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Re: [TalkAntietam] Regiments Brigaded Together

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Dean, With the exception you mentioned of some very small Confederate brigades, I don t think there are any other combined regiments at Antietam. BTW, some
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 25, 2008
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      Dean,
      With the exception you mentioned of some very small Confederate brigades, I don't think there are any other "combined regiments" at Antietam.
      BTW, some Union brigades were pretty small too, Phelps took no more than 425 men into the fight.


      Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College




      >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 3/24/2008 4:34 PM >>>

      Hey Guys!

      Unfurl those Colors makes a point of talking about the delicate nature of regiments
      combining under one commander (essentially to fight as one regiment) and uses the example
      of the 61 and 64 NY under Barlow.

      As such, a lot of this is under the radar, so to speak, is anybody aware of any other such
      brigaded regiments? On either side? at Antietam.

      Naturally, some of the Confederate brigades that contained very, very few men would
      automatically become essentially regiments for drill purposes. That's a different matter than
      what I'm trying to find.

      Basically, I'm trying to find regimental pairs that operated under one of the two colonels.

      Thanks!

      Dean




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dean Essig
      Thanks Tom... just cross-checking here. The group is a wealth of information, if anybody knew, they d be here. Both Phelps and Hofmann are strange brigades.
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 25, 2008
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        Thanks Tom... just cross-checking here. The group is a
        wealth of information, if anybody knew, they'd be
        here.

        Both Phelps and Hofmann are strange brigades. Very
        small, plus both of them had one regiment that was "a
        little bigger" which it used as a second element (2
        USSS with Phelps and the 56 Penn with Hofmann).

        --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:

        > Dean,
        > With the exception you mentioned of some very small
        > Confederate brigades, I don't think there are any
        > other "combined regiments" at Antietam.
        > BTW, some Union brigades were pretty small too,
        > Phelps took no more than 425 men into the fight.
        >
        >
        > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
        > Professor of History
        > Hagerstown Community College
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >>> "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...> 3/24/2008
        > 4:34 PM >>>
        >
        > Hey Guys!
        >
        > Unfurl those Colors makes a point of talking about
        > the delicate nature of regiments
        > combining under one commander (essentially to fight
        > as one regiment) and uses the example
        > of the 61 and 64 NY under Barlow.
        >
        > As such, a lot of this is under the radar, so to
        > speak, is anybody aware of any other such
        > brigaded regiments? On either side? at Antietam.
        >
        > Naturally, some of the Confederate brigades that
        > contained very, very few men would
        > automatically become essentially regiments for drill
        > purposes. That's a different matter than
        > what I'm trying to find.
        >
        > Basically, I'm trying to find regimental pairs that
        > operated under one of the two colonels.
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > Dean
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



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      • joseph_pierro
        Dean: The only other ones that occur to me are some of the Regulars in Lovell s Brigade (2d Div; Fifth Corps). Specifically, the 1st and 6th U.S (Capt. Levi C.
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 26, 2008
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          Dean:

          The only other ones that occur to me are some of the Regulars in
          Lovell's Brigade (2d Div; Fifth Corps).

          Specifically, the 1st and 6th U.S (Capt. Levi C. Bootes) and the 2d
          and 10th U.S. (Capt. John S. Poland).

          --Jake

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hey Guys!
          >
          > Unfurl those Colors makes a point of talking about the delicate
          nature of regiments
          > combining under one commander (essentially to fight as one
          regiment) and uses the example
          > of the 61 and 64 NY under Barlow.
          >
          > As such, a lot of this is under the radar, so to speak, is anybody
          aware of any other such
          > brigaded regiments? On either side? at Antietam.
          >
          > Naturally, some of the Confederate brigades that contained very,
          very few men would
          > automatically become essentially regiments for drill purposes.
          That's a different matter than
          > what I'm trying to find.
          >
          > Basically, I'm trying to find regimental pairs that operated under
          one of the two colonels.
          >
          > Thanks!
          >
          > Dean
          >
        • Dean Essig
          Thanks Jake... I should have remembered them, though aren t they actually organized that way permanently? As opposed to temporary matters? There are several
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 26, 2008
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            Thanks Jake... I should have remembered them, though
            aren't they actually organized that way permanently?
            As opposed to temporary matters?

            There are several regiments of regulars set up like
            that out west, too.

            Dean
            --- joseph_pierro <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:

            > Dean:
            >
            > The only other ones that occur to me are some of the
            > Regulars in
            > Lovell's Brigade (2d Div; Fifth Corps).
            >
            > Specifically, the 1st and 6th U.S (Capt. Levi C.
            > Bootes) and the 2d
            > and 10th U.S. (Capt. John S. Poland).
            >
            > --Jake


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          • Thomas Clemens
            In the AOP some of both. The old regiments only had ten companies, and because all ten were almost never in one place they operated as demi-regiments, or
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 26, 2008
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              In the AOP some of both. The "old" regiments only had ten companies, and because all ten were almost never in one place they operated as demi-regiments, or battalions, the term applied for units with less than ten companies. Thus some of the old regiments fought combined, most notably at 1 BR. Even by Antietam several were small in #s and not having ten compaines were combined. OTOH, the new regiments, 11th thru 18th I think, had a two-battalion structure with eight companies in each. They could, and did, operate separately at times.


              Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College




              >>> Dean Essig <dean_essig@...> 3/26/2008 12:42 PM >>>

              Thanks Jake... I should have remembered them, though
              aren't they actually organized that way permanently?
              As opposed to temporary matters?

              There are several regiments of regulars set up like
              that out west, too.

              Dean
              --- joseph_pierro <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:

              > Dean:
              >
              > The only other ones that occur to me are some of the
              > Regulars in
              > Lovell's Brigade (2d Div; Fifth Corps).
              >
              > Specifically, the 1st and 6th U.S (Capt. Levi C.
              > Bootes) and the 2d
              > and 10th U.S. (Capt. John S. Poland).
              >
              > --Jake

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • joseph_pierro
              Dean: As a practical matter (at least for part of the war), yes (which is to say, it isn t just an ad hoc arrangement for Sept. 17). Technically speaking,
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 26, 2008
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                Dean:

                As a practical matter (at least for part of the war), yes (which is
                to say, it isn't just an ad hoc arrangement for Sept. 17).
                Technically speaking, though, no -- it's never a "permanent" fusion.

                The 2d and the 10th U.S., for instance, are (at least on paper) two
                distinct regimental organizations for the duration.

                Hence, you'll see that on Poland's after-action report for Antietam,
                he signs himself as "Captain Second Infantry, Comdg. Second and Tenth
                Infantry."


                --jake

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Dean Essig <dean_essig@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Jake... I should have remembered them, though
                > aren't they actually organized that way permanently?
                > As opposed to temporary matters?
                >
                > There are several regiments of regulars set up like
                > that out west, too.
                >
                > Dean
                > --- joseph_pierro <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Dean:
                > >
                > > The only other ones that occur to me are some of the
                > > Regulars in
                > > Lovell's Brigade (2d Div; Fifth Corps).
                > >
                > > Specifically, the 1st and 6th U.S (Capt. Levi C.
                > > Bootes) and the 2d
                > > and 10th U.S. (Capt. John S. Poland).
                > >
                > > --Jake
                >
                >
                >
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