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AP Hill's route vs the route taken by the other divisions to Antietam

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  • dean_essig
    Hi Guys! In a couple of weeks, I ll be going on a trip to the park to examine certain terrain and map issues. One of the things I ll be looking at
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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      Hi Guys!

      In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the park to examine certain terrain and map
      issues.

      One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally (as best I can) is the difference in milage
      between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by Hill as compared to the divisions that
      went northward earlier.

      I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having trouble pinning down the route McLaws
      and the others took. As I understand it, it was different, using better and shorter roads than
      the serpentine river route Hill took.

      Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions take?
    • G E Mayers
      Dean, McLaws division, IIRC, was already in Pleasant Valley area when the order came to rejoin the Army at Sharpsburg and would have possibly had a shorter
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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        Dean,

        McLaws division, IIRC, was already in Pleasant Valley area when
        the order came to rejoin the Army at Sharpsburg and would have
        possibly had a shorter route to march.

        IIRC, Hill came straight up from HF via the Harper's Ferry Road.
        He drove the men of his Light Division relentlessly from the
        start of march until those elements still on their feet went
        right into battle line from line of march upon reaching the
        field.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:03 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the route taken by the
        other divisions to Antietam


        Hi Guys!

        In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the park to
        examine certain terrain and map
        issues.

        One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally (as best I
        can) is the difference in milage
        between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by Hill as
        compared to the divisions that
        went northward earlier.

        I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having trouble
        pinning down the route McLaws
        and the others took. As I understand it, it was different, using
        better and shorter roads than
        the serpentine river route Hill took.

        Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions take?
      • Thomas Clemens
        Hi Dean, Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example, crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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          Hi Dean,
          Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example, crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding no rations available, marched to Charlestown and then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took the roads through Halltown and joining the road from Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched directly to the ford. This is off the top of my head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and some other sources.


          Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College




          >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008 12:03 PM >>>

          Hi Guys!

          In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the park to examine certain terrain and map
          issues.

          One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally (as best I can) is the difference in milage
          between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by Hill as compared to the divisions that
          went northward earlier.

          I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having trouble pinning down the route McLaws
          and the others took. As I understand it, it was different, using better and shorter roads than
          the serpentine river route Hill took.

          Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions take?




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dean Essig
          That s right Gerry, McLaws had to cross over at HF before starting the march to Sharpsburg. The direct route would have been much shorter than Hill s (but
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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            That's right Gerry, McLaws had to cross over at HF
            before starting the march to Sharpsburg. The direct
            route would have been much shorter than Hill's (but
            frought with Yankees as it were :-)

            --- G E Mayers <gerry1952@...> wrote:

            > Dean,
            >
            > McLaws division, IIRC, was already in Pleasant
            > Valley area when
            > the order came to rejoin the Army at Sharpsburg and
            > would have
            > possibly had a shorter route to march.
            >
            > IIRC, Hill came straight up from HF via the Harper's
            > Ferry Road.
            > He drove the men of his Light Division relentlessly
            > from the
            > start of march until those elements still on their
            > feet went
            > right into battle line from line of march upon
            > reaching the
            > field.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers


            ____________________________________________________________________________________
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            know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
          • Dean Essig
            Thanks Tom! I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn t able to find the right section just now in my prep work. Oh, if you happen to see two idiots
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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              Thanks Tom!

              I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
              find the right section just now in my prep work.

              Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
              the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
              formations, that'll be us. ;-)

              --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:

              > Hi Dean,
              > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
              > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
              > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
              > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
              > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
              > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
              > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
              > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
              > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
              > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
              > some other sources.
              >
              >
              > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
              > Professor of History
              > Hagerstown Community College
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008
              > 12:03 PM >>>
              >
              > Hi Guys!
              >
              > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
              > park to examine certain terrain and map
              > issues.
              >
              > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
              > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
              > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
              > Hill as compared to the divisions that
              > went northward earlier.
              >
              > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
              > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
              > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
              > different, using better and shorter roads than
              > the serpentine river route Hill took.
              >
              > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
              > take?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Be a better friend, newshound, and
              know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
            • Harry Smeltzer
              Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east of north. Should make them easier to find for you ;-) Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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                Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east of north. Should make
                them easier to find for you ;-)

                Harry



                -----Original Message-----
                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Dean Essig
                Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:11 PM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the route taken by the other
                divisions to Antietam



                Thanks Tom!

                I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
                find the right section just now in my prep work.

                Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
                the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
                formations, that'll be us. ;-)

                --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@hagerstown <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>
                cc.edu> wrote:

                > Hi Dean,
                > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
                > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
                > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
                > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
                > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
                > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
                > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
                > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
                > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
                > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
                > some other sources.
                >
                >
                > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                > Professor of History
                > Hagerstown Community College
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@yahoo. <mailto:dean_essig%40yahoo.com> com>
                4/24/2008
                > 12:03 PM >>>
                >
                > Hi Guys!
                >
                > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
                > park to examine certain terrain and map
                > issues.
                >
                > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
                > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
                > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
                > Hill as compared to the divisions that
                > went northward earlier.
                >
                > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
                > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
                > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
                > different, using better and shorter roads than
                > the serpentine river route Hill took.
                >
                > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
                > take?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                __________________________________________________________
                Be a better friend, newshound, and
                know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.
                <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
                yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dean Essig
                There s one in every crowd. :-) ... ...
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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                  There's one in every crowd. :-)

                  --- Harry Smeltzer <hjs21@...> wrote:

                  > Dean, IIRC all the ledges run about 23 degrees east
                  > of north. Should make
                  > them easier to find for you ;-)
                  >
                  > Harry
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of Dean Essig
                  > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:11 PM
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] AP Hill's route vs the
                  > route taken by the other
                  > divisions to Antietam
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks Tom!
                  >
                  > I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able
                  > to
                  > find the right section just now in my prep work.
                  >
                  > Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
                  > the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
                  > formations, that'll be us. ;-)
                  >
                  > --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@hagerstown
                  > <mailto:clemenst%40hagerstowncc.edu>
                  > cc.edu> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi Dean,
                  > > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
                  > > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
                  > > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
                  > > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
                  > > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
                  > > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably
                  > took
                  > > the roads through Halltown and joining the road
                  > from
                  > > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection
                  > marched
                  > > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
                  > > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood
                  > and
                  > > some other sources.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                  > > Professor of History
                  > > Hagerstown Community College
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@yahoo.
                  > <mailto:dean_essig%40yahoo.com> com>
                  > 4/24/2008
                  > > 12:03 PM >>>
                  > >
                  > > Hi Guys!
                  > >
                  > > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to
                  > the
                  > > park to examine certain terrain and map
                  > > issues.
                  > >
                  > > One of the things I'll be looking at
                  > experimentally
                  > > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
                  > > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
                  > > Hill as compared to the divisions that
                  > > went northward earlier.
                  > >
                  > > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am
                  > having
                  > > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
                  > > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
                  > > different, using better and shorter roads than
                  > > the serpentine river route Hill took.
                  > >
                  > > Is this accurate? What route did the other
                  > divisions
                  > > take?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > > removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  __________________________________________________________
                  > Be a better friend, newshound, and
                  > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
                  > http://mobile.
                  >
                  <http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
                  > yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >




                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                  Be a better friend, newshound, and
                  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                  Be a better friend, newshound, and
                  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                • Thomas Clemens
                  Just walk the new West Woods trail, you ll see them there. Dr. Thomas G. Clemens Professor of History Hagerstown Community College ... Thanks Tom! I thought I
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 24, 2008
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                    Just walk the new West Woods trail, you'll see them there.


                    Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College




                    >>> Dean Essig <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008 1:10 PM >>>

                    Thanks Tom!

                    I thought I had seen that in Harsh, but wasn't able to
                    find the right section just now in my prep work.

                    Oh, if you happen to see two idiots wandering around
                    the West Woods looking for additional rock ledge
                    formations, that'll be us. ;-)

                    --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:

                    > Hi Dean,
                    > Yes the routes did vary. McLaws, for example,
                    > crossed over the pontoon bridge at HF, and finding
                    > no rations available, marched to Charlestown and
                    > then poceeded along the road from Charlestown to
                    > Boteler's Ford, using more or less, the Flowing
                    > Spring Road. Most of Jackson's troops probably took
                    > the roads through Halltown and joining the road from
                    > Charlestown at the Trough road intersection marched
                    > directly to the ford. This is off the top of my
                    > head and can be verified with Taken at the Flood and
                    > some other sources.
                    >
                    >
                    > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                    > Professor of History
                    > Hagerstown Community College
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 4/24/2008
                    > 12:03 PM >>>
                    >
                    > Hi Guys!
                    >
                    > In a couple of weeks, I'll be going on a trip to the
                    > park to examine certain terrain and map
                    > issues.
                    >
                    > One of the things I'll be looking at experimentally
                    > (as best I can) is the difference in milage
                    > between the routes taken from HF to Sharpsburg by
                    > Hill as compared to the divisions that
                    > went northward earlier.
                    >
                    > I have a great idea of the Hill route, but am having
                    > trouble pinning down the route McLaws
                    > and the others took. As I understand it, it was
                    > different, using better and shorter roads than
                    > the serpentine river route Hill took.
                    >
                    > Is this accurate? What route did the other divisions
                    > take?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    __________________________________________________________
                    Be a better friend, newshound, and
                    know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Steve
                    The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill s march route. The way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it a few weeks ago, going
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
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                      The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill's march route. The
                      way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it a few
                      weeks ago, going the opposite direction of the march (which may explain
                      why I had issues in Shepherdstown).

                      Hill did not come up the Harper's Ferry Rd, but left HF on what is now
                      Rt. 28, crossed at Boteler's Ford, and moved to the right along
                      Miller's Sawmill Rd.

                      I also walked the West Woods Trail a couple weeks ago. Wicked
                      terrain. And when you stop at the 15th MA monument, you can really see
                      the importance of Hauser's Ridge as an artillery position, and imagine
                      what Sedgwick's men faced when they moved to the edge of the woods.

                      Steve
                    • G E Mayers
                      Dear Steve, That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of Sedgwick s division
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
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                        Dear Steve,

                        That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where
                        the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of
                        Sedgwick's division fought it out with some of the Confederate
                        brigades immediately prior to being "bushwhacked"?

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Steve" <myness@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 10:26 AM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: AP Hill's route vs the route taken by
                        the other divisions to Antietam


                        The Visitors Center has a driving tour map of Hill's march route.
                        The
                        way through Sheperdstown requires a bit of guesswork. I drove it
                        a few
                        weeks ago, going the opposite direction of the march (which may
                        explain
                        why I had issues in Shepherdstown).

                        Hill did not come up the Harper's Ferry Rd, but left HF on what
                        is now
                        Rt. 28, crossed at Boteler's Ford, and moved to the right along
                        Miller's Sawmill Rd.

                        I also walked the West Woods Trail a couple weeks ago. Wicked
                        terrain. And when you stop at the 15th MA monument, you can
                        really see
                        the importance of Hauser's Ridge as an artillery position, and
                        imagine
                        what Sedgwick's men faced when they moved to the edge of the
                        woods.

                        Steve
                      • Steve
                        Gerry, I checked the War College guide at lunch - I didn t realize the 15th MA was Gorman s flank regiment, or that the right of his line was actually on the
                        Message 11 of 11 , Apr 25, 2008
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                          Gerry,

                          I checked the War College guide at lunch - I didn't realize the 15th MA
                          was Gorman's flank regiment, or that the right of his line was actually
                          on the other side of the bypass. I haven't spent much time in the West
                          Woods in the past, and I'm looking forward to going back after I finish
                          the new Armstrong book.

                          Steve


                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Steve,
                          >
                          > That new trail must be something! Also, do you know that where
                          > the present SR65 bypass is largely where the lead brigade of
                          > Sedgwick's division fought it out with some of the Confederate
                          > brigades immediately prior to being "bushwhacked"?
                          >
                          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >
                          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
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