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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: "Unfurl those colors!"

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  • G E Mayers
    Dave, Interesting you mention the West Point Napoleon Club. Apparently R E Lee had something to do with it and also was instrumental in the Napoleon Room at
    Message 1 of 53 , May 11, 2008
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      Dave,

      Interesting you mention the West Point Napoleon Club. Apparently
      R E Lee had something to do with it and also was instrumental in
      the "Napoleon Room" at West Point....

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <DPowell334@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 8:05 AM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: "Unfurl those colors!"


      >
      >
      > In a message dated 5/9/2008 2:42:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
      > hjs21@... writes:
      >
      > I guess a lot depends on what one's definition of "win" is.
      >
      > If "win" means the complete destruction of the enemy in the
      > field in one
      > stroke - adopting the attitude of the Italian entry in the
      > Gumball Rally:
      > "Whatsa behind me (Washington), she's a no imbordant" - then
      > the reserves should
      > have been committed to the offensive, or Burnside not ordered
      > forward and set
      > up a defensive line (discounting the idea that committal of
      > the reserves could
      > be further delayed until Burnside's operations were more fully
      > developed).
      > You've set up a false dichotomy, here. Reserves should only be
      > committed
      > when a war-ending stroke is at hand? It's not an either/or. Nor
      > is he "risking"
      > losing Washington. there are what, 50,000 troops there,
      > including two veteran
      > corps who have been refitting for two weeks? the rhetoric here
      > doesn't match
      > reality.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > If "win" means anything short of the enemy's destruction but
      > more than
      > adopting a strictly defensive posture, maybe things should
      > have gone just as they
      > did.
      >
      > Yes, by no means risk anything. Fortunately, War is never about
      > risk...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Sorry, when I wrote earlier about Mahan and reserves, I should
      > have been
      > clear that the situation perhaps did not justify committing
      > them to the
      > offensive per his idea of when that was appropriate.
      >
      > I'm interested to hear what you think happened up to that
      > point (West Woods
      > and the fall of the Bloody Lane) to indicate that complete
      > overthrow of the
      > enemy was a likely enough outcome to support committing the
      > reserve to the
      > offensive.
      >
      >
      >
      > Again, we only commit the reserve to guarantee the "complete
      > overthrow" of
      > the enemy? I don't buy it. More importantly neither do
      > Napoleon, Clauswitz, or
      > Jomini. I think that the routing of the Rebel center out of
      > Bloody Lane is
      > THE classic moment to commit reserves, by any military
      > definition I have ever
      > studied. His center is overthrown, and he only has a scratched
      > together line
      > of guns to cover the hole. Give him time, and he WILL recover.
      > Deny him that
      > time, and opportunities unlooked for may come your way.
      >
      > Reserves are used to convert incomplete victories into
      > something more. I
      > think that the emphasis on that word is critical. Mahan and
      > Halleck pay it lip
      > service, but they don't really mean it, and Mac follows that
      > lead - which is
      > why he never became a great general.
      >
      > The thing that always strikes me about these guys is that for
      > all their
      > great study of Napoleon and Jomini, they never grasped the
      > essence of what they
      > were studying. It's as if they decided to emulate the Wormsers,
      > Alvinci's, and
      > Mack's of the era rather than their hero.
      >
      > I don't recall for sure, but I think Mac was at the Pry House
      > when the
      > sunken road fell, and he could observe it well enough. That
      > moment always makes me
      > think of Napoleon at Borodino, withholding the guard after the
      > fall of the
      > Great Redoubt, and being castigated by history for his fatal
      > hesitation. A
      > wonder it never occurred to the head of the West Point Napoleon
      > Club.
      >
      > Dave Powell
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new
      > twists on family
      > favorites at AOL Food.
      > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Ok. Thanks.... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an introduction to
      Message 53 of 53 , May 30, 2008
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        Ok. Thanks....

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 1:17 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Beaver Creek


        Gerry,

        From the map I have, it looks like Beaver Creek starts on South
        Mountain near RT 64 about 10 miles NE of Boonsboro and then heads
        SW
        roughly following RT 66. Then NW of Boonsboro just south of the
        Old
        National Pike it joins with Little Beaver Creek and heads SW to
        join
        Antietam Creek at RT 68. Beaver Creek is not west of Boonsboro
        but
        rather to the north.

        Larry F.


        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Dear Tom,
        >
        > Thanks! This is new information for me?!?!? Perhaps I missed an
        > earlier post as I was unaware of Beaver Creek being north of
        > Boonsboro.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
        > from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "RoteBaron" <RoteBaron@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 7:53 PM
        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Beaver Creek
        >
        >
        > > Gerry,
        > > Stephen likely is referring to Beaver Creek that runs north
        > > of
        > > Boonsboro and empties into Antietam Creek. Rebels considered
        > > it
        > > as a potential defensive position once Mac began moving upon
        > > Turner's Gap. Ol' Pete would have crossed it en route from
        > > Boonsboro to Hagerstown, then re-crossed it in hurrying to
        > > the
        > > defense of South Mtn.
        > >
        > > Tom Shay
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: G E Mayers
        > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 7:15 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Beaver Creek
        > >
        > >
        > > Stephen,
        > >
        > > Do you mean Beaver Dam Creek? Seven Days Battles? A time
        > > frame
        > > would be helpful?
        > >
        > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        > >
        > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
        > > even
        > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in
        > > the
        > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
        > > from
        > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 9:35 PM
        > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Beaver Creek
        > >
        > > > Where did Longstreet cross Beaver Creek? Is there a
        > > historical
        > > > marker
        > > > or landmark? Thanks.
        > > >
        > > > Stephen
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
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