------
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • G E Mayers
                  Larry, What you say makes perfect sense and ties in with everything I have read. It is a fact that Jackson and Stuart very often worked closely together. It
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 8 10:18 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Larry,

                    What you say makes perfect sense and ties in with everything I
                    have read.

                    It is a fact that Jackson and Stuart very often worked closely
                    together. It would not surprise me that Stuart had "verbal"
                    orders from Jackson to do precisely as you say or that the both
                    of them had reviewed the sector where Jackson was posted and came
                    to an agreement respecting division of forces.

                    IIRC the term "corps" was being used rather loosely at the time
                    and was pretty much understood as such, even though officially
                    both Jackson and Longstreet commanded Wings of the Army of
                    Northern Va. R E Lee was indeed considering how to effectively
                    delegate control of portions of his army to senior lieutenants.
                    If anything, the experience of The Seven Days taught him it is
                    much easier to have a handful of trusted subordinated reporting
                    directly to him rather than a dozen!

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:09 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                    Gerry,

                    Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh's books with a pristine
                    duplicate copy of "Taken at the Flood" signed by him since my
                    original is marked up. I do see in von Borcke's book (160-1) that
                    Jackson put Stuart in charge of the "left wing" of his corps even
                    though there were no official Rebel "corps" then. But von Borcke
                    is
                    sometimes somewhat fast and loose with facts.

                    Robert E. L. Krick says that Jackson and Stuart must have worked
                    out
                    some arrangement re the defense of the left flank since Jackson
                    never
                    visited Nicodemus Heights ("Defending Lee's Flank: J.E.B. Stuart,
                    John Pelham, and COnfederate Artillery on Nicodemus Heights," in
                    "The
                    Antietam Campaign, ed. Gary W. Gallagher, pp. 201, 207-8, 217, n.
                    11.
                    Compare also Priest, Antietam, 30, 33, 59, 89; Blackford,
                    149-150;
                    Murfin, 235; Carman, 220, 221, 303.

                    It is likely that Jackson verbally put Stuart in some sort of
                    command
                    since his troopers were on Jackson's left and also Stuart with
                    his
                    horse artillery with other artillery were on Nicodemus Hill then
                    Hauser's Ridge. I will go with the above in the absence of harder
                    evidence.

                    Thank you,
                    Larry

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Larry,
                    >
                    > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                    > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                    >
                    > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                    >
                    > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >
                    > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    > from
                    > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    >
                    >
                    > Gerry,
                    > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two
                    > different
                    > things.
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dear Larry,
                    > >
                    > > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                    > > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect
                    > > being
                    > > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                    > > bend.
                    > >
                    > > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even
                    > > Murfin
                    > > and Sears mention it in their books.
                    > >
                    > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    > >
                    > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                    > > even
                    > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                    > > the
                    > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    > > from
                    > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                    > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                    > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Tom,
                    > >
                    > > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the
                    > > left
                    > > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything
                    > > in
                    > > writing about this "command."
                    > >
                    > > Larry
                    > >
                    > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                    > > <clemenst@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Gerry,
                    > > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                    > > > Jackson
                    > > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This
                    > > is
                    > > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                    > > unaware
                    > > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                    > > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                    > > > HQ.
                    > > > No
                    > > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                    > > there
                    > > are "thin."
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > > > Professor of History
                    > > > Hagerstown Community College
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                    > > > Teej;
                    > > >
                    > > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both
                    > > > Stuart
                    > > > and
                    > > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                    > > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                    > > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                    > > > be
                    > > > found if needed.
                    > > >
                    > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    > > >
                    > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                    > > > even
                    > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                    > > > the
                    > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    > > > from
                    > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                    > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                    > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > <Snip>
                    > > > >
                    > > > > However, does anyone know where
                    > > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                    > > > >> infamously
                    > > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                    > > > > like
                    > > > > to point out
                    > > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that
                    > > > > phrase,
                    > > > > Stuart often
                    > > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                    > > > > days." I suspect
                    > > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Regards,
                    > > > > Teej
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
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