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Re: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the route taken by the other divisions to Antietam

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  • G E Mayers
    Dean, McLaws division, IIRC, was already in Pleasant Valley area when the order came to rejoin the Army at Sharpsburg and would have possibly had a shorter
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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      Dean,

      McLaws division, IIRC, was already in Pleasant Valley area when
      the order came to rejoin the Army at Sharpsburg and would have
      possibly had a shorter route to march.

      IIRC, Hill came straight up from HF via the Harper's Ferry Road.
      He drove the men of his Light Division relentlessly from the
      start of march until those elements still on their feet went
      right into battle line from line of march upon reaching the
      field.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:03 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the route taken by the
      other divisions to Antietam


      Hi Guys!

      In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the park to
      examine certain terrain and map
      issues.

      One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally (as best I
      can) is the difference in milage
      between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by Hill as
      compared to the divisions that
      went northward earlier.

      I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having trouble
      pinning down the route McLaws
      and the others took. As I understand it, it was different, using
      better and shorter roads than
      the serpentine river route Hill took.

      Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions take?
    • Thomas Clemens
      Hi Dean, Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example, crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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        Hi Dean,
        Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example, crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding no rations available, marched to Charlestown and then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took the roads through Halltown and joining the road from Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched directly to the ford. This is off the top of my head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and some other sources.


        Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College




        >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008 12:03 PM >>>

        Hi Guys!

        In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the park to examine certain terrain and map
        issues.

        One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally (as best I can) is the difference in milage
        between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by Hill as compared to the divisions that
        went northward earlier.

        I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having trouble pinning down the route McLaws
        and the others took. As I understand it, it was different, using better and shorter roads than
        the serpentine river route Hill took.

        Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions take?




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dean Essig
        That s right Gerry, McLaws had to cross over at HF before starting the march to Sharpsburg. The direct route would have been much shorter than Hill s (but
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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          That's right Gerry, McLaws had to cross over at HF
          before starting the march to Sharpsburg. The direct
          route would have been much shorter than Hill's (but
          frought with Yankees as it were :-)

          --- G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:

          > Dean,
          >
          > McLaws division, IIRC, was already in Pleasant
          > Valley area when
          > the order came to rejoin the Army at Sharpsburg and
          > would have
          > possibly had a shorter route to march.
          >
          > IIRC, Hill came straight up from HF via the Harper's
          > Ferry Road.
          > He drove the men of his Light Division relentlessly
          > from the
          > start of march until those elements still on their
          > feet went
          > right into battle line from line of march upon
          > reaching the
          > field.
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers


          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Be a better friend, newshound, and
          know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
        • Dean Essig
          Thanks Tom! I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn t able to find the right section just now in my prep work. Oh, if you happen to see two idiots
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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            Thanks Tom!

            I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
            find the right section just now in my prep work.

            Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
            the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
            formations, that'll be us. ;-)

            --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:

            > Hi Dean,
            > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
            > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
            > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
            > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
            > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
            > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
            > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
            > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
            > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
            > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
            > some other sources.
            >
            >
            > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
            > Professor of History
            > Hagerstown Community College
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008
            > 12:03 PM >>>
            >
            > Hi Guys!
            >
            > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
            > park to examine certain terrain and map
            > issues.
            >
            > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
            > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
            > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
            > Hill as compared to the divisions that
            > went northward earlier.
            >
            > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
            > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
            > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
            > different, using better and shorter roads than
            > the serpentine river route Hill took.
            >
            > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
            > take?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            Be a better friend, newshound, and
            know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
          • Harry Smeltzer
            Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east of north. Should make them easier to find for you ;-) Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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              Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east of north. Should make
              them easier to find for you ;-)

              Harry



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Dean Essig
              Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:11 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the route taken by the other
              divisions to Antietam



              Thanks Tom!

              I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
              find the right section just now in my prep work.

              Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
              the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
              formations, that'll be us. ;-)

              --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@hagerstown <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>
              cc.edu> wrote:

              > Hi Dean,
              > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
              > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
              > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
              > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
              > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
              > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
              > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
              > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
              > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
              > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
              > some other sources.
              >
              >
              > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
              > Professor of History
              > Hagerstown Community College
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@yahoo. <mailto:dean_essig%40yahoo.com> com>
              4/24/2008
              > 12:03 PM >>>
              >
              > Hi Guys!
              >
              > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
              > park to examine certain terrain and map
              > issues.
              >
              > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
              > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
              > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
              > Hill as compared to the divisions that
              > went northward earlier.
              >
              > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
              > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
              > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
              > different, using better and shorter roads than
              > the serpentine river route Hill took.
              >
              > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
              > take?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              __________________________________________________________
              Be a better friend, newshound, and
              know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.
              <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
              yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dean Essig
              There s one in every crowd. :-) ... ...
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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                There's one in every crowd. :-)

                --- Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...> wrote:

                > Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east
                > of north. Should make
                > them easier to find for you ;-)
                >
                > Harry
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Dean Essig
                > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:11 PM
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the
                > route taken by the other
                > divisions to Antietam
                >
                >
                >
                > Thanks Tom!
                >
                > I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able
                > to
                > find the right section just now in my prep work.
                >
                > Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
                > the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
                > formations, that'll be us. ;-)
                >
                > --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@hagerstown
                > <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>
                > cc.edu> wrote:
                >
                > > Hi Dean,
                > > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
                > > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
                > > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
                > > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
                > > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
                > > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably
                > took
                > > the roads through Halltown and joining the road
                > from
                > > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection
                > marched
                > > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
                > > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood
                > and
                > > some other sources.
                > >
                > >
                > > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                > > Professor of History
                > > Hagerstown Community College
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@yahoo.
                > <mailto:dean_essig%40yahoo.com> com>
                > 4/24/2008
                > > 12:03 PM >>>
                > >
                > > Hi Guys!
                > >
                > > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to
                > the
                > > park to examine certain terrain and map
                > > issues.
                > >
                > > One of the things I'll be looking at
                > experimentally
                > > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
                > > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
                > > Hill as compared to the divisions that
                > > went northward earlier.
                > >
                > > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am
                > having
                > > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
                > > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
                > > different, using better and shorter roads than
                > > the serpentine river route Hill took.
                > >
                > > Is this accurate? What route did the other
                > divisions
                > > take?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > > removed]
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                __________________________________________________________
                > Be a better friend, newshound, and
                > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
                > http://mobile.
                >
                <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
                > yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >




                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Be a better friend, newshound, and
                know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Be a better friend, newshound, and
                know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
              • Thomas Clemens
                Just walk the new West Woods trail, you ll see them there. Dr. Thomas G. Clemens Professor of History Hagerstown Community College ... Thanks Tom! I thought I
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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                  Just walk the new West Woods trail, you'll see them there.


                  Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College




                  >>> Dean Essig <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008 1:10 PM >>>

                  Thanks Tom!

                  I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
                  find the right section just now in my prep work.

                  Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
                  the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
                  formations, that'll be us. ;-)

                  --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:

                  > Hi Dean,
                  > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
                  > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
                  > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
                  > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
                  > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
                  > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
                  > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
                  > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
                  > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
                  > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
                  > some other sources.
                  >
                  >
                  > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                  > Professor of History
                  > Hagerstown Community College
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008
                  > 12:03 PM >>>
                  >
                  > Hi Guys!
                  >
                  > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
                  > park to examine certain terrain and map
                  > issues.
                  >
                  > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
                  > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
                  > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
                  > Hill as compared to the divisions that
                  > went northward earlier.
                  >
                  > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
                  > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
                  > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
                  > different, using better and shorter roads than
                  > the serpentine river route Hill took.
                  >
                  > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
                  > take?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  __________________________________________________________
                  Be a better friend, newshound, and
                  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Steve
                  The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill s march route. The way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it a few weeks ago, going
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
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                    The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill's march route. The
                    way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it a few
                    weeks ago, going the opposite direction of the march (which may explain
                    why I had issues in Shepherdstown).

                    Hill did not come up the Harper's Ferry Rd, but left HF on what is now
                    Rt. 28, crossed at Boteler's Ford, and moved to the right along
                    Miller's Sawmill Rd.

                    I also walked the West Woods Trail a couple weeks ago. Wicked
                    terrain. And when you stop at the 15th MA monument, you can really see
                    the importance of Hauser's Ridge as an artillery position, and imagine
                    what Sedgwick's men faced when they moved to the edge of the woods.

                    Steve
                  • G E Mayers
                    Dear Steve, That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of Sedgwick s division
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
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                      Dear Steve,

                      That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where
                      the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of
                      Sedgwick's division fought it out with some of the Confederate
                      brigades immediately prior to being "bushwhacked"?

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Steve" <myness@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:26 AM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: AP Hill's route vs the route taken by
                      the other divisions to Antietam


                      The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill's march route.
                      The
                      way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it
                      a few
                      weeks ago, going the opposite direction of the march (which may
                      explain
                      why I had issues in Shepherdstown).

                      Hill did not come up the Harper's Ferry Rd, but left HF on what
                      is now
                      Rt. 28, crossed at Boteler's Ford, and moved to the right along
                      Miller's Sawmill Rd.

                      I also walked the West Woods Trail a couple weeks ago. Wicked
                      terrain. And when you stop at the 15th MA monument, you can
                      really see
                      the importance of Hauser's Ridge as an artillery position, and
                      imagine
                      what Sedgwick's men faced when they moved to the edge of the
                      woods.

                      Steve
                    • Steve
                      Gerry, I checked the War College guide at lunch - I didn t realize the 15th MA was Gorman s flank regiment, or that the right of his line was actually on the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
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                        Gerry,

                        I checked the War College guide at lunch - I didn't realize the 15th MA
                        was Gorman's flank regiment, or that the right of his line was actually
                        on the other side of the bypass. I haven't spent much time in the West
                        Woods in the past, and I'm looking forward to going back after I finish
                        the new Armstrong book.

                        Steve


                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Steve,
                        >
                        > That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where
                        > the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of
                        > Sedgwick's division fought it out with some of the Confederate
                        > brigades immediately prior to being "bushwhacked"?
                        >
                        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        >
                        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
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