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Re: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the route taken by the other divisions to Antietam

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Hi Dean, Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example, crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
      Hi Dean,
      Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example, crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding no rations available, marched to Charlestown and then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took the roads through Halltown and joining the road from Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched directly to the ford. This is off the top of my head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and some other sources.


      Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College




      >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008 12:03 PM >>>

      Hi Guys!

      In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the park to examine certain terrain and map
      issues.

      One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally (as best I can) is the difference in milage
      between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by Hill as compared to the divisions that
      went northward earlier.

      I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having trouble pinning down the route McLaws
      and the others took. As I understand it, it was different, using better and shorter roads than
      the serpentine river route Hill took.

      Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions take?




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dean Essig
      That s right Gerry, McLaws had to cross over at HF before starting the march to Sharpsburg. The direct route would have been much shorter than Hill s (but
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
        That's right Gerry, McLaws had to cross over at HF
        before starting the march to Sharpsburg. The direct
        route would have been much shorter than Hill's (but
        frought with Yankees as it were :-)

        --- G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:

        > Dean,
        >
        > McLaws division, IIRC, was already in Pleasant
        > Valley area when
        > the order came to rejoin the Army at Sharpsburg and
        > would have
        > possibly had a shorter route to march.
        >
        > IIRC, Hill came straight up from HF via the Harper's
        > Ferry Road.
        > He drove the men of his Light Division relentlessly
        > from the
        > start of march until those elements still on their
        > feet went
        > right into battle line from line of march upon
        > reaching the
        > field.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers


        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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        know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
      • Dean Essig
        Thanks Tom! I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn t able to find the right section just now in my prep work. Oh, if you happen to see two idiots
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
          Thanks Tom!

          I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
          find the right section just now in my prep work.

          Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
          the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
          formations, that'll be us. ;-)

          --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:

          > Hi Dean,
          > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
          > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
          > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
          > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
          > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
          > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
          > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
          > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
          > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
          > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
          > some other sources.
          >
          >
          > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
          > Professor of History
          > Hagerstown Community College
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008
          > 12:03 PM >>>
          >
          > Hi Guys!
          >
          > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
          > park to examine certain terrain and map
          > issues.
          >
          > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
          > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
          > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
          > Hill as compared to the divisions that
          > went northward earlier.
          >
          > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
          > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
          > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
          > different, using better and shorter roads than
          > the serpentine river route Hill took.
          >
          > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
          > take?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Be a better friend, newshound, and
          know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
        • Harry Smeltzer
          Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east of north. Should make them easier to find for you ;-) Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
            Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east of north. Should make
            them easier to find for you ;-)

            Harry



            -----Original Message-----
            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Dean Essig
            Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:11 PM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the route taken by the other
            divisions to Antietam



            Thanks Tom!

            I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
            find the right section just now in my prep work.

            Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
            the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
            formations, that'll be us. ;-)

            --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@hagerstown <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>
            cc.edu> wrote:

            > Hi Dean,
            > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
            > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
            > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
            > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
            > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
            > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
            > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
            > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
            > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
            > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
            > some other sources.
            >
            >
            > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
            > Professor of History
            > Hagerstown Community College
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@yahoo. <mailto:dean_essig%40yahoo.com> com>
            4/24/2008
            > 12:03 PM >>>
            >
            > Hi Guys!
            >
            > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
            > park to examine certain terrain and map
            > issues.
            >
            > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
            > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
            > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
            > Hill as compared to the divisions that
            > went northward earlier.
            >
            > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
            > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
            > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
            > different, using better and shorter roads than
            > the serpentine river route Hill took.
            >
            > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
            > take?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            __________________________________________________________
            Be a better friend, newshound, and
            know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.
            <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
            yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dean Essig
            There s one in every crowd. :-) ... ...
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
              There's one in every crowd. :-)

              --- Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...> wrote:

              > Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east
              > of north. Should make
              > them easier to find for you ;-)
              >
              > Harry
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Dean Essig
              > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:11 PM
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the
              > route taken by the other
              > divisions to Antietam
              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks Tom!
              >
              > I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able
              > to
              > find the right section just now in my prep work.
              >
              > Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
              > the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
              > formations, that'll be us. ;-)
              >
              > --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@hagerstown
              > <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>
              > cc.edu> wrote:
              >
              > > Hi Dean,
              > > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
              > > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
              > > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
              > > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
              > > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
              > > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably
              > took
              > > the roads through Halltown and joining the road
              > from
              > > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection
              > marched
              > > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
              > > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood
              > and
              > > some other sources.
              > >
              > >
              > > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
              > > Professor of History
              > > Hagerstown Community College
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@yahoo.
              > <mailto:dean_essig%40yahoo.com> com>
              > 4/24/2008
              > > 12:03 PM >>>
              > >
              > > Hi Guys!
              > >
              > > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to
              > the
              > > park to examine certain terrain and map
              > > issues.
              > >
              > > One of the things I'll be looking at
              > experimentally
              > > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
              > > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
              > > Hill as compared to the divisions that
              > > went northward earlier.
              > >
              > > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am
              > having
              > > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
              > > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
              > > different, using better and shorter roads than
              > > the serpentine river route Hill took.
              > >
              > > Is this accurate? What route did the other
              > divisions
              > > take?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > > removed]
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              __________________________________________________________
              > Be a better friend, newshound, and
              > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
              > http://mobile.
              >
              <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
              > yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >




              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Be a better friend, newshound, and
              know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Be a better friend, newshound, and
              know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
            • Thomas Clemens
              Just walk the new West Woods trail, you ll see them there. Dr. Thomas G. Clemens Professor of History Hagerstown Community College ... Thanks Tom! I thought I
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
                Just walk the new West Woods trail, you'll see them there.


                Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College




                >>> Dean Essig <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008 1:10 PM >>>

                Thanks Tom!

                I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
                find the right section just now in my prep work.

                Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
                the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
                formations, that'll be us. ;-)

                --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:

                > Hi Dean,
                > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
                > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
                > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
                > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
                > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
                > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
                > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
                > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
                > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
                > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
                > some other sources.
                >
                >
                > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                > Professor of History
                > Hagerstown Community College
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008
                > 12:03 PM >>>
                >
                > Hi Guys!
                >
                > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
                > park to examine certain terrain and map
                > issues.
                >
                > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
                > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
                > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
                > Hill as compared to the divisions that
                > went northward earlier.
                >
                > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
                > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
                > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
                > different, using better and shorter roads than
                > the serpentine river route Hill took.
                >
                > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
                > take?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                __________________________________________________________
                Be a better friend, newshound, and
                know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Steve
                The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill s march route. The way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it a few weeks ago, going
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
                  The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill's march route. The
                  way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it a few
                  weeks ago, going the opposite direction of the march (which may explain
                  why I had issues in Shepherdstown).

                  Hill did not come up the Harper's Ferry Rd, but left HF on what is now
                  Rt. 28, crossed at Boteler's Ford, and moved to the right along
                  Miller's Sawmill Rd.

                  I also walked the West Woods Trail a couple weeks ago. Wicked
                  terrain. And when you stop at the 15th MA monument, you can really see
                  the importance of Hauser's Ridge as an artillery position, and imagine
                  what Sedgwick's men faced when they moved to the edge of the woods.

                  Steve
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Steve, That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of Sedgwick s division
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
                    Dear Steve,

                    That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where
                    the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of
                    Sedgwick's division fought it out with some of the Confederate
                    brigades immediately prior to being "bushwhacked"?

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Steve" <myness@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:26 AM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: AP Hill's route vs the route taken by
                    the other divisions to Antietam


                    The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill's march route.
                    The
                    way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it
                    a few
                    weeks ago, going the opposite direction of the march (which may
                    explain
                    why I had issues in Shepherdstown).

                    Hill did not come up the Harper's Ferry Rd, but left HF on what
                    is now
                    Rt. 28, crossed at Boteler's Ford, and moved to the right along
                    Miller's Sawmill Rd.

                    I also walked the West Woods Trail a couple weeks ago. Wicked
                    terrain. And when you stop at the 15th MA monument, you can
                    really see
                    the importance of Hauser's Ridge as an artillery position, and
                    imagine
                    what Sedgwick's men faced when they moved to the edge of the
                    woods.

                    Steve
                  • Steve
                    Gerry, I checked the War College guide at lunch - I didn t realize the 15th MA was Gorman s flank regiment, or that the right of his line was actually on the
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
                      Gerry,

                      I checked the War College guide at lunch - I didn't realize the 15th MA
                      was Gorman's flank regiment, or that the right of his line was actually
                      on the other side of the bypass. I haven't spent much time in the West
                      Woods in the past, and I'm looking forward to going back after I finish
                      the new Armstrong book.

                      Steve


                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Steve,
                      >
                      > That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where
                      > the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of
                      > Sedgwick's division fought it out with some of the Confederate
                      > brigades immediately prior to being "bushwhacked"?
                      >
                      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >
                      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
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