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Re: Little Known Places at Antietam

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  • Anthony W. Turner
    ... put together a list of 140 Places Every Guide Should Know ... I was wondering if we could have some offerings from the group toward a similar list for
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 17, 2002
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      On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, rotbaron@... wrote:

      >> I plan to co-host a tour of little known places around the Gettysburg battlefield. The list originated from two Guides who
      put together a list of "140 Places Every Guide Should Know" ... I was
      wondering if we could have some offerings from the group toward a
      similar list for Antietam. <<

      Sears and other Antietam authors tell of "an exposed knoll near the
      Hagerstown turnpike where Gens. Lee, Longstreet and D.H. Hill met to
      view the advance of Gen. Wm. H. French's division toward the Sunken
      Road. Hill rode atop the knoll, I believe, in view of Federal
      artellerists who proceeded to lob a shell which blew off the forelegs of
      his horse. The horse angled foreward but did not fall. "Hill was in a
      most ludicrous position," Longstreet wrote later.

      Where exactly is the knoll, assuming it's still there? Can visitors be
      led to stand atop it and see where the federal artillery came from?

      Tony Turner
    • NJ Rebel
      Tony, My understanding, and this from listening to Keith Snyder, one of the rangers at Antietam, is that the knoll was actually closer to the town of
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 17, 2002
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        Tony,

        My understanding, and this from listening to Keith Snyder, one of
        the rangers at Antietam, is that the "knoll" was actually closer
        to the town of Sharpsburg where the incident of D. H. Hill being
        asked by Longstreet to "give us some interval".

        Maybe our resident Antietam expert, Tom Clemens, could help more
        authoritatively.

        Your humble servant,
        Gerry Mayers
        Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
        Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

        A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

        http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html

        "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
        on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
        Edward Lee


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Anthony W. Turner" <awturner@...>
        To: "TalkAntietam" <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 3:17 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Little Known Places at Antietam


        > On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, rotbaron@... wrote:
        >
        > >> I plan to co-host a tour of little known places around the
        Gettysburg battlefield. The list originated from two Guides who
        > put together a list of "140 Places Every Guide Should Know" ...
        I was
        > wondering if we could have some offerings from the group toward
        a
        > similar list for Antietam. <<
        >
        > Sears and other Antietam authors tell of "an exposed knoll near
        the
        > Hagerstown turnpike where Gens. Lee, Longstreet and D.H. Hill
        met to
        > view the advance of Gen. Wm. H. French's division toward the
        Sunken
        > Road. Hill rode atop the knoll, I believe, in view of Federal
        > artellerists who proceeded to lob a shell which blew off the
        forelegs of
        > his horse. The horse angled foreward but did not fall. "Hill
        was in a
        > most ludicrous position," Longstreet wrote later.
        >
        > Where exactly is the knoll, assuming it's still there? Can
        visitors be
        > led to stand atop it and see where the federal artillery came
        from?
        >
        > Tony Turner
        >
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      • NJ Rebel
        Tom; Sounds like an excellent idea for Antietam! I for one would like to know fairly definitively where Barlow s Knoll is located near the Sunken Road at
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 17, 2002
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          Tom;

          Sounds like an excellent idea for Antietam! I for one would like
          to know fairly definitively where Barlow's Knoll is located near
          the Sunken Road at Antietam. I am sure others would also like to
          nominate special little areas.

          Your humble servant,
          Gerry Mayers
          Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
          Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

          A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

          http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html

          "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
          on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
          Edward Lee


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <rotbaron@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 9:59 AM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Little Known Places at Antietam


          > For the upcoming GDG Muster, I plan to co-host a tour of little
          known places
          > around the Gettysburg battlefield. The list originated from two
          Guides who
          > put together a list of "140 Places Every Guide Should Know". It
          includes
          > battle-era scrawlings on rocks, spots where certain people were
          shot, remains
          > of old homes, etc.
          >
          > I was wondering if we could have some offerings from the group
          toward a
          > similar list for Antietam. For example, I know Paula Gidjunis &
          company did a
          > wonderable job identifying and explaining Croasdale's Knoll.
          Any suggestions
          > toward the list would certainly make for interesting
          discussion!
          >
          > Tom Shay
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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        • Pa128th@aol.com
          In a message dated 1/17/02 10:03:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Sounds like a great idea Tom!! When the list is put together, I can certainly add
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 17, 2002
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            In a message dated 1/17/02 10:03:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, rotbaron@... writes:


            I was wondering if we could have some offerings from the group toward a
            similar list for Antietam. For example, I know Paula Gidjunis & company did a
            wonderable job identifying and explaining Croasdale's Knoll. Any suggestions
            toward the list would certainly make for interesting discussion!


            Sounds like a great idea Tom!!  When the list is put together, I can certainly add Croasdale's Knoll.

            Paula
          • Tom Clemens
            Tony, Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from the National Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back. Second alternative is
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 17, 2002
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              Tony,
              Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from the National Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back.
              Second alternative is the ridge just toteh north, but I think the cemetery is correct. Surprisingly good view from there.


              "Anthony W. Turner" wrote:

              > On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, rotbaron@... wrote:
              >
              > >> I plan to co-host a tour of little known places around the Gettysburg battlefield. The list originated from two Guides who
              > put together a list of "140 Places Every Guide Should Know" ... I was
              > wondering if we could have some offerings from the group toward a
              > similar list for Antietam. <<
              >
              > Sears and other Antietam authors tell of "an exposed knoll near the
              > Hagerstown turnpike where Gens. Lee, Longstreet and D.H. Hill met to
              > view the advance of Gen. Wm. H. French's division toward the Sunken
              > Road. Hill rode atop the knoll, I believe, in view of Federal
              > artellerists who proceeded to lob a shell which blew off the forelegs of
              > his horse. The horse angled foreward but did not fall. "Hill was in a
              > most ludicrous position," Longstreet wrote later.
              >
              > Where exactly is the knoll, assuming it's still there? Can visitors be
              > led to stand atop it and see where the federal artillery came from?
              >
              > Tony Turner
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • rotbaron@aol.com
              In a message dated 01/18/2002 0:49:53 AM EST, clemens@crosslink.net writes:
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                In a message dated 01/18/2002 0:49:53 AM EST, clemens@... writes:
                << Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from the National
                Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back. Second alternative
                is the ridge just to the north, but I think the cemetery is correct.
                Surprisingly good view from there. >>

                Scouting the battlefield with Joe Harsh......ah, to dream!

                During anniversary tours a few months ago, I attended Keith Snyder's tour of
                the middle of the Rebel line. We met at parking lot on Boonsboro Pike across
                from cemetery and headed east/northeast. As we reached the crest of
                ridgeline, I asked Keith where he thinks the incident (Hill's horse being hit
                by shell) occurred. He felt it was likely in this area. So we certainly have
                at least two options to choose from!

                Tom Shay
              • kamills
                Since we are talking about landscapes, where exactly is Nicodemous Heights? I have been to Antietam many times, but still have a hard time with this location.
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                  Since we are talking about landscapes, where exactly is Nicodemous
                  Heights? I have been to Antietam many times, but still have a
                  hard time with this location.

                  Thank you
                  Andy

                  ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

                  Tony,
                  Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from the
                  National Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back.
                  Second alternative is the ridge just toteh north, but I think the
                  cemetery is correct. Surprisingly good view from there.
                • Tom Clemens
                  Tom Shay, We re pretty close. Why we chose the closer location was: 1. Lee was on the hill all day and I don t think he traveled very far up the ridge. 2. The
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                    Tom Shay,
                    We're pretty close. Why we chose the closer location was:
                    1. Lee was on the hill all day and I don't think he traveled very far up the
                    ridge.
                    2. The full account mentions the shell continued down the hill and struck in the
                    ranks of NC regiment and killed a few men. The regiment was described as resting
                    on the outskirts of the town. So if you go too far up the ridge the trajectoy
                    from Weed's guns on the Ecker farm takes you awy from town not towards it.
                    3. Another source said about 75 yards north of the turnpike.

                    This is all from memory, so be generous with you criticism.
                    Tom
                    rotbaron@... wrote:

                    > In a message dated 01/18/2002 0:49:53 AM EST, clemens@... writes:
                    > << Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from the National
                    > Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back. Second alternative
                    > is the ridge just to the north, but I think the cemetery is correct.
                    > Surprisingly good view from there. >>
                    >
                    > Scouting the battlefield with Joe Harsh......ah, to dream!
                    >
                    > During anniversary tours a few months ago, I attended Keith Snyder's tour of
                    > the middle of the Rebel line. We met at parking lot on Boonsboro Pike across
                    > from cemetery and headed east/northeast. As we reached the crest of
                    > ridgeline, I asked Keith where he thinks the incident (Hill's horse being hit
                    > by shell) occurred. He felt it was likely in this area. So we certainly have
                    > at least two options to choose from!
                    >
                    > Tom Shay
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Tom Clemens
                    It is west of the Rt. 65 bypass. Just north of the West Woods you ll see a farm with a large white house and a barn behind it. The cleared ridge behind the
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                      It is west of the Rt. 65 bypass. Just north of the West Woods you'll see a
                      farm with a large white house and a barn behind it. The cleared ridge behind
                      the barn is Nicodemus Hts.


                      kamills wrote:

                      > Since we are talking about landscapes, where exactly is Nicodemous
                      > Heights? I have been to Antietam many times, but still have a
                      > hard time with this location.
                      >
                      > Thank you
                      > Andy
                      >
                      > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                      >
                      > Tony,
                      > Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from the
                      > National Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back.
                      > Second alternative is the ridge just toteh north, but I think the
                      > cemetery is correct. Surprisingly good view from there.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • kamills
                      Tom Thank you. I appreciate the help. Is this part of the battlefield, that you can tour, or is it privately owned? How important was this position as an
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                        Tom

                        Thank you. I appreciate the help. Is this part of the
                        battlefield, that you can tour, or is it privately owned? How
                        important was this position as an artillery placement? I have
                        heard both that is significantly helped the 1st phase to it was
                        about worthless.

                        Thank you
                        Andy

                        ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

                        It is west of the Rt. 65 bypass. Just north of the West Woods
                        you'll see a farm with a large white house and a barn behind it.
                        The cleared ridge behind the barn is Nicodemus Hts.
                      • Tom Clemens
                        Andy, It is within the boundary, under scenic easement and cannot be developed, but privately owned. It is off-limits w/o permission of the owners, and they
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                          Andy,
                          It is within the boundary, under scenic easement and cannot be developed, but
                          privately owned. It is off-limits w/o permission of the owners, and they are
                          quirky. The last time I went up there I called the son, who was very
                          accommodating, but when I got there the old man gave all kinds of grief.
                          Luckily I was touring a group of Marines, who didn't intimidate very easily.
                          It is a nice view from there, but Pelham was gone from there by 6:30 am. Joe
                          Harsh downplays its importance, and makes a good case, but I think it still
                          held strong strategic value. The high ground behind J. Poffenberger's house
                          is higher, and commands the ridge, but if the Federals had acquired it then
                          it might have been a very different story.
                          Tom

                          kamills wrote:

                          > Tom
                          >
                          > Thank you. I appreciate the help. Is this part of the
                          > battlefield, that you can tour, or is it privately owned? How
                          > important was this position as an artillery placement? I have
                          > heard both that is significantly helped the 1st phase to it was
                          > about worthless.
                          >
                          > Thank you
                          > Andy
                          >
                          > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                          >
                          > It is west of the Rt. 65 bypass. Just north of the West Woods
                          > you'll see a farm with a large white house and a barn behind it.
                          > The cleared ridge behind the barn is Nicodemus Hts.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        • NJ Rebel
                          Tom; Would this have been before Anderson s Brigade moved from somewhat near the present cemetery up through the Piper Swale to the Sunken Road? That would be
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                            Tom;

                            Would this have been before Anderson's Brigade moved from
                            somewhat near the present cemetery up through the Piper Swale to
                            the Sunken Road?

                            That would be the only way I could see some NC boys being killed
                            by the same shell...unless it was NC boys in units other than
                            those belonging to Anderson.

                            Your humble servant,
                            Gerry Mayers
                            Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
                            Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

                            A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

                            http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html

                            "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
                            on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
                            Edward Lee


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Tom Clemens" <clemens@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:50 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Little Known Places at Antietam


                            > Tom Shay,
                            > We're pretty close. Why we chose the closer location was:
                            > 1. Lee was on the hill all day and I don't think he traveled
                            very far up the
                            > ridge.
                            > 2. The full account mentions the shell continued down the hill
                            and struck in the
                            > ranks of NC regiment and killed a few men. The regiment was
                            described as resting
                            > on the outskirts of the town. So if you go too far up the ridge
                            the trajectoy
                            > from Weed's guns on the Ecker farm takes you awy from town not
                            towards it.
                            > 3. Another source said about 75 yards north of the turnpike.
                            >
                            > This is all from memory, so be generous with you criticism.
                            > Tom
                            > rotbaron@... wrote:
                            >
                            > > In a message dated 01/18/2002 0:49:53 AM EST,
                            clemens@... writes:
                            > > << Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from
                            the National
                            > > Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back.
                            Second alternative
                            > > is the ridge just to the north, but I think the cemetery is
                            correct.
                            > > Surprisingly good view from there. >>
                            > >
                            > > Scouting the battlefield with Joe Harsh......ah, to dream!
                            > >
                            > > During anniversary tours a few months ago, I attended Keith
                            Snyder's tour of
                            > > the middle of the Rebel line. We met at parking lot on
                            Boonsboro Pike across
                            > > from cemetery and headed east/northeast. As we reached the
                            crest of
                            > > ridgeline, I asked Keith where he thinks the incident (Hill's
                            horse being hit
                            > > by shell) occurred. He felt it was likely in this area. So we
                            certainly have
                            > > at least two options to choose from!
                            > >
                            > > Tom Shay
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > ADVERTISEMENT
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            Service.
                            >
                            >
                          • TR Livesey
                            See http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/tour/n_woods/niclos.html for a map that shows the region around Nicodemous heights; actually, it shows what you
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                              See http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/tour/n_woods/niclos.html for a map
                              that shows the region around Nicodemous heights; actually, it shows what
                              you should be able to see from there.

                              Regards,
                              TR Livesey
                              tlivesey@...

                              kamills wrote:

                              > Since we are talking about landscapes, where exactly is Nicodemous
                              > Heights? I have been to Antietam many times, but still have a
                              > hard time with this location.
                              >
                              > Thank you
                              > Andy
                              >
                              > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                              >
                              > Tony,
                              > Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from the
                              > National Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back.
                              > Second alternative is the ridge just toteh north, but I think the
                              > cemetery is correct. Surprisingly good view from there.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Tom Clemens
                              Gerry, I don t remember off-hand, but I think it is Joe s book, maybe STS, not TAF.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 18, 2002
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                                Gerry,
                                I don't remember off-hand, but I think it is Joe's book, maybe STS, not TAF.

                                NJ Rebel wrote:

                                > Tom;
                                >
                                > Would this have been before Anderson's Brigade moved from
                                > somewhat near the present cemetery up through the Piper Swale to
                                > the Sunken Road?
                                >
                                > That would be the only way I could see some NC boys being killed
                                > by the same shell...unless it was NC boys in units other than
                                > those belonging to Anderson.
                                >
                                > Your humble servant,
                                > Gerry Mayers
                                > Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
                                > Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry
                                >
                                > A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!
                                >
                                > http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html
                                >
                                > "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
                                > on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
                                > Edward Lee
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Tom Clemens" <clemens@...>
                                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:50 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Little Known Places at Antietam
                                >
                                > > Tom Shay,
                                > > We're pretty close. Why we chose the closer location was:
                                > > 1. Lee was on the hill all day and I don't think he traveled
                                > very far up the
                                > > ridge.
                                > > 2. The full account mentions the shell continued down the hill
                                > and struck in the
                                > > ranks of NC regiment and killed a few men. The regiment was
                                > described as resting
                                > > on the outskirts of the town. So if you go too far up the ridge
                                > the trajectoy
                                > > from Weed's guns on the Ecker farm takes you awy from town not
                                > towards it.
                                > > 3. Another source said about 75 yards north of the turnpike.
                                > >
                                > > This is all from memory, so be generous with you criticism.
                                > > Tom
                                > > rotbaron@... wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > In a message dated 01/18/2002 0:49:53 AM EST,
                                > clemens@... writes:
                                > > > << Basically it is the knoll in Mt. View Cemetery across from
                                > the National
                                > > > Cemetery. Joe Harsh and I scouted this a few years back.
                                > Second alternative
                                > > > is the ridge just to the north, but I think the cemetery is
                                > correct.
                                > > > Surprisingly good view from there. >>
                                > > >
                                > > > Scouting the battlefield with Joe Harsh......ah, to dream!
                                > > >
                                > > > During anniversary tours a few months ago, I attended Keith
                                > Snyder's tour of
                                > > > the middle of the Rebel line. We met at parking lot on
                                > Boonsboro Pike across
                                > > > from cemetery and headed east/northeast. As we reached the
                                > crest of
                                > > > ridgeline, I asked Keith where he thinks the incident (Hill's
                                > horse being hit
                                > > > by shell) occurred. He felt it was likely in this area. So we
                                > certainly have
                                > > > at least two options to choose from!
                                > > >
                                > > > Tom Shay
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                > Service.
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              • Bill or Glenna Jo Christen
                                suggestions... The camps of the Ninth Corps troops on the night before the battle. In fact, I would like to see a good map of all troop positions on the 16th
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 19, 2002
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                                  suggestions...

                                  The camps of the Ninth Corps troops on the night before the battle. In fact, I would like to see a good map of all troop
                                  positions on the 16th and on the night before the battle.

                                  Where was Jackson's HQ at the start of the battle?

                                  Where in the West Woods was Oliver W. Holmes, Jr. standing when he was wounded? and where was he eventually found?

                                  Bill Christen
                                • TR Livesey
                                  Here are a few suggestions I would add... The southeast corner of Otto s 40 acre cornfield. Nifty place if you know where to cut through the brambles. You can
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 19, 2002
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                                    Here are a few suggestions I would add...

                                    The southeast corner of Otto's 40 acre cornfield. Nifty place if you know where to cut
                                    through the brambles. You can see where the 4th RI made its 'stand'.

                                    The extreme right flank of the Federal line, near the Nicodemus house. We've all
                                    been there, but if you are not whizzing by at 50 m.p.h on the bypass, there is
                                    some very interesting terrain, particularly where a gully opens up to
                                    the east, used by Gibbon's (and others troops) to move east/west.

                                    The Reel farm. There is the well known photograph of the burned out Reel
                                    farm, but few actually visit the spot.

                                    The bluffs on the south side of the Boonsboro turnpike, looking down on
                                    the Newcomer farm, where Pleasonton's calvary fanned out. The area is
                                    readily accessible, but rarely visited.

                                    The Sharpsburg ridge. Such a big feature, it is hard to recognize up close,
                                    but if you trace it from the Middlekauf farm southward to the visitor's center,
                                    and then westward where it runs off the battlefield, you can see how the battle
                                    pivoted along the crest line.

                                    The west slope of the Porterstown ridge, between the lower and middle bridges,
                                    alone the line of Federal Artillery. Great view looking westward over the
                                    battlefield.

                                    The peak of the hill where the Antietam bends, held by the 50th GA (not the
                                    Georgian overlook). Very wooded today, was wooded then too.

                                    All locations described above are in the park, and no trespassing is required.

                                    Regards,
                                    TR Livesey
                                    tlivesey@...
                                  • NJ Rebel
                                    Bill; Those are good questions. However, the camps of all the troops of the Ninth Corps might have been on the ridges back beyond the Lower Bridge on the farm
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 19, 2002
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                                      Bill;

                                      Those are good questions. However, the camps of all the troops of
                                      the Ninth Corps might have been on the ridges back beyond the
                                      Lower Bridge on the farm now presently used by groups as a group
                                      campsite and certainly spread out in that general area. This is
                                      my opinion but have nothing solid on this.

                                      As to Jackson's HQ the morning of the battle, everything I have
                                      read seems to indicate a very flexible "HQ" centered around the
                                      West Woods area.

                                      As to Holmes, I wonder if the monument to the Philadelphia
                                      Brigade accurately positions the middle of the brigade's lines at
                                      the time of their halt in the West Woods. To accurately pinpoint
                                      Holmes's location in the battle line might require a knowledge of
                                      where both his regiment and his company were situated. Wonder if
                                      Holmes himself ever left any writings about where he was at the
                                      time he was shot in the neck?

                                      Your humble servant,
                                      Gerry Mayers
                                      Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
                                      Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

                                      A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

                                      http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html

                                      "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
                                      on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
                                      Edward Lee


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Bill or Glenna Jo Christen" <gwjchris@...>
                                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 11:39 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Little Known Places at Antietam


                                      >
                                      > suggestions...
                                      >
                                      > The camps of the Ninth Corps troops on the night before the
                                      battle. In fact, I would like to see a good map of all troop
                                      > positions on the 16th and on the night before the battle.
                                      >
                                      > Where was Jackson's HQ at the start of the battle?
                                      >
                                      > Where in the West Woods was Oliver W. Holmes, Jr. standing when
                                      he was wounded? and where was he eventually found?
                                      >
                                      > Bill Christen
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                      Service.
                                      >
                                      >
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