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Re: "Unfurl those colors!"

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    Gerry, Thank you for the correction. Indeed, Mac failed to well use Palmer s and Wilson s services, not Lee, although I m sure Lee would have liked to have
    Message 1 of 53 , May 15 6:08 AM
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      Gerry,

      Thank you for the correction. Indeed, Mac failed to well use Palmer's
      and Wilson's services, not Lee, although I'm sure Lee would have
      liked to have someone like Palmer giving him good information.

      Carhart does say that Lee read Jomini and was a supporter of the
      Napoleonic Club at WP although I didn't see that he said Lee attended
      meetings.

      Larry F.

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Dear Larry,
      >
      > Yes, Lee graduated from West Point before Mahan started teaching
      > there _but_ he was Superintendent there during part of the time
      > when Mahan was teaching there. And, IIRC, Lee was very
      > instrumental, along with Mahan, in the Napoleon Club there
      > getting organized etc.
      >
      > I wonder if Mac really studied the various works in French re
      > Napoleon, Jomini etc and if he learned the lessons therein?
      >
      > I think you meant to say Mac as opposed to Lee with Wilson's
      > services.....
      >
      > Otherwise, great post!
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:46 PM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: "Unfurl those colors!"
      >
      >
      > Gerry,
      >
      > IIRC, Lee graduated before Mahan began teaching at WP.
      >
      > IMO, a large part of McClellan's lack of knowledge was due to his
      > poor information gathering efforts. He used his cavalry poorly on
      > the
      > 16th and 17th both for scouting and then during the battle on the
      > 17th. The question should be why did Little Mac know so little
      > about
      > Lee?
      >
      > Lee had the services of William B. Wilson courtesy of Governor
      > Curtin. Curtin, at McClellan's urging, had set up an intelligence
      > group led by cavalry Captain William J. Palmer. Palmer, a very
      > competent officer, with help from Wilson, was able to use his few
      > troops as scouts to keep track of Confederate movements as well
      > as
      > interrogate refugees and deserters. Wilson's abilities to tap
      > into
      > telegraph wires enabled very accurate, prompt reports to be sent
      > to
      > Curtin and then to Halleck and McClellan albeit sometimes mangled
      > by
      > Curtin's inept summarizations. Almost all of the information
      > supplied
      > by Wilson was correct and timely but once Palmer was able to
      > personally report to Mac, apparently Mac had little use for his
      > information.
      >
      > McClellan also failed to use well some of the members of the
      > breakout
      > cavalry from Harpers Ferry. Thomas Noakes knew the area well and
      > helped guide the escape column; he was aided by Michael Burkett
      > and
      > scouts from the First Maryland Potomac Home Brigade and the First
      > Maryland Cavalry, many of whom were from the area. These troopers
      > and
      > others from the escape column could have supplied good
      > information to
      > McClellan or Pinkerton had anyone thought to question them as
      > many of
      > them had been scouting the HF columns and their subsequent
      > positions
      > for days.
      >
      > In short, I do not excuse Mac from not knowing more about Lee
      > since
      > he made little effort to do so. And his failure to use Pleasonton
      > and
      > Porter in the afternoon to attack up the Boonsboro Pike is likely
      > part and parcel of his idea that Lee greatly outnumbered him and
      > therefore had large reserves available to thwart an attack on
      > Cemetery Hill and Sharpsburg.
      >
      > Larry F.
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Ok. Thanks.... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an introduction to
      Message 53 of 53 , May 30 10:27 AM
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        Ok. Thanks....

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:17 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Beaver Creek


        Gerry,

        From the map I have, it looks like Beaver Creek starts on South
        Mountain near RT 64 about 10 miles NE of Boonsboro and then heads
        SW
        roughly following RT 66. Then NW of Boonsboro just south of the
        Old
        National Pike it joins with Little Beaver Creek and heads SW to
        join
        Antietam Creek at RT 68. Beaver Creek is not west of Boonsboro
        but
        rather to the north.

        Larry F.


        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Dear Tom,
        >
        > Thanks! This is new information for me?!?!? Perhaps I missed an
        > earlier post as I was unaware of Beaver Creek being north of
        > Boonsboro.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
        > from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "RoteBaron" <RoteBaron@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 7:53 PM
        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Beaver Creek
        >
        >
        > > Gerry,
        > > Stephen likely is referring to Beaver Creek that runs north
        > > of
        > > Boonsboro and empties into Antietam Creek. Rebels considered
        > > it
        > > as a potential defensive position once Mac began moving upon
        > > Turner's Gap. Ol' Pete would have crossed it en route from
        > > Boonsboro to Hagerstown, then re-crossed it in hurrying to
        > > the
        > > defense of South Mtn.
        > >
        > > Tom Shay
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: G E Mayers
        > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 7:15 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Beaver Creek
        > >
        > >
        > > Stephen,
        > >
        > > Do you mean Beaver Dam Creek? Seven Days Battles? A time
        > > frame
        > > would be helpful?
        > >
        > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        > >
        > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
        > > even
        > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
        > > the
        > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
        > > from
        > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 9:35 PM
        > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Beaver Creek
        > >
        > > > Where did Longstreet cross Beaver Creek? Is there a
        > > historical
        > > > marker
        > > > or landmark? Thanks.
        > > >
        > > > Stephen
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
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