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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle of Sharpsburg

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  • G E Mayers
    Dear Scott, Thanks. Use of smoothbore weapons...like the M1842 Springfield...is well documented for both sides at Antietam. However, the Harpers Weekly issue
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 2, 2008
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      Dear Scott,

      Thanks.

      Use of smoothbore weapons...like the M1842 Springfield...is well
      documented for both sides at Antietam. However, the Harpers
      Weekly issue might be talking about Kentucky troops in the
      Western theater.

      To my knowledge I have never heard of any KY rifle use at
      Sharpsburg during the battle but maybe Tom Clemens knows. As to
      the shotgun...that would be a most unusual weapon for an
      infantryman to carry... I would understand cavalry, especially
      Confederate cavalry.

      Rhorbach Barn...question then becomes which Rohrbach farm?


      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:23 AM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle of
      Sharpsburg


      Dear Gerry,

      There's a woodcut in August 17, 1861 issue of Harper's Weekly
      depicting Confederate uniforms, one of which is for the Kentucky
      Rifle
      Brigade. It's unclear if they were armed with Kentucky Rifles,
      or
      were just a brigade from Kentucky armed with rifled muskets. In
      either case, to the best of my knowledge, there was not a brigade
      at
      Antietam that was armed exclusively with outdated Kentucky
      Rifles.
      However, could this longarm have seen use at Antietam?

      I've been corresponding with a 2nd Georgia historian who's heard
      rumors of their use at Sharpsburg, however we're looking for
      definitive proof that at least one solider is documented to have
      used
      one at Antietam.

      We know for a fact that the Irish Brigade was issued Model 1842
      .69-caliber smoothbore muskets. In my own collection I have an
      English Mortimer shotgun found in the Rohrbach Barn after the
      battle
      (probably left by a wounded soldier), and a bayonet adapted for
      use on
      a shotgun documented to have been found on the battlefield.

      So, with a overall range of 700-800 yards, and the ability to
      kill a
      man at 250 yards, it's at least plausible that the Kentucky
      Rifle,
      with its' superior accuracy over the above mentioned arms, could
      have
      seen use at Antietam.

      Scott
    • Scott Hann
      Dear Gerry, Perhaps I m using the wrong nomenclature. I ve seen references to Country Rifles , and the fact that they fired a picket bullet , but, as yet,
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 3, 2008
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        Dear Gerry,

        Perhaps I'm using the wrong nomenclature. I've seen references to
        "Country Rifles", and the fact that they fired a "picket bullet", but,
        as yet, have never seen a photograph of such weapon. Could it be the
        readily available Kentucky Rifle they're talking about? I have in my
        collection a Country Rifle bullet mold recovered near Dunker Church,
        and saw a similar mold with Antietam provenance on display at Heritage
        Day in Sharpsburg.

        I quickly skimmed through Dean Thomas' "Ready ... Aim ... Fire! Small
        Arm Ammunition in the Battle of Gettysburg" and found that .69 shotgun
        slugs have been recovered from the Gettysburg Battlefield, but it's
        unclear whether they were used by a smoothbore musket or shotgun.
        Apparently it could be fired by both.

        As for the "Rohrbach Barn", your guess is as good as mine. I know
        about the substantial barn on the Henry Rohrbach Farm, but don't know
        if one existed on the Noah Rohrbach property. These are the only two
        Rohrbach's that I know of.

        Scott



        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Scott,
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        > Use of smoothbore weapons...like the M1842 Springfield...is well
        > documented for both sides at Antietam. However, the Harpers
        > Weekly issue might be talking about Kentucky troops in the
        > Western theater.
        >
        > To my knowledge I have never heard of any KY rifle use at
        > Sharpsburg during the battle but maybe Tom Clemens knows. As to
        > the shotgun...that would be a most unusual weapon for an
        > infantryman to carry... I would understand cavalry, especially
        > Confederate cavalry.
        >
        > Rhorbach Barn...question then becomes which Rohrbach farm?
        >
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:23 AM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle of
        > Sharpsburg
        >
        >
        > Dear Gerry,
        >
        > There's a woodcut in August 17, 1861 issue of Harper's Weekly
        > depicting Confederate uniforms, one of which is for the Kentucky
        > Rifle
        > Brigade. It's unclear if they were armed with Kentucky Rifles,
        > or
        > were just a brigade from Kentucky armed with rifled muskets. In
        > either case, to the best of my knowledge, there was not a brigade
        > at
        > Antietam that was armed exclusively with outdated Kentucky
        > Rifles.
        > However, could this longarm have seen use at Antietam?
        >
        > I've been corresponding with a 2nd Georgia historian who's heard
        > rumors of their use at Sharpsburg, however we're looking for
        > definitive proof that at least one solider is documented to have
        > used
        > one at Antietam.
        >
        > We know for a fact that the Irish Brigade was issued Model 1842
        > .69-caliber smoothbore muskets. In my own collection I have an
        > English Mortimer shotgun found in the Rohrbach Barn after the
        > battle
        > (probably left by a wounded soldier), and a bayonet adapted for
        > use on
        > a shotgun documented to have been found on the battlefield.
        >
        > So, with a overall range of 700-800 yards, and the ability to
        > kill a
        > man at 250 yards, it's at least plausible that the Kentucky
        > Rifle,
        > with its' superior accuracy over the above mentioned arms, could
        > have
        > seen use at Antietam.
        >
        > Scott
        >
      • G E Mayers
        Scott, I have never heard of a Country Rifle.............. Ok on the Rohrbach barns. You can ask the rangers at Antietam NPS via email about the barns etc....
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 3, 2008
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          Scott,

          I have never heard of a Country Rifle.............. Ok on the
          Rohrbach barns.

          You can ask the rangers at Antietam NPS via email about the barns
          etc.... Brian Baracz is a good one to contact there.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:01 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle of
          Sharpsburg


          Dear Gerry,

          Perhaps I'm using the wrong nomenclature. I've seen references
          to
          "Country Rifles", and the fact that they fired a "picket bullet",
          but,
          as yet, have never seen a photograph of such weapon. Could it be
          the
          readily available Kentucky Rifle they're talking about? I have
          in my
          collection a Country Rifle bullet mold recovered near Dunker
          Church,
          and saw a similar mold with Antietam provenance on display at
          Heritage
          Day in Sharpsburg.

          I quickly skimmed through Dean Thomas' "Ready ... Aim ... Fire!
          Small
          Arm Ammunition in the Battle of Gettysburg" and found that .69
          shotgun
          slugs have been recovered from the Gettysburg Battlefield, but
          it's
          unclear whether they were used by a smoothbore musket or shotgun.
          Apparently it could be fired by both.

          As for the "Rohrbach Barn", your guess is as good as mine. I
          know
          about the substantial barn on the Henry Rohrbach Farm, but don't
          know
          if one existed on the Noah Rohrbach property. These are the only
          two
          Rohrbach's that I know of.

          Scott



          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Dear Scott,
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          > Use of smoothbore weapons...like the M1842 Springfield...is
          > well
          > documented for both sides at Antietam. However, the Harpers
          > Weekly issue might be talking about Kentucky troops in the
          > Western theater.
          >
          > To my knowledge I have never heard of any KY rifle use at
          > Sharpsburg during the battle but maybe Tom Clemens knows. As to
          > the shotgun...that would be a most unusual weapon for an
          > infantryman to carry... I would understand cavalry, especially
          > Confederate cavalry.
          >
          > Rhorbach Barn...question then becomes which Rohrbach farm?
          >
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
          > from
          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:23 AM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle
          > of
          > Sharpsburg
          >
          >
          > Dear Gerry,
          >
          > There's a woodcut in August 17, 1861 issue of Harper's Weekly
          > depicting Confederate uniforms, one of which is for the
          > Kentucky
          > Rifle
          > Brigade. It's unclear if they were armed with Kentucky Rifles,
          > or
          > were just a brigade from Kentucky armed with rifled muskets.
          > In
          > either case, to the best of my knowledge, there was not a
          > brigade
          > at
          > Antietam that was armed exclusively with outdated Kentucky
          > Rifles.
          > However, could this longarm have seen use at Antietam?
          >
          > I've been corresponding with a 2nd Georgia historian who's
          > heard
          > rumors of their use at Sharpsburg, however we're looking for
          > definitive proof that at least one solider is documented to
          > have
          > used
          > one at Antietam.
          >
          > We know for a fact that the Irish Brigade was issued Model 1842
          > .69-caliber smoothbore muskets. In my own collection I have an
          > English Mortimer shotgun found in the Rohrbach Barn after the
          > battle
          > (probably left by a wounded soldier), and a bayonet adapted for
          > use on
          > a shotgun documented to have been found on the battlefield.
          >
          > So, with a overall range of 700-800 yards, and the ability to
          > kill a
          > man at 250 yards, it's at least plausible that the Kentucky
          > Rifle,
          > with its' superior accuracy over the above mentioned arms,
          > could
          > have
          > seen use at Antietam.
          >
          > Scott
          >
        • Scott Hann
          Dear Gerry, Without looking too hard I found the following tidbit about country rifles in the July 16, 1861 issue of the Richmond Daily Dispatch: The
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 4, 2008
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            Dear Gerry,

            Without looking too hard I found the following tidbit about "country
            rifles" in the July 16, 1861 issue of the Richmond Daily Dispatch:
            "The country rifle, also, may often be obtained in sufficient numbers
            to equip a company or two in a county. The use of the Minnie instead
            of the round ball in these, makes them fully as destructive as the
            famed Enfield rifle."

            I'll drop Brian an email about the Rohrbach Barns. Thanks for the
            suggestion.

            Scott




            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
            >
            > Scott,
            >
            > I have never heard of a Country Rifle.............. Ok on the
            > Rohrbach barns.
            >
            > You can ask the rangers at Antietam NPS via email about the barns
            > etc.... Brian Baracz is a good one to contact there.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:01 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle of
            > Sharpsburg
            >
            >
            > Dear Gerry,
            >
            > Perhaps I'm using the wrong nomenclature. I've seen references
            > to
            > "Country Rifles", and the fact that they fired a "picket bullet",
            > but,
            > as yet, have never seen a photograph of such weapon. Could it be
            > the
            > readily available Kentucky Rifle they're talking about? I have
            > in my
            > collection a Country Rifle bullet mold recovered near Dunker
            > Church,
            > and saw a similar mold with Antietam provenance on display at
            > Heritage
            > Day in Sharpsburg.
            >
            > I quickly skimmed through Dean Thomas' "Ready ... Aim ... Fire!
            > Small
            > Arm Ammunition in the Battle of Gettysburg" and found that .69
            > shotgun
            > slugs have been recovered from the Gettysburg Battlefield, but
            > it's
            > unclear whether they were used by a smoothbore musket or shotgun.
            > Apparently it could be fired by both.
            >
            > As for the "Rohrbach Barn", your guess is as good as mine. I
            > know
            > about the substantial barn on the Henry Rohrbach Farm, but don't
            > know
            > if one existed on the Noah Rohrbach property. These are the only
            > two
            > Rohrbach's that I know of.
            >
            > Scott
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear Scott,
            > >
            > > Thanks.
            > >
            > > Use of smoothbore weapons...like the M1842 Springfield...is
            > > well
            > > documented for both sides at Antietam. However, the Harpers
            > > Weekly issue might be talking about Kentucky troops in the
            > > Western theater.
            > >
            > > To my knowledge I have never heard of any KY rifle use at
            > > Sharpsburg during the battle but maybe Tom Clemens knows. As to
            > > the shotgun...that would be a most unusual weapon for an
            > > infantryman to carry... I would understand cavalry, especially
            > > Confederate cavalry.
            > >
            > > Rhorbach Barn...question then becomes which Rohrbach farm?
            > >
            > >
            > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            > >
            > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > > from
            > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@>
            > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:23 AM
            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle
            > > of
            > > Sharpsburg
            > >
            > >
            > > Dear Gerry,
            > >
            > > There's a woodcut in August 17, 1861 issue of Harper's Weekly
            > > depicting Confederate uniforms, one of which is for the
            > > Kentucky
            > > Rifle
            > > Brigade. It's unclear if they were armed with Kentucky Rifles,
            > > or
            > > were just a brigade from Kentucky armed with rifled muskets.
            > > In
            > > either case, to the best of my knowledge, there was not a
            > > brigade
            > > at
            > > Antietam that was armed exclusively with outdated Kentucky
            > > Rifles.
            > > However, could this longarm have seen use at Antietam?
            > >
            > > I've been corresponding with a 2nd Georgia historian who's
            > > heard
            > > rumors of their use at Sharpsburg, however we're looking for
            > > definitive proof that at least one solider is documented to
            > > have
            > > used
            > > one at Antietam.
            > >
            > > We know for a fact that the Irish Brigade was issued Model 1842
            > > .69-caliber smoothbore muskets. In my own collection I have an
            > > English Mortimer shotgun found in the Rohrbach Barn after the
            > > battle
            > > (probably left by a wounded soldier), and a bayonet adapted for
            > > use on
            > > a shotgun documented to have been found on the battlefield.
            > >
            > > So, with a overall range of 700-800 yards, and the ability to
            > > kill a
            > > man at 250 yards, it's at least plausible that the Kentucky
            > > Rifle,
            > > with its' superior accuracy over the above mentioned arms,
            > > could
            > > have
            > > seen use at Antietam.
            > >
            > > Scott
            > >
            >
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Scott, You might want to also ask Brian about the country rifles connection, if there is one. It sounds, though, as if the country rifle was used more
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 4, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Scott,

              You might want to also ask Brian about the "country rifles"
              connection, if there is one. It sounds, though, as if the
              "country rifle" was used more for Home Guards or local militia
              than for regular forces.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 3:11 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle of
              Sharpsburg


              Dear Gerry,

              Without looking too hard I found the following tidbit about
              "country
              rifles" in the July 16, 1861 issue of the Richmond Daily
              Dispatch:
              "The country rifle, also, may often be obtained in sufficient
              numbers
              to equip a company or two in a county. The use of the Minnie
              instead
              of the round ball in these, makes them fully as destructive as
              the
              famed Enfield rifle."

              I'll drop Brian an email about the Rohrbach Barns. Thanks for
              the
              suggestion.

              Scott




              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Scott,
              >
              > I have never heard of a Country Rifle.............. Ok on the
              > Rohrbach barns.
              >
              > You can ask the rangers at Antietam NPS via email about the
              > barns
              > etc.... Brian Baracz is a good one to contact there.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:01 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the battle
              > of
              > Sharpsburg
              >
              >
              > Dear Gerry,
              >
              > Perhaps I'm using the wrong nomenclature. I've seen references
              > to
              > "Country Rifles", and the fact that they fired a "picket
              > bullet",
              > but,
              > as yet, have never seen a photograph of such weapon. Could it
              > be
              > the
              > readily available Kentucky Rifle they're talking about? I have
              > in my
              > collection a Country Rifle bullet mold recovered near Dunker
              > Church,
              > and saw a similar mold with Antietam provenance on display at
              > Heritage
              > Day in Sharpsburg.
              >
              > I quickly skimmed through Dean Thomas' "Ready ... Aim ... Fire!
              > Small
              > Arm Ammunition in the Battle of Gettysburg" and found that .69
              > shotgun
              > slugs have been recovered from the Gettysburg Battlefield, but
              > it's
              > unclear whether they were used by a smoothbore musket or
              > shotgun.
              > Apparently it could be fired by both.
              >
              > As for the "Rohrbach Barn", your guess is as good as mine. I
              > know
              > about the substantial barn on the Henry Rohrbach Farm, but
              > don't
              > know
              > if one existed on the Noah Rohrbach property. These are the
              > only
              > two
              > Rohrbach's that I know of.
              >
              > Scott
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Scott,
              > >
              > > Thanks.
              > >
              > > Use of smoothbore weapons...like the M1842 Springfield...is
              > > well
              > > documented for both sides at Antietam. However, the Harpers
              > > Weekly issue might be talking about Kentucky troops in the
              > > Western theater.
              > >
              > > To my knowledge I have never heard of any KY rifle use at
              > > Sharpsburg during the battle but maybe Tom Clemens knows. As
              > > to
              > > the shotgun...that would be a most unusual weapon for an
              > > infantryman to carry... I would understand cavalry,
              > > especially
              > > Confederate cavalry.
              > >
              > > Rhorbach Barn...question then becomes which Rohrbach farm?
              > >
              > >
              > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              > >
              > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
              > > even
              > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
              > > the
              > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > > from
              > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Scott Hann" <wutheringheights@>
              > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:23 AM
              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Kentucky Rfiles used in the
              > > battle
              > > of
              > > Sharpsburg
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear Gerry,
              > >
              > > There's a woodcut in August 17, 1861 issue of Harper's Weekly
              > > depicting Confederate uniforms, one of which is for the
              > > Kentucky
              > > Rifle
              > > Brigade. It's unclear if they were armed with Kentucky
              > > Rifles,
              > > or
              > > were just a brigade from Kentucky armed with rifled muskets.
              > > In
              > > either case, to the best of my knowledge, there was not a
              > > brigade
              > > at
              > > Antietam that was armed exclusively with outdated Kentucky
              > > Rifles.
              > > However, could this longarm have seen use at Antietam?
              > >
              > > I've been corresponding with a 2nd Georgia historian who's
              > > heard
              > > rumors of their use at Sharpsburg, however we're looking for
              > > definitive proof that at least one solider is documented to
              > > have
              > > used
              > > one at Antietam.
              > >
              > > We know for a fact that the Irish Brigade was issued Model
              > > 1842
              > > .69-caliber smoothbore muskets. In my own collection I have
              > > an
              > > English Mortimer shotgun found in the Rohrbach Barn after the
              > > battle
              > > (probably left by a wounded soldier), and a bayonet adapted
              > > for
              > > use on
              > > a shotgun documented to have been found on the battlefield.
              > >
              > > So, with a overall range of 700-800 yards, and the ability to
              > > kill a
              > > man at 250 yards, it's at least plausible that the Kentucky
              > > Rifle,
              > > with its' superior accuracy over the above mentioned arms,
              > > could
              > > have
              > > seen use at Antietam.
              > >
              > > Scott
              > >
              >
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