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Re: South Mt. purchase

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  • ringgold61
    ... ground occupied by Cook s 8th Mass. Bty., Durell s (E, Pa. Lt.) and/or Clark s (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox s Gap within 300 meters of
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 3, 2002
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      --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
      > David,
      >
      > Without further details, I would hazard a guess that it is the
      ground occupied by Cook's 8th Mass. Bty., Durell's (E, Pa. Lt.)
      and/or Clark's (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox's Gap
      within 300 meters of the Reno Monument. Details of the combat may be
      found in Priest's _Before Antietam_.
      >
      > Curt Johnson


      Curt,

      I'm sure you are aware that Captain Durell's Battery was Independent
      Battery "D", not "E". Knap's Battery was Independent Battery "E."
      It should be noted that at the time of the Battle, Durell's Battery
      was officially designated as the 2nd Independent Pennsylvania
      Battery. They were also unofficially referred to as the Ringgold
      Battery! The "D" designation was not given to the Battery until
      1863. I suppose it's just easier for historians to use the
      designation that they ended their service with.

      The land where these batteries went into action is about 1/2 mile
      down the hill from the Reno Monument towards the former spot of the
      Reno Oak, and on the right side of the road. You can also see it if
      you walk out onto the field across the road from the monument about
      half way to the wood line and look downhill. You can see an open
      area off to the right with a few houses between it and the road. If
      this is the land that was purchased, it is very good news! I was
      just discussing this parcel with Ranger Al Preston of the Maryland
      Parks Dept. (the folks who run the new South Mountain Battlefield
      State Park) a few months ago and he never mentioned that it had been
      saved. We both held the opinion that it should be a priority site
      for preservation. Then again, we're both rather partial to the
      artillery. ;-)

      Mark A. Pflum
      (researcher of Durell's Battery, P.V.)
    • Curt Johnson
      Hi, Mark, Thanks for your comments. I have to tell you, when I sent my initial answer to whoever it was that asked the question (never got a response), I
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 4, 2002
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        Hi, Mark,

        Thanks for your comments. I have to tell you, when I sent my initial answer
        to whoever it was that asked the question (never got a response), I checked
        Mike Priest's book for details: therefore, the designation E, Pa. Lt. I
        guess I should've checked my own book (duh!), which gives Independent Bty.
        D. I can confirm your statement that, at the time of the battle, Durell's
        was designated the 2d Indpt. Pa. Bty., having checked my copies of Hunt's
        and Barry's reports and memoranda. I must have adopted the slightly later
        designation for my book, maybe from Cuffel, so thanks for pointing that out.

        If I understand your comments about the location where these folks went into
        battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the vicinity of the
        site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with that site, there was also
        a site further up the hill and closer to the Reno Monument, where there is a
        shelf on the north side of the road (east of Wise's North Field) that was
        occupied by Federal artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was
        wrecked. All this is off the top of my head.

        Best wishes,
        Curt


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "ringgold61" <ringgold_redleg@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:24 AM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


        > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
        > > David,
        > >
        > > Without further details, I would hazard a guess that it is the
        > ground occupied by Cook's 8th Mass. Bty., Durell's (E, Pa. Lt.)
        > and/or Clark's (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox's Gap
        > within 300 meters of the Reno Monument. Details of the combat may be
        > found in Priest's _Before Antietam_.
        > >
        > > Curt Johnson
        >
        >
        > Curt,
        >
        > I'm sure you are aware that Captain Durell's Battery was Independent
        > Battery "D", not "E". Knap's Battery was Independent Battery "E."
        > It should be noted that at the time of the Battle, Durell's Battery
        > was officially designated as the 2nd Independent Pennsylvania
        > Battery. They were also unofficially referred to as the Ringgold
        > Battery! The "D" designation was not given to the Battery until
        > 1863. I suppose it's just easier for historians to use the
        > designation that they ended their service with.
        >
        > The land where these batteries went into action is about 1/2 mile
        > down the hill from the Reno Monument towards the former spot of the
        > Reno Oak, and on the right side of the road. You can also see it if
        > you walk out onto the field across the road from the monument about
        > half way to the wood line and look downhill. You can see an open
        > area off to the right with a few houses between it and the road. If
        > this is the land that was purchased, it is very good news! I was
        > just discussing this parcel with Ranger Al Preston of the Maryland
        > Parks Dept. (the folks who run the new South Mountain Battlefield
        > State Park) a few months ago and he never mentioned that it had been
        > saved. We both held the opinion that it should be a priority site
        > for preservation. Then again, we're both rather partial to the
        > artillery. ;-)
        >
        > Mark A. Pflum
        > (researcher of Durell's Battery, P.V.)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • ringgold61
        ... Hi, Mark, ... went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don t disagree
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 5, 2002
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          --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
          Hi, Mark,
          <<SNIP>>
          > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
          went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
          vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
          that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
          the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
          road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
          artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
          this is off the top of my head.
          >
          > Best wishes,
          > Curt

          ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
          way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
          monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
          on the mailboxes . . .

          How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
          thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
          fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
          able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
          were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
          front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
          in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
          been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
          was on that mountain.

          Mark A. Pflum
        • David Lutton
          Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a question for me concerning the site of Reno s Oak. My impression was that if one
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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            Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a
            question for me concerning the site of Reno's Oak.
            My impression was that if one was coming down the hill from Reno's Monument
            the site of the oak tree was on the left at the intersection with Fox's Gap
            Road? Is this correct??

            By the way I was the one who originally asked the question about the
            purchase area and if I did not thank everyone for their input I apoligize.

            David Lutton
            Hollidaysburg Pa
            From: ringgold61 <ringgold_redleg@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 2:48 AM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


            > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
            > Hi, Mark,
            > <<SNIP>>
            > > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
            > went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
            > vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
            > that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
            > the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
            > road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
            > artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
            > this is off the top of my head.
            > >
            > > Best wishes,
            > > Curt
            >
            > ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
            > way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
            > monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
            > on the mailboxes . . .
            >
            > How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
            > thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
            > fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
            > able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
            > were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
            > front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
            > in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
            > been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
            > was on that mountain.
            >
            > Mark A. Pflum
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Tom Clemens
            Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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              Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the intersection
              and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.


              David Lutton wrote:

              > Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a
              > question for me concerning the site of Reno's Oak.
              > My impression was that if one was coming down the hill from Reno's Monument
              > the site of the oak tree was on the left at the intersection with Fox's Gap
              > Road? Is this correct??
              >
              > By the way I was the one who originally asked the question about the
              > purchase area and if I did not thank everyone for their input I apoligize.
              >
              > David Lutton
              > Hollidaysburg Pa
              > From: ringgold61 <ringgold_redleg@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 2:48 AM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase
              >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
              > > Hi, Mark,
              > > <<SNIP>>
              > > > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
              > > went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
              > > vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
              > > that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
              > > the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
              > > road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
              > > artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
              > > this is off the top of my head.
              > > >
              > > > Best wishes,
              > > > Curt
              > >
              > > ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
              > > way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
              > > monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
              > > on the mailboxes . . .
              > >
              > > How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
              > > thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
              > > fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
              > > able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
              > > were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
              > > front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
              > > in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
              > > been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
              > > was on that mountain.
              > >
              > > Mark A. Pflum
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • ringgold61
              ... intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood. I ve never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope Jesse haunts that
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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                --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.


                I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.

                Mark A. Pflum
              • Ray Ortensie
                My feelings exactly. I also feel that way about farm land being taken over for new subdivisions. I hope stampedes of cattle run through the halls (or at
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 7, 2002
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                  My feelings exactly. I also feel that way about farm land being taken over
                  for new subdivisions. I hope stampedes of cattle run through the halls (or
                  at least leave a few pies!).

                  Ray
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "ringgold61" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 1:14 AM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


                  > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                  > > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                  > intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
                  >
                  >
                  > I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                  > Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                  > unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.
                  >
                  > Mark A. Pflum
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Tom Clemens
                  Mark, I know what you mean, but it is a good and bad situation. Good, they sold the easements on their large farm in the middle ofthe battlefield, bad, they
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 7, 2002
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                    Mark,
                    I know what you mean, but it is a good and bad situation. Good, they sold
                    the easements on their large farm in the middle ofthe battlefield, bad, they
                    reserved the right to build one house whereve they wanted, guess where. Not
                    the best situation, but not the worst either.
                    Tom

                    ringgold61 wrote:

                    > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                    > > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                    > intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
                    >
                    > I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                    > Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                    > unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.
                    >
                    > Mark A. Pflum
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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