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NC Monument at Fox's Gap and Positions of Garland's Regiments

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  • Steve
    I was hiking around Fox s Gap yesterday (cold!) and saw the NC monument there for the first time. I have been trying to determine the position of the monument
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 31, 2008
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      I was hiking around Fox's Gap yesterday (cold!) and saw the NC monument
      there for the first time. I have been trying to determine the position
      of the monument relative to that of the 5th/23rd and 20th NC regiments
      during the fight for the gap. Can anyone clarify this for me?

      I have been reading Priest's "Before Antietam" and decided to visit the
      ground.

      Thanks!
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Steve, IIRC, the positions of the regiments was more to the right in the fields along Lamb s Knoll Road heading towards the saddle in the distance (follow
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 31, 2008
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        Dear Steve,

        IIRC, the positions of the regiments was more to the right in the
        fields along Lamb's Knoll Road heading towards the saddle in the
        distance (follow the power lines). The regiments in Garland's
        brigade were not linked together but spread out to afford as much
        coverage possible of the ground.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Steve" <myness@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:42 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] NC Monument at Fox's Gap and Positions of
        Garland's Regiments


        I was hiking around Fox's Gap yesterday (cold!) and saw the NC
        monument
        there for the first time. I have been trying to determine the
        position
        of the monument relative to that of the 5th/23rd and 20th NC
        regiments
        during the fight for the gap. Can anyone clarify this for me?

        I have been reading Priest's "Before Antietam" and decided to
        visit the
        ground.

        Thanks!
      • Thomas Clemens
        Steve, A friend who is quite an authority on Fox s Gap sends this for a reply: Please allow me to return a favor to the Talk Antietam group. The North
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 1 6:36 AM
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          Steve,
          A friend who is quite an authority on Fox's Gap sends this for a reply:\

          Please allow me to return a favor to the Talk Antietam group.

          The North Carolina Monument is directly adjacent to the last position occupied by the 20th N.C.. that is the open field immediately south of the monument. The next field south was occupied by the 23rd N.C. The 5th N.C. was in the farthest field south under the present power lines. Bondurants battery was deployed to the left (north) of the 5th N.C. and Rosser's 5th Va. Cav. (dismounted), plus two guns of Stuart's Horse Artillery to the right (south) of the 5th N.C. The 12th N.C. was in reserve to the left of the 5th, eventually they marched out into the field and were engaged in the late morning.
          The 13th N.C. remained in the vicinity of Wise's Field and were eventually joined in the late morning by Anderson's 2nd and 4th N.C.

          Steve should be aware that Priest's maps are highly inaccurate. They show the Fox's Gap combat taking place in an area about half the actual size of the battlefield.

          Hope this helps,


          Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College




          >>> "Steve" <myness@...> 3/31/2008 4:42 PM >>>

          I was hiking around Fox's Gap yesterday (cold!) and saw the NC monument
          there for the first time. I have been trying to determine the position
          of the monument relative to that of the 5th/23rd and 20th NC regiments
          during the fight for the gap. Can anyone clarify this for me?

          I have been reading Priest's "Before Antietam" and decided to visit the
          ground.

          Thanks!




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steve
          That is quite helpful, and helps to explain my confusion of distance while trying to match the maps in the book to the ground. I m going to dust off my copy
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 1 1:48 PM
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            That is quite helpful, and helps to explain my confusion of distance
            while trying to match the maps in the book to the ground. I'm going to
            dust off my copy of the War College Guide - with that and these notes,
            I ought to be able to get my bearings.

            Many thanks, Dr. Clemens and Gerry! Now, if my wife will just let me
            stop there on the way home from park day at Antietam this Saturday!

            Thanks,

            Steve
          • G E Mayers
            Steve... Simple solution to that problem....do not tell her! Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 1 2:10 PM
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              Steve...

              Simple solution to that problem....do not tell her!

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Steve" <myness@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:48 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: NC Monument at Fox's Gap and
              Positions of Garland's Regiments


              That is quite helpful, and helps to explain my confusion of
              distance
              while trying to match the maps in the book to the ground. I'm
              going to
              dust off my copy of the War College Guide - with that and these
              notes,
              I ought to be able to get my bearings.

              Many thanks, Dr. Clemens and Gerry! Now, if my wife will just
              let me
              stop there on the way home from park day at Antietam this
              Saturday!

              Thanks,

              Steve
            • Steve
              LOL! Speaking of Obt. Svt s - I already spilled the beans. But my wife is very indulging of my battlefield obsession. She loves the outdoors, and doesn t
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 2 10:49 AM
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                LOL! Speaking of Obt. Svt's - I already spilled the beans. But my
                wife is very indulging of my battlefield obsession. She loves the
                outdoors, and doesn't mind me droning on about this or that
                regiment.

                I am also thinking about hiking the portion of the Appalachian Trail
                between Turner's and Fox's Gaps, which I am guessing follows the
                trace of the old Mountain Rd?

                Steve

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Steve...
                >
                > Simple solution to that problem....do not tell her!
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Steve" <myness@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:48 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: NC Monument at Fox's Gap and
                > Positions of Garland's Regiments
                >
                >
                > That is quite helpful, and helps to explain my confusion of
                > distance
                > while trying to match the maps in the book to the ground. I'm
                > going to
                > dust off my copy of the War College Guide - with that and these
                > notes,
                > I ought to be able to get my bearings.
                >
                > Many thanks, Dr. Clemens and Gerry! Now, if my wife will just
                > let me
                > stop there on the way home from park day at Antietam this
                > Saturday!
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Steve
                >
              • Thomas Clemens
                Yes it does, or the Wood road as they called it. If you start north from Fox s Gap, where the Stonewall regiment marker is located, it will bring you out at
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 2 10:52 AM
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                  Yes it does, or the Wood road as they called it. If you start north from Fox's Gap, where the Stonewall regiment marker is located, it will bring you out at South Mt. Inn's parking lot.


                  Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College




                  >>> "Steve" <myness@...> 4/2/2008 1:49 PM >>>

                  LOL! Speaking of Obt. Svt's - I already spilled the beans. But my
                  wife is very indulging of my battlefield obsession. She loves the
                  outdoors, and doesn't mind me droning on about this or that
                  regiment.

                  I am also thinking about hiking the portion of the Appalachian Trail
                  between Turner's and Fox's Gaps, which I am guessing follows the
                  trace of the old Mountain Rd?

                  Steve

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Steve...
                  >
                  > Simple solution to that problem....do not tell her!
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Steve" <myness@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:48 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: NC Monument at Fox's Gap and
                  > Positions of Garland's Regiments
                  >
                  >
                  > That is quite helpful, and helps to explain my confusion of
                  > distance
                  > while trying to match the maps in the book to the ground. I'm
                  > going to
                  > dust off my copy of the War College Guide - with that and these
                  > notes,
                  > I ought to be able to get my bearings.
                  >
                  > Many thanks, Dr. Clemens and Gerry! Now, if my wife will just
                  > let me
                  > stop there on the way home from park day at Antietam this
                  > Saturday!
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Steve
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Tom, Some maps I have seen of the area depicting how it looked in 1862 seem to indicate the presence of another woods road which linked up with the wood
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 2 2:46 PM
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                    Dear Tom,

                    Some maps I have seen of the area depicting how it looked in 1862
                    seem to indicate the presence of another woods road which linked
                    up with the wood road directly from the Mountain House. Both
                    roads joined within a few hundred feet of the Old Sharpsburg
                    Road and then traveled together.

                    Do you know if this is correct?

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:52 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: NC Monument at Fox's Gap and
                    Positions of Garland's Regiments


                    > Yes it does, or the Wood road as they called it. If you start
                    > north from Fox's Gap, where the Stonewall regiment marker is
                    > located, it will bring you out at South Mt. Inn's parking lot.
                    >
                    >
                    > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                    > Professor of History
                    > Hagerstown Community College
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>>> "Steve" <myness@...> 4/2/2008 1:49 PM >>>
                    >
                    > LOL! Speaking of Obt. Svt's - I already spilled the beans. But
                    > my
                    > wife is very indulging of my battlefield obsession. She loves
                    > the
                    > outdoors, and doesn't mind me droning on about this or that
                    > regiment.
                    >
                    > I am also thinking about hiking the portion of the Appalachian
                    > Trail
                    > between Turner's and Fox's Gaps, which I am guessing follows
                    > the
                    > trace of the old Mountain Rd?
                    >
                    > Steve
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers"
                    > <gerry1952@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Steve...
                    >>
                    >> Simple solution to that problem....do not tell her!
                    >>
                    >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >>
                    >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                    >> even
                    >> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    >> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                    >> from
                    >> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                    >> From: "Steve" <myness@...>
                    >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    >> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:48 PM
                    >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: NC Monument at Fox's Gap and
                    >> Positions of Garland's Regiments
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> That is quite helpful, and helps to explain my confusion of
                    >> distance
                    >> while trying to match the maps in the book to the ground. I'm
                    >> going to
                    >> dust off my copy of the War College Guide - with that and
                    >> these
                    >> notes,
                    >> I ought to be able to get my bearings.
                    >>
                    >> Many thanks, Dr. Clemens and Gerry! Now, if my wife will just
                    >> let me
                    >> stop there on the way home from park day at Antietam this
                    >> Saturday!
                    >>
                    >> Thanks,
                    >>
                    >> Steve
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    Gerry, Due to the nature of use, mostly farming, grazing or wood cutting, there were little roads and trails all over the place along the Ridge or Wood Road.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 7 6:51 AM
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                      Gerry,
                      Due to the nature of use, mostly farming, grazing or wood cutting, there were little roads and trails all over the place along the Ridge or Wood Road. Every farmer that had a lot up there had a "road" leading into his lot, or connecting to another, etc. I am not sure what you're referring to, but I don't doubt that a map might show several roads.


                      Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College




                      >>> "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> 4/2/2008 5:46 PM >>>

                      Dear Tom,

                      Some maps I have seen of the area depicting how it looked in 1862
                      seem to indicate the presence of another woods road which linked
                      up with the wood road directly from the Mountain House. Both
                      roads joined within a few hundred feet of the Old Sharpsburg
                      Road and then traveled together.

                      Do you know if this is correct?

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:52 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: NC Monument at Fox's Gap and
                      Positions of Garland's Regiments

                      > Yes it does, or the Wood road as they called it. If you start
                      > north from Fox's Gap, where the Stonewall regiment marker is
                      > located, it will bring you out at South Mt. Inn's parking lot.
                      >
                      >
                      > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                      > Professor of History
                      > Hagerstown Community College
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >>>> "Steve" <myness@...> 4/2/2008 1:49 PM >>>
                      >
                      > LOL! Speaking of Obt. Svt's - I already spilled the beans. But
                      > my
                      > wife is very indulging of my battlefield obsession. She loves
                      > the
                      > outdoors, and doesn't mind me droning on about this or that
                      > regiment.
                      >
                      > I am also thinking about hiking the portion of the Appalachian
                      > Trail
                      > between Turner's and Fox's Gaps, which I am guessing follows
                      > the
                      > trace of the old Mountain Rd?
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers"
                      > <gerry1952@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Steve...
                      >>
                      >> Simple solution to that problem....do not tell her!
                      >>
                      >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >>
                      >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
                      >> even
                      >> on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      >> Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                      >> from
                      >> the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >> From: "Steve" <myness@...>
                      >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      >> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:48 PM
                      >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: NC Monument at Fox's Gap and
                      >> Positions of Garland's Regiments
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> That is quite helpful, and helps to explain my confusion of
                      >> distance
                      >> while trying to match the maps in the book to the ground. I'm
                      >> going to
                      >> dust off my copy of the War College Guide - with that and
                      >> these
                      >> notes,
                      >> I ought to be able to get my bearings.
                      >>
                      >> Many thanks, Dr. Clemens and Gerry! Now, if my wife will just
                      >> let me
                      >> stop there on the way home from park day at Antietam this
                      >> Saturday!
                      >>
                      >> Thanks,
                      >>
                      >> Steve
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Thomas Clemens
                      Folks, My son and I participated in the Park Day activity at Fox s Gap on Saturday. The MD Park Service is planning a living history event on the first
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 7 7:03 AM
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                        Folks,
                        My son and I participated in the Park Day activity at Fox's Gap on Saturday. The MD Park Service is planning a living history event on the first weekend in June where artillery pieces will occupy some of the original ground where the opening portion of the battle was fought. The owner of the field where Bondurant's Jeff Davis Artillery was located is letting the Park use his land for the event. Saturday we cut out a non-historic tree line to restore the view and allow the proper appearance for the event. It is a great spot and I encourage all to attend the event in June.
                        Also, this coming Saturday, April 12, SHAF is sponsoring a Work Day at Antietam. (We usually schedule a different day from CWPT so that we can get more done, have more NPS folks with us running chain saws, etc. If anyone cares about missing the photo op or the free tee shirt, disregard this message.) If anyone wants to join us for the Work Day, please let me know. We'll meet at the Visitor's Center parking lot at 9:00 and bring gloves, old clothes and water. Dress for the weather, we'll cancel if it is raining. It is likely we'll be removing more of the non-historic tree line between the Mumma and Roulette farms. See you there!



                        Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College



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