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Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Gerry, There is no official source for it, legend has it that Jackson used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is labeled on many maps as
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 8 7:59 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Gerry,
      There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that Jackson used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am unaware of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
      I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ. No doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being there are "thin."


      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
      Teej;

      Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart and
      Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
      Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
      particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
      found if needed.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Teej" <teej@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.


      >
      > Gerry Mayers wrote:
      >
      > <Snip>
      >
      > However, does anyone know where
      >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope infamously
      >> said, "in the saddle"?
      >
      > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd like
      > to point out
      > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
      > Stuart often
      > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
      > days." I suspect
      > that was a common cavalry phrase.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Teej
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >



      ------------------------------------


      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Tom, I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can t find anything in writing about this
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 8 9:03 AM
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        Tom,

        I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
        including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
        writing about this "command."

        Larry

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Gerry,
        > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that Jackson
        used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
        labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am unaware
        of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
        > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ. No
        doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being there
        are "thin."
        >
        >
        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        > Professor of History
        > Hagerstown Community College
        >
        >
        > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
        > Teej;
        >
        > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart and
        > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
        > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
        > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
        > found if needed.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Teej" <teej@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
        > >
        > > <Snip>
        > >
        > > However, does anyone know where
        > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope infamously
        > >> said, "in the saddle"?
        > >
        > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd like
        > > to point out
        > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
        > > Stuart often
        > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
        > > days." I suspect
        > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > > Teej
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
      • G E Mayers
        Dear Larry, Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being the anchor of the left
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 8 9:18 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Larry,

          Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
          Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
          the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
          bend.

          I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
          and Sears mention it in their books.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


          Tom,

          I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
          including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
          writing about this "command."

          Larry

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
          <clemenst@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Gerry,
          > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
          > Jackson
          used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
          labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
          unaware
          of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
          > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ.
          > No
          doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
          there
          are "thin."
          >
          >
          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > Professor of History
          > Hagerstown Community College
          >
          >
          > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
          > Teej;
          >
          > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
          > and
          > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
          > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
          > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
          > found if needed.
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
          > from
          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Teej" <teej@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
          > >
          > > <Snip>
          > >
          > > However, does anyone know where
          > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
          > >> infamously
          > >> said, "in the saddle"?
          > >
          > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
          > > like
          > > to point out
          > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
          > > Stuart often
          > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
          > > days." I suspect
          > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > > Teej
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
        • G E Mayers
          Dear Larry, I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh documents Stuart s presence on Jackson s left flank very well. Tom Clemens, can you help
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 8 9:39 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Larry,

            I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
            documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.

            Tom Clemens, can you help here?

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


            Gerry,
            Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
            things.

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Dear Larry,
            >
            > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
            > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
            > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
            > bend.
            >
            > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
            > and Sears mention it in their books.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
            >
            >
            > Tom,
            >
            > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
            > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
            > writing about this "command."
            >
            > Larry
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
            > <clemenst@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Gerry,
            > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
            > > Jackson
            > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
            > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
            > unaware
            > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
            > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
            > > HQ.
            > > No
            > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
            > there
            > are "thin."
            > >
            > >
            > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > > Professor of History
            > > Hagerstown Community College
            > >
            > >
            > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
            > > Teej;
            > >
            > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
            > > and
            > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
            > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
            > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
            > > be
            > > found if needed.
            > >
            > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            > >
            > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
            > > even
            > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
            > > the
            > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > > from
            > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
            > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
            > > >
            > > > <Snip>
            > > >
            > > > However, does anyone know where
            > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
            > > >> infamously
            > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
            > > >
            > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
            > > > like
            > > > to point out
            > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
            > > > Stuart often
            > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
            > > > days." I suspect
            > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
            > > >
            > > > Regards,
            > > > Teej
            > > >>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            >
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Gerry, Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different things.
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 8 9:39 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Gerry,
              Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
              things.

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Dear Larry,
              >
              > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
              > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
              > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
              > bend.
              >
              > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
              > and Sears mention it in their books.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
              >
              >
              > Tom,
              >
              > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
              > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
              > writing about this "command."
              >
              > Larry
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
              > <clemenst@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Gerry,
              > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
              > > Jackson
              > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
              > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
              > unaware
              > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
              > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ.
              > > No
              > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
              > there
              > are "thin."
              > >
              > >
              > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              > > Professor of History
              > > Hagerstown Community College
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
              > > Teej;
              > >
              > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
              > > and
              > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
              > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
              > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
              > > found if needed.
              > >
              > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              > >
              > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > > from
              > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
              > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
              > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
              > > >
              > > > <Snip>
              > > >
              > > > However, does anyone know where
              > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
              > > >> infamously
              > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
              > > >
              > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
              > > > like
              > > > to point out
              > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
              > > > Stuart often
              > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
              > > > days." I suspect
              > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
              > > >
              > > > Regards,
              > > > Teej
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              >
            • Harry Smeltzer
              I think Larry is questioning Stuart being in command on the left, not his presence there. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 8 9:59 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                I think Larry is questioning Stuart being "in command" on the left, not his
                presence there.

                Harry



                -----Original Message-----
                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of G E Mayers
                Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:40 PM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.



                Dear Larry,

                I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.

                Tom Clemens, can you help here?

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_ <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                inf@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.

                Gerry,
                Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
                things.

                --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Dear Larry,
                >
                > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                > bend.
                >
                > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                > and Sears mention it in their books.
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > from
                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                >
                >
                > Tom,
                >
                > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                > writing about this "command."
                >
                > Larry
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                > <clemenst@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Gerry,
                > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                > > Jackson
                > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                > unaware
                > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                > > HQ.
                > > No
                > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                > there
                > are "thin."
                > >
                > >
                > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > > Professor of History
                > > Hagerstown Community College
                > >
                > >
                > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                > > Teej;
                > >
                > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
                > > and
                > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                > > be
                > > found if needed.
                > >
                > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > >
                > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                > > even
                > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                > > the
                > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > > from
                > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                > >
                > >
                > > >
                > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                > > >
                > > > <Snip>
                > > >
                > > > However, does anyone know where
                > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                > > >> infamously
                > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                > > >
                > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                > > > like
                > > > to point out
                > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                > > > Stuart often
                > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                > > > days." I suspect
                > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                > > >
                > > > Regards,
                > > > Teej
                > > >>
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • eighth_conn_inf
                Gerry, Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh s books with a pristine duplicate copy of Taken at the Flood signed by him since my original is marked up. I
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 8 10:09 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gerry,

                  Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh's books with a pristine
                  duplicate copy of "Taken at the Flood" signed by him since my
                  original is marked up. I do see in von Borcke's book (160-1) that
                  Jackson put Stuart in charge of the "left wing" of his corps even
                  though there were no official Rebel "corps" then. But von Borcke is
                  sometimes somewhat fast and loose with facts.

                  Robert E. L. Krick says that Jackson and Stuart must have worked out
                  some arrangement re the defense of the left flank since Jackson never
                  visited Nicodemus Heights ("Defending Lee's Flank: J.E.B. Stuart,
                  John Pelham, and COnfederate Artillery on Nicodemus Heights," in "The
                  Antietam Campaign, ed. Gary W. Gallagher, pp. 201, 207-8, 217, n. 11.
                  Compare also Priest, Antietam, 30, 33, 59, 89; Blackford, 149-150;
                  Murfin, 235; Carman, 220, 221, 303.

                  It is likely that Jackson verbally put Stuart in some sort of command
                  since his troopers were on Jackson's left and also Stuart with his
                  horse artillery with other artillery were on Nicodemus Hill then
                  Hauser's Ridge. I will go with the above in the absence of harder
                  evidence.

                  Thank you,
                  Larry

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Larry,
                  >
                  > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                  > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                  >
                  > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  >
                  >
                  > Gerry,
                  > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
                  > things.
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear Larry,
                  > >
                  > > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                  > > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                  > > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                  > > bend.
                  > >
                  > > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                  > > and Sears mention it in their books.
                  > >
                  > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > >
                  > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > > from
                  > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                  > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                  > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Tom,
                  > >
                  > > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                  > > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                  > > writing about this "command."
                  > >
                  > > Larry
                  > >
                  > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                  > > <clemenst@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Gerry,
                  > > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                  > > > Jackson
                  > > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                  > > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                  > > unaware
                  > > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                  > > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                  > > > HQ.
                  > > > No
                  > > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                  > > there
                  > > are "thin."
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > > > Professor of History
                  > > > Hagerstown Community College
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                  > > > Teej;
                  > > >
                  > > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
                  > > > and
                  > > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                  > > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                  > > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                  > > > be
                  > > > found if needed.
                  > > >
                  > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > > >
                  > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                  > > > even
                  > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                  > > > the
                  > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > > > from
                  > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                  > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                  > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > <Snip>
                  > > > >
                  > > > > However, does anyone know where
                  > > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                  > > > >> infamously
                  > > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                  > > > > like
                  > > > > to point out
                  > > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                  > > > > Stuart often
                  > > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                  > > > > days." I suspect
                  > > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Regards,
                  > > > > Teej
                  > > > >>
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • G E Mayers
                  Well, Stuart was in command of his cavalry forces as well as the horse artillery on Nicodemus Heights. He and Jackson worked very closely together to keep the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 8 10:15 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Well, Stuart was in command of his cavalry forces as well as the
                    horse artillery on Nicodemus Heights. He and Jackson worked very
                    closely together to keep the flank area between Jackson and the
                    Potomac secure. IIRC.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:59 PM
                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                    >I think Larry is questioning Stuart being "in command" on the
                    >left, not his
                    > presence there.
                    >
                    > Harry
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > Behalf Of G E Mayers
                    > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:40 PM
                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear Larry,
                    >
                    > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                    > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                    >
                    > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                    >
                    > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >
                    > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    > from
                    > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_
                    > <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                    > inf@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    >
                    > Gerry,
                    > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two
                    > different
                    > things.
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Dear Larry,
                    >>
                    >> Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                    >> Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                    >> the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                    >> bend.
                    >>
                    >> I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                    >> and Sears mention it in their books.
                    >>
                    >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >>
                    >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                    >> even
                    >> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    >> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    >> from
                    >> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                    >> From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                    >> To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com>
                    >> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                    >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Tom,
                    >>
                    >> I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                    >> including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                    >> writing about this "command."
                    >>
                    >> Larry
                    >>
                    >> --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                    >> <clemenst@>
                    >> wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> > Gerry,
                    >> > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                    >> > Jackson
                    >> used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                    >> labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                    >> unaware
                    >> of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                    >> > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                    >> > HQ.
                    >> > No
                    >> doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                    >> there
                    >> are "thin."
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    >> > Professor of History
                    >> > Hagerstown Community College
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                    >> > Teej;
                    >> >
                    >> > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both
                    >> > Stuart
                    >> > and
                    >> > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                    >> > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                    >> > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                    >> > be
                    >> > found if needed.
                    >> >
                    >> > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    >> > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >> >
                    >> > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                    >> > even
                    >> > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                    >> > the
                    >> > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    >> > from
                    >> > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    >> > ----- Original Message -----
                    >> > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                    >> > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > yahoogroups.com>
                    >> > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                    >> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                    >> > >
                    >> > > <Snip>
                    >> > >
                    >> > > However, does anyone know where
                    >> > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                    >> > >> infamously
                    >> > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                    >> > >
                    >> > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                    >> > > like
                    >> > > to point out
                    >> > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                    >> > > Stuart often
                    >> > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                    >> > > days." I suspect
                    >> > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Regards,
                    >> > > Teej
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > ------------------------------------
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ------------------------------------
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • G E Mayers
                    Larry, What you say makes perfect sense and ties in with everything I have read. It is a fact that Jackson and Stuart very often worked closely together. It
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 8 10:18 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Larry,

                      What you say makes perfect sense and ties in with everything I
                      have read.

                      It is a fact that Jackson and Stuart very often worked closely
                      together. It would not surprise me that Stuart had "verbal"
                      orders from Jackson to do precisely as you say or that the both
                      of them had reviewed the sector where Jackson was posted and came
                      to an agreement respecting division of forces.

                      IIRC the term "corps" was being used rather loosely at the time
                      and was pretty much understood as such, even though officially
                      both Jackson and Longstreet commanded Wings of the Army of
                      Northern Va. R E Lee was indeed considering how to effectively
                      delegate control of portions of his army to senior lieutenants.
                      If anything, the experience of The Seven Days taught him it is
                      much easier to have a handful of trusted subordinated reporting
                      directly to him rather than a dozen!

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:09 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                      Gerry,

                      Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh's books with a pristine
                      duplicate copy of "Taken at the Flood" signed by him since my
                      original is marked up. I do see in von Borcke's book (160-1) that
                      Jackson put Stuart in charge of the "left wing" of his corps even
                      though there were no official Rebel "corps" then. But von Borcke
                      is
                      sometimes somewhat fast and loose with facts.

                      Robert E. L. Krick says that Jackson and Stuart must have worked
                      out
                      some arrangement re the defense of the left flank since Jackson
                      never
                      visited Nicodemus Heights ("Defending Lee's Flank: J.E.B. Stuart,
                      John Pelham, and COnfederate Artillery on Nicodemus Heights," in
                      "The
                      Antietam Campaign, ed. Gary W. Gallagher, pp. 201, 207-8, 217, n.
                      11.
                      Compare also Priest, Antietam, 30, 33, 59, 89; Blackford,
                      149-150;
                      Murfin, 235; Carman, 220, 221, 303.

                      It is likely that Jackson verbally put Stuart in some sort of
                      command
                      since his troopers were on Jackson's left and also Stuart with
                      his
                      horse artillery with other artillery were on Nicodemus Hill then
                      Hauser's Ridge. I will go with the above in the absence of harder
                      evidence.

                      Thank you,
                      Larry

                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Larry,
                      >
                      > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                      > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                      >
                      > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                      >
                      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >
                      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                      > from
                      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                      >
                      >
                      > Gerry,
                      > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two
                      > different
                      > things.
                      >
                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Dear Larry,
                      > >
                      > > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                      > > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect
                      > > being
                      > > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                      > > bend.
                      > >
                      > > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even
                      > > Murfin
                      > > and Sears mention it in their books.
                      > >
                      > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > >
                      > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                      > > even
                      > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                      > > the
                      > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                      > > from
                      > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                      > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Tom,
                      > >
                      > > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the
                      > > left
                      > > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything
                      > > in
                      > > writing about this "command."
                      > >
                      > > Larry
                      > >
                      > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                      > > <clemenst@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Gerry,
                      > > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                      > > > Jackson
                      > > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This
                      > > is
                      > > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                      > > unaware
                      > > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                      > > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                      > > > HQ.
                      > > > No
                      > > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                      > > there
                      > > are "thin."
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      > > > Professor of History
                      > > > Hagerstown Community College
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                      > > > Teej;
                      > > >
                      > > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both
                      > > > Stuart
                      > > > and
                      > > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                      > > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                      > > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                      > > > be
                      > > > found if needed.
                      > > >
                      > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > > >
                      > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                      > > > even
                      > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                      > > > the
                      > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                      > > > from
                      > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                      > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > <Snip>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > However, does anyone know where
                      > > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                      > > > >> infamously
                      > > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                      > > > > like
                      > > > > to point out
                      > > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that
                      > > > > phrase,
                      > > > > Stuart often
                      > > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                      > > > > days." I suspect
                      > > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Regards,
                      > > > > Teej
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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