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Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.

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  • Teej
    Gerry Mayers wrote: However, does anyone know where ... This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I d like to point out that while Pope is
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
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      Gerry Mayers wrote:

      <Snip>

      However, does anyone know where
      > Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope infamously
      > said, "in the saddle"?

      This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd like to point out
      that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase, Stuart often
      wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these days." I suspect
      that was a common cavalry phrase.

      Regards,
      Teej
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Teej; Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart and Jackson had their headquarters in the saddle while at Sharpsburg. I was wondering,
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
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        Teej;

        Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart and
        Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
        Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
        particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
        found if needed.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Teej" <teej@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.


        >
        > Gerry Mayers wrote:
        >
        > <Snip>
        >
        > However, does anyone know where
        >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope infamously
        >> said, "in the saddle"?
        >
        > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd like
        > to point out
        > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
        > Stuart often
        > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
        > days." I suspect
        > that was a common cavalry phrase.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Teej
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Thomas Clemens
        Gerry, There is no official source for it, legend has it that Jackson used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is labeled on many maps as
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Gerry,
          There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that Jackson used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am unaware of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
          I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ. No doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being there are "thin."


          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
          Teej;

          Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart and
          Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
          Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
          particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
          found if needed.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Teej" <teej@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.


          >
          > Gerry Mayers wrote:
          >
          > <Snip>
          >
          > However, does anyone know where
          >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope infamously
          >> said, "in the saddle"?
          >
          > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd like
          > to point out
          > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
          > Stuart often
          > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
          > days." I suspect
          > that was a common cavalry phrase.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Teej
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >



          ------------------------------------


          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • eighth_conn_inf
          Tom, I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can t find anything in writing about this
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
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            Tom,

            I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
            including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
            writing about this "command."

            Larry

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Gerry,
            > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that Jackson
            used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
            labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am unaware
            of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
            > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ. No
            doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being there
            are "thin."
            >
            >
            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > Professor of History
            > Hagerstown Community College
            >
            >
            > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
            > Teej;
            >
            > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart and
            > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
            > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
            > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
            > found if needed.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Teej" <teej@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
            > >
            > > <Snip>
            > >
            > > However, does anyone know where
            > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope infamously
            > >> said, "in the saddle"?
            > >
            > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd like
            > > to point out
            > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
            > > Stuart often
            > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
            > > days." I suspect
            > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > > Teej
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Larry, Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being the anchor of the left
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
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              Dear Larry,

              Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
              Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
              the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
              bend.

              I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
              and Sears mention it in their books.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


              Tom,

              I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
              including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
              writing about this "command."

              Larry

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
              <clemenst@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Gerry,
              > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
              > Jackson
              used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
              labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
              unaware
              of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
              > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ.
              > No
              doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
              there
              are "thin."
              >
              >
              > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              > Professor of History
              > Hagerstown Community College
              >
              >
              > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
              > Teej;
              >
              > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
              > and
              > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
              > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
              > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
              > found if needed.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Teej" <teej@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
              >
              >
              > >
              > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
              > >
              > > <Snip>
              > >
              > > However, does anyone know where
              > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
              > >> infamously
              > >> said, "in the saddle"?
              > >
              > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
              > > like
              > > to point out
              > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
              > > Stuart often
              > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
              > > days." I suspect
              > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > > Teej
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
            • G E Mayers
              Dear Larry, I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh documents Stuart s presence on Jackson s left flank very well. Tom Clemens, can you help
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
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                Dear Larry,

                I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.

                Tom Clemens, can you help here?

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                Gerry,
                Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
                things.

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Dear Larry,
                >
                > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                > bend.
                >
                > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                > and Sears mention it in their books.
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > from
                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                >
                >
                > Tom,
                >
                > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                > writing about this "command."
                >
                > Larry
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                > <clemenst@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Gerry,
                > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                > > Jackson
                > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                > unaware
                > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                > > HQ.
                > > No
                > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                > there
                > are "thin."
                > >
                > >
                > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > > Professor of History
                > > Hagerstown Community College
                > >
                > >
                > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                > > Teej;
                > >
                > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
                > > and
                > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                > > be
                > > found if needed.
                > >
                > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > >
                > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                > > even
                > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                > > the
                > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > > from
                > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                > >
                > >
                > > >
                > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                > > >
                > > > <Snip>
                > > >
                > > > However, does anyone know where
                > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                > > >> infamously
                > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                > > >
                > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                > > > like
                > > > to point out
                > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                > > > Stuart often
                > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                > > > days." I suspect
                > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                > > >
                > > > Regards,
                > > > Teej
                > > >>
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                >
              • eighth_conn_inf
                Gerry, Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different things.
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gerry,
                  Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
                  things.

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Larry,
                  >
                  > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                  > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                  > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                  > bend.
                  >
                  > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                  > and Sears mention it in their books.
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  >
                  >
                  > Tom,
                  >
                  > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                  > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                  > writing about this "command."
                  >
                  > Larry
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                  > <clemenst@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Gerry,
                  > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                  > > Jackson
                  > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                  > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                  > unaware
                  > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                  > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's HQ.
                  > > No
                  > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                  > there
                  > are "thin."
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > > Professor of History
                  > > Hagerstown Community College
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                  > > Teej;
                  > >
                  > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
                  > > and
                  > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                  > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                  > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could be
                  > > found if needed.
                  > >
                  > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > >
                  > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                  > > from
                  > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                  > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > <Snip>
                  > > >
                  > > > However, does anyone know where
                  > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                  > > >> infamously
                  > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                  > > >
                  > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                  > > > like
                  > > > to point out
                  > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                  > > > Stuart often
                  > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                  > > > days." I suspect
                  > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                  > > >
                  > > > Regards,
                  > > > Teej
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  >
                • Harry Smeltzer
                  I think Larry is questioning Stuart being in command on the left, not his presence there. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I think Larry is questioning Stuart being "in command" on the left, not his
                    presence there.

                    Harry



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of G E Mayers
                    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:40 PM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.



                    Dear Larry,

                    I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                    documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.

                    Tom Clemens, can you help here?

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_ <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                    inf@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.

                    Gerry,
                    Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
                    things.

                    --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Larry,
                    >
                    > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                    > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                    > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                    > bend.
                    >
                    > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                    > and Sears mention it in their books.
                    >
                    > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >
                    > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    > from
                    > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    >
                    >
                    > Tom,
                    >
                    > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                    > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                    > writing about this "command."
                    >
                    > Larry
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                    > <clemenst@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Gerry,
                    > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                    > > Jackson
                    > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                    > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                    > unaware
                    > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                    > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                    > > HQ.
                    > > No
                    > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                    > there
                    > are "thin."
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > > Professor of History
                    > > Hagerstown Community College
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                    > > Teej;
                    > >
                    > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
                    > > and
                    > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                    > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                    > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                    > > be
                    > > found if needed.
                    > >
                    > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    > >
                    > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                    > > even
                    > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                    > > the
                    > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    > > from
                    > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                    > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > <Snip>
                    > > >
                    > > > However, does anyone know where
                    > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                    > > >> infamously
                    > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                    > > >
                    > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                    > > > like
                    > > > to point out
                    > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                    > > > Stuart often
                    > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                    > > > days." I suspect
                    > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                    > > >
                    > > > Regards,
                    > > > Teej
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • eighth_conn_inf
                    Gerry, Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh s books with a pristine duplicate copy of Taken at the Flood signed by him since my original is marked up. I
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gerry,

                      Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh's books with a pristine
                      duplicate copy of "Taken at the Flood" signed by him since my
                      original is marked up. I do see in von Borcke's book (160-1) that
                      Jackson put Stuart in charge of the "left wing" of his corps even
                      though there were no official Rebel "corps" then. But von Borcke is
                      sometimes somewhat fast and loose with facts.

                      Robert E. L. Krick says that Jackson and Stuart must have worked out
                      some arrangement re the defense of the left flank since Jackson never
                      visited Nicodemus Heights ("Defending Lee's Flank: J.E.B. Stuart,
                      John Pelham, and COnfederate Artillery on Nicodemus Heights," in "The
                      Antietam Campaign, ed. Gary W. Gallagher, pp. 201, 207-8, 217, n. 11.
                      Compare also Priest, Antietam, 30, 33, 59, 89; Blackford, 149-150;
                      Murfin, 235; Carman, 220, 221, 303.

                      It is likely that Jackson verbally put Stuart in some sort of command
                      since his troopers were on Jackson's left and also Stuart with his
                      horse artillery with other artillery were on Nicodemus Hill then
                      Hauser's Ridge. I will go with the above in the absence of harder
                      evidence.

                      Thank you,
                      Larry

                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Larry,
                      >
                      > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                      > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                      >
                      > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                      >
                      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >
                      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                      >
                      >
                      > Gerry,
                      > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two different
                      > things.
                      >
                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Dear Larry,
                      > >
                      > > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                      > > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                      > > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                      > > bend.
                      > >
                      > > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                      > > and Sears mention it in their books.
                      > >
                      > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > >
                      > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                      > > from
                      > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                      > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Tom,
                      > >
                      > > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                      > > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                      > > writing about this "command."
                      > >
                      > > Larry
                      > >
                      > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                      > > <clemenst@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Gerry,
                      > > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                      > > > Jackson
                      > > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                      > > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                      > > unaware
                      > > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                      > > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                      > > > HQ.
                      > > > No
                      > > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                      > > there
                      > > are "thin."
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      > > > Professor of History
                      > > > Hagerstown Community College
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                      > > > Teej;
                      > > >
                      > > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both Stuart
                      > > > and
                      > > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                      > > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                      > > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                      > > > be
                      > > > found if needed.
                      > > >
                      > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > > >
                      > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                      > > > even
                      > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                      > > > the
                      > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                      > > > from
                      > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                      > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > <Snip>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > However, does anyone know where
                      > > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                      > > > >> infamously
                      > > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                      > > > > like
                      > > > > to point out
                      > > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                      > > > > Stuart often
                      > > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                      > > > > days." I suspect
                      > > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Regards,
                      > > > > Teej
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------------------
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • G E Mayers
                      Well, Stuart was in command of his cavalry forces as well as the horse artillery on Nicodemus Heights. He and Jackson worked very closely together to keep the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Well, Stuart was in command of his cavalry forces as well as the
                        horse artillery on Nicodemus Heights. He and Jackson worked very
                        closely together to keep the flank area between Jackson and the
                        Potomac secure. IIRC.

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:59 PM
                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                        >I think Larry is questioning Stuart being "in command" on the
                        >left, not his
                        > presence there.
                        >
                        > Harry
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of G E Mayers
                        > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:40 PM
                        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Larry,
                        >
                        > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                        > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                        >
                        > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                        >
                        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        >
                        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                        > from
                        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_
                        > <mailto:eighth_conn_inf%40yahoo.com>
                        > inf@...>
                        > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                        >
                        > Gerry,
                        > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two
                        > different
                        > things.
                        >
                        > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Dear Larry,
                        >>
                        >> Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                        >> Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect being
                        >> the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                        >> bend.
                        >>
                        >> I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even Murfin
                        >> and Sears mention it in their books.
                        >>
                        >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        >>
                        >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                        >> even
                        >> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        >> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                        >> from
                        >> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        >> ----- Original Message -----
                        >> From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                        >> To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com>
                        >> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                        >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Tom,
                        >>
                        >> I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the left
                        >> including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything in
                        >> writing about this "command."
                        >>
                        >> Larry
                        >>
                        >> --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                        >> <clemenst@>
                        >> wrote:
                        >> >
                        >> > Gerry,
                        >> > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                        >> > Jackson
                        >> used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This is
                        >> labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                        >> unaware
                        >> of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                        >> > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                        >> > HQ.
                        >> > No
                        >> doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                        >> there
                        >> are "thin."
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        >> > Professor of History
                        >> > Hagerstown Community College
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                        >> > Teej;
                        >> >
                        >> > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both
                        >> > Stuart
                        >> > and
                        >> > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                        >> > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                        >> > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                        >> > be
                        >> > found if needed.
                        >> >
                        >> > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        >> > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        >> >
                        >> > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                        >> > even
                        >> > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                        >> > the
                        >> > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                        >> > from
                        >> > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        >> > ----- Original Message -----
                        >> > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                        >> > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > yahoogroups.com>
                        >> > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                        >> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> > >
                        >> > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                        >> > >
                        >> > > <Snip>
                        >> > >
                        >> > > However, does anyone know where
                        >> > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                        >> > >> infamously
                        >> > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                        >> > >
                        >> > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                        >> > > like
                        >> > > to point out
                        >> > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that phrase,
                        >> > > Stuart often
                        >> > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                        >> > > days." I suspect
                        >> > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                        >> > >
                        >> > > Regards,
                        >> > > Teej
                        >> > >>
                        >> > >
                        >> > >
                        >> > >
                        >> > > ------------------------------------
                        >> > >
                        >> > >
                        >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >> > >
                        >> > >
                        >> > >
                        >> > >
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> > ------------------------------------
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                      • G E Mayers
                        Larry, What you say makes perfect sense and ties in with everything I have read. It is a fact that Jackson and Stuart very often worked closely together. It
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Larry,

                          What you say makes perfect sense and ties in with everything I
                          have read.

                          It is a fact that Jackson and Stuart very often worked closely
                          together. It would not surprise me that Stuart had "verbal"
                          orders from Jackson to do precisely as you say or that the both
                          of them had reviewed the sector where Jackson was posted and came
                          to an agreement respecting division of forces.

                          IIRC the term "corps" was being used rather loosely at the time
                          and was pretty much understood as such, even though officially
                          both Jackson and Longstreet commanded Wings of the Army of
                          Northern Va. R E Lee was indeed considering how to effectively
                          delegate control of portions of his army to senior lieutenants.
                          If anything, the experience of The Seven Days taught him it is
                          much easier to have a handful of trusted subordinated reporting
                          directly to him rather than a dozen!

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:09 PM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.


                          Gerry,

                          Fortunately I have all three of Dr. Harsh's books with a pristine
                          duplicate copy of "Taken at the Flood" signed by him since my
                          original is marked up. I do see in von Borcke's book (160-1) that
                          Jackson put Stuart in charge of the "left wing" of his corps even
                          though there were no official Rebel "corps" then. But von Borcke
                          is
                          sometimes somewhat fast and loose with facts.

                          Robert E. L. Krick says that Jackson and Stuart must have worked
                          out
                          some arrangement re the defense of the left flank since Jackson
                          never
                          visited Nicodemus Heights ("Defending Lee's Flank: J.E.B. Stuart,
                          John Pelham, and COnfederate Artillery on Nicodemus Heights," in
                          "The
                          Antietam Campaign, ed. Gary W. Gallagher, pp. 201, 207-8, 217, n.
                          11.
                          Compare also Priest, Antietam, 30, 33, 59, 89; Blackford,
                          149-150;
                          Murfin, 235; Carman, 220, 221, 303.

                          It is likely that Jackson verbally put Stuart in some sort of
                          command
                          since his troopers were on Jackson's left and also Stuart with
                          his
                          horse artillery with other artillery were on Nicodemus Hill then
                          Hauser's Ridge. I will go with the above in the absence of harder
                          evidence.

                          Thank you,
                          Larry

                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Larry,
                          >
                          > I surmise you do not have the book in question. IIRC Harsh
                          > documents Stuart's presence on Jackson's left flank very well.
                          >
                          > Tom Clemens, can you help here?
                          >
                          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >
                          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                          > from
                          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:39 PM
                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                          >
                          >
                          > Gerry,
                          > Thanks, but mentioning it and documenting it can be two
                          > different
                          > things.
                          >
                          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Dear Larry,
                          > >
                          > > Do you have Taken at the Flood? Harsh has quite a mention of
                          > > Stuart being on the left flank of Jackson, and in effect
                          > > being
                          > > the anchor of the left flank of Jackson and the Potomac River
                          > > bend.
                          > >
                          > > I am not sure what you have been reading, but IIRC even
                          > > Murfin
                          > > and Sears mention it in their books.
                          > >
                          > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          > >
                          > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                          > > even
                          > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                          > > the
                          > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                          > > from
                          > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                          > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:03 PM
                          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Headquarters questions, etc.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Tom,
                          > >
                          > > I guess legend probably also has Stuart in command on the
                          > > left
                          > > including the guns on Nicodemus Hill? I can't find anything
                          > > in
                          > > writing about this "command."
                          > >
                          > > Larry
                          > >
                          > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                          > > <clemenst@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Gerry,
                          > > > There is no "official" source for it, legend has it that
                          > > > Jackson
                          > > used the Mary Locher cabin on the edge of West Woods. This
                          > > is
                          > > labeled on many maps as the Alfred Poffenberger farm. I am
                          > > unaware
                          > > of any proof for that assertion, but I've heard it mentioned.
                          > > > I am not as convinced as many people are about Longstreet's
                          > > > HQ.
                          > > > No
                          > > doubt Hill was at the Piper farm, butt he sources for L being
                          > > there
                          > > are "thin."
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          > > > Professor of History
                          > > > Hagerstown Community College
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@> 08/08/08 10:09 AM >>>
                          > > > Teej;
                          > > >
                          > > > Ok. Everything I have read seems to indicate that both
                          > > > Stuart
                          > > > and
                          > > > Jackson had their headquarters "in the saddle" while at
                          > > > Sharpsburg. I was wondering, though, whether Jackson in
                          > > > particular had a reasonably "fixed" location where he could
                          > > > be
                          > > > found if needed.
                          > > >
                          > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          > > >
                          > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                          > > > even
                          > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
                          > > > the
                          > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                          > > > from
                          > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > From: "Teej" <teej@>
                          > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:58 AM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Headquarters questions, etc.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > <Snip>
                          > > > >
                          > > > > However, does anyone know where
                          > > > >> Jackson had his headquarters or were they, as Pope
                          > > > >> infamously
                          > > > >> said, "in the saddle"?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > This in no way answers your question, Gerry, but I'd
                          > > > > like
                          > > > > to point out
                          > > > > that while Pope is often criticized for using that
                          > > > > phrase,
                          > > > > Stuart often
                          > > > > wrote Flora that his "headquarters is in the saddle these
                          > > > > days." I suspect
                          > > > > that was a common cavalry phrase.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Regards,
                          > > > > Teej
                          > > > >>
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ------------------------------------
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ------------------------------------
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
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