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Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign before 7 Sept.? Where?

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    Greetings, I had a discussion yesterday with a Maryland Campaign expert about when the telegraph lines to Harpers Ferry from DC or other eastern cities/towns
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 19, 2008
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      Greetings,
      I had a discussion yesterday with a Maryland Campaign expert about when
      the telegraph lines to Harpers Ferry from DC or other eastern
      cities/towns were cut. I thought that D. H. Hill would have cut them
      along with the C&O banks and the B&O tracks when he crossed at Cheek's
      Ford on 4 September or when Jackson/Stuart crossed at White's Ford on
      the 5th.

      But were there any commercial or military lines at these points to be
      cut? Did the line(s) instead run some other direction(s) to be relayed
      to DC like to Frederick? Of course if they ran along the B&O tracks,
      then they would have been cut on the 4th.

      If they weren't cut on the 4/5, did HF lose its telegraph to the
      outside world in any direction before the 7th when Wool said in OR,
      vol. 19, pt. I p. 520 they were cut?

      Any thoughts?

      Larry F.
    • Harry Smeltzer
      Here are two questions: If those lines were cut that early, how did Lee know that McClellan was in command of the army at and outside Washington - or did he
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 19, 2008
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        Here are two questions:

        If those lines were cut that early, how did Lee know that McClellan was in command of the army at and outside Washington - or did he know?

        If those lines were cut that early, how did McClellan know that Jackson was at Harper's Ferry instead of Martinsburg as SO 191 said - or did he know?

        Harry

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: eighth_conn_inf
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:49 AM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign before 7 Sept.? Where?


        Greetings,
        I had a discussion yesterday with a Maryland Campaign expert about when
        the telegraph lines to Harpers Ferry from DC or other eastern
        cities/towns were cut. I thought that D. H. Hill would have cut them
        along with the C&O banks and the B&O tracks when he crossed at Cheek's
        Ford on 4 September or when Jackson/Stuart crossed at White's Ford on
        the 5th.

        But were there any commercial or military lines at these points to be
        cut? Did the line(s) instead run some other direction(s) to be relayed
        to DC like to Frederick? Of course if they ran along the B&O tracks,
        then they would have been cut on the 4th.

        If they weren't cut on the 4/5, did HF lose its telegraph to the
        outside world in any direction before the 7th when Wool said in OR,
        vol. 19, pt. I p. 520 they were cut?

        Any thoughts?

        Larry F.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Thomas Clemens
        As late as Sept. 9th Lee gave no indication that he knew McClellan was in command. He mentions Union columns and some commanders,IIRC, but not McClellan. He
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 19, 2008
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          As late as Sept. 9th Lee gave no indication that he knew McClellan was in command. He mentions Union columns and some commanders,IIRC, but not McClellan. He got most of his info from reading newspapers, and perhaps those elusive signalmen that we talked about recently.
          As for McClellan, I think the info about Harpers Ferry came from couriers, not telegraph. Offhand, I think the wires were restored to Frederick by the 13th when he telegraphed to Halleck, Lincoln, etc.


          Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College




          >>> "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> 3/19/2008 11:06 AM >>>

          Here are two questions:

          If those lines were cut that early, how did Lee know that McClellan was in command of the army at and outside Washington - or did he know?

          If those lines were cut that early, how did McClellan know that Jackson was at Harper's Ferry instead of Martinsburg as SO 191 said - or did he know?

          Harry

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: eighth_conn_inf
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:49 AM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign before 7 Sept.? Where?

          Greetings,
          I had a discussion yesterday with a Maryland Campaign expert about when
          the telegraph lines to Harpers Ferry from DC or other eastern
          cities/towns were cut. I thought that D. H. Hill would have cut them
          along with the C&O banks and the B&O tracks when he crossed at Cheek's
          Ford on 4 September or when Jackson/Stuart crossed at White's Ford on
          the 5th.

          But were there any commercial or military lines at these points to be
          cut? Did the line(s) instead run some other direction(s) to be relayed
          to DC like to Frederick? Of course if they ran along the B&O tracks,
          then they would have been cut on the 4th.

          If they weren't cut on the 4/5, did HF lose its telegraph to the
          outside world in any direction before the 7th when Wool said in OR,
          vol. 19, pt. I p. 520 they were cut?

          Any thoughts?

          Larry F.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Harry Smeltzer
          I ve asked this question many times, but have never received an answer that satisfied me. Do we have any documentary proof of if or when McClellan learned
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 19, 2008
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            I've asked this question many times, but have never received an answer that satisfied me. Do we have any documentary proof of if or when McClellan learned that Jackson was not where SO 191 put him?

            Harry
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Thomas Clemens
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:22 AM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign before 7Sept.? Where?


            As late as Sept. 9th Lee gave no indication that he knew McClellan was in command. He mentions Union columns and some commanders,IIRC, but not McClellan. He got most of his info from reading newspapers, and perhaps those elusive signalmen that we talked about recently.
            As for McClellan, I think the info about Harpers Ferry came from couriers, not telegraph. Offhand, I think the wires were restored to Frederick by the 13th when he telegraphed to Halleck, Lincoln, etc.


            Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College




            >>> "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> 3/19/2008 11:06 AM >>>

            Here are two questions:

            If those lines were cut that early, how did Lee know that McClellan was in command of the army at and outside Washington - or did he know?

            If those lines were cut that early, how did McClellan know that Jackson was at Harper's Ferry instead of Martinsburg as SO 191 said - or did he know?

            Harry

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: eighth_conn_inf
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:49 AM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign before 7 Sept.? Where?

            Greetings,
            I had a discussion yesterday with a Maryland Campaign expert about when
            the telegraph lines to Harpers Ferry from DC or other eastern
            cities/towns were cut. I thought that D. H. Hill would have cut them
            along with the C&O banks and the B&O tracks when he crossed at Cheek's
            Ford on 4 September or when Jackson/Stuart crossed at White's Ford on
            the 5th.

            But were there any commercial or military lines at these points to be
            cut? Did the line(s) instead run some other direction(s) to be relayed
            to DC like to Frederick? Of course if they ran along the B&O tracks,
            then they would have been cut on the 4th.

            If they weren't cut on the 4/5, did HF lose its telegraph to the
            outside world in any direction before the 7th when Wool said in OR,
            vol. 19, pt. I p. 520 they were cut?

            Any thoughts?

            Larry F.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Thomas Clemens
            Hmm, that s a stumper. Will try to do some digging tonight. I think the courier sent by Miles that reached Mac conveyed that info, but I don t know if he
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 19, 2008
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              Hmm, that's a stumper. Will try to do some digging tonight. I think the courier sent by Miles that reached Mac conveyed that info, but I don't know if he already knew that or not.


              Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College




              >>> "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> 3/19/2008 11:26 AM >>>

              I've asked this question many times, but have never received an answer that satisfied me. Do we have any documentary proof of if or when McClellan learned that Jackson was not where SO 191 put him?

              Harry
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Thomas Clemens
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:22 AM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign before 7Sept.? Where?

              As late as Sept. 9th Lee gave no indication that he knew McClellan was in command. He mentions Union columns and some commanders,IIRC, but not McClellan. He got most of his info from reading newspapers, and perhaps those elusive signalmen that we talked about recently.
              As for McClellan, I think the info about Harpers Ferry came from couriers, not telegraph. Offhand, I think the wires were restored to Frederick by the 13th when he telegraphed to Halleck, Lincoln, etc.

              Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College

              >>> "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> 3/19/2008 11:06 AM >>>

              Here are two questions:

              If those lines were cut that early, how did Lee know that McClellan was in command of the army at and outside Washington - or did he know?

              If those lines were cut that early, how did McClellan know that Jackson was at Harper's Ferry instead of Martinsburg as SO 191 said - or did he know?

              Harry

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: eighth_conn_inf
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:49 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign before 7 Sept.? Where?

              Greetings,
              I had a discussion yesterday with a Maryland Campaign expert about when
              the telegraph lines to Harpers Ferry from DC or other eastern
              cities/towns were cut. I thought that D. H. Hill would have cut them
              along with the C&O banks and the B&O tracks when he crossed at Cheek's
              Ford on 4 September or when Jackson/Stuart crossed at White's Ford on
              the 5th.

              But were there any commercial or military lines at these points to be
              cut? Did the line(s) instead run some other direction(s) to be relayed
              to DC like to Frederick? Of course if they ran along the B&O tracks,
              then they would have been cut on the 4th.

              If they weren't cut on the 4/5, did HF lose its telegraph to the
              outside world in any direction before the 7th when Wool said in OR,
              vol. 19, pt. I p. 520 they were cut?

              Any thoughts?

              Larry F.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eighth_conn_inf
              Harry, Lincoln told Little Mac on 12 September that Gov. Curtin telegraphed him that Jackson is crossing the Potomac at Williamsport, and probably the whole
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 19, 2008
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                Harry,
                Lincoln told Little Mac on 12 September that Gov. Curtin telegraphed
                him that "Jackson is crossing the Potomac at Williamsport, and
                probably the whole rebel army will be drawn from Maryland." OR, vol.
                19, pt. II, 270.
                Larry

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I've asked this question many times, but have never received an
                answer that satisfied me. Do we have any documentary proof of if or
                when McClellan learned that Jackson was not where SO 191 put him?
                >
                > Harry
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Thomas Clemens
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:22 AM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD
                Campaign before 7Sept.? Where?
                >
                >
                > As late as Sept. 9th Lee gave no indication that he knew
                McClellan was in command. He mentions Union columns and some
                commanders,IIRC, but not McClellan. He got most of his info from
                reading newspapers, and perhaps those elusive signalmen that we
                talked about recently.
                > As for McClellan, I think the info about Harpers Ferry came from
                couriers, not telegraph. Offhand, I think the wires were restored to
                Frederick by the 13th when he telegraphed to Halleck, Lincoln, etc.
                >
                >
                > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                > Professor of History
                > Hagerstown Community College
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >>> "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> 3/19/2008 11:06 AM >>>
                >
                > Here are two questions:
                >
                > If those lines were cut that early, how did Lee know that
                McClellan was in command of the army at and outside Washington - or
                did he know?
                >
                > If those lines were cut that early, how did McClellan know that
                Jackson was at Harper's Ferry instead of Martinsburg as SO 191 said -
                or did he know?
                >
                > Harry
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: eighth_conn_inf
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:49 AM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign
                before 7 Sept.? Where?
                >
                > Greetings,
                > I had a discussion yesterday with a Maryland Campaign expert
                about when
                > the telegraph lines to Harpers Ferry from DC or other eastern
                > cities/towns were cut. I thought that D. H. Hill would have cut
                them
                > along with the C&O banks and the B&O tracks when he crossed at
                Cheek's
                > Ford on 4 September or when Jackson/Stuart crossed at White's
                Ford on
                > the 5th.
                >
                > But were there any commercial or military lines at these points
                to be
                > cut? Did the line(s) instead run some other direction(s) to be
                relayed
                > to DC like to Frederick? Of course if they ran along the B&O
                tracks,
                > then they would have been cut on the 4th.
                >
                > If they weren't cut on the 4/5, did HF lose its telegraph to the
                > outside world in any direction before the 7th when Wool said in
                OR,
                > vol. 19, pt. I p. 520 they were cut?
                >
                > Any thoughts?
                >
                > Larry F.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Harry Smeltzer
                Right, Larry. And of course Halleck was sending all manner of wild reports that the real target was Washington. But I m wondering when and if Mac ever knew
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 19, 2008
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                  Right, Larry. And of course Halleck was sending all manner of wild reports
                  that the real target was Washington.

                  But I'm wondering when and if Mac ever knew that Jackosn was part of the
                  force that was besieging HF, given that SO 191 didn't call for or anticipate
                  that a siege would be necessary, and the Jackson would be at Martinsburg to
                  intercept any Fedrals who headed that way after abandoning HF (which is what
                  Lee was counting on).

                  Harry


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of eighth_conn_inf
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:46 PM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign before
                  7Sept.? Where?



                  Harry,
                  Lincoln told Little Mac on 12 September that Gov. Curtin telegraphed
                  him that "Jackson is crossing the Potomac at Williamsport, and
                  probably the whole rebel army will be drawn from Maryland." OR, vol.
                  19, pt. II, 270.
                  Larry

                  --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I've asked this question many times, but have never received an
                  answer that satisfied me. Do we have any documentary proof of if or
                  when McClellan learned that Jackson was not where SO 191 put him?
                  >
                  > Harry
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Thomas Clemens
                  > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:22 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD
                  Campaign before 7Sept.? Where?
                  >
                  >
                  > As late as Sept. 9th Lee gave no indication that he knew
                  McClellan was in command. He mentions Union columns and some
                  commanders,IIRC, but not McClellan. He got most of his info from
                  reading newspapers, and perhaps those elusive signalmen that we
                  talked about recently.
                  > As for McClellan, I think the info about Harpers Ferry came from
                  couriers, not telegraph. Offhand, I think the wires were restored to
                  Frederick by the 13th when he telegraphed to Halleck, Lincoln, etc.
                  >
                  >
                  > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                  > Professor of History
                  > Hagerstown Community College
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >>> "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> 3/19/2008 11:06 AM >>>
                  >
                  > Here are two questions:
                  >
                  > If those lines were cut that early, how did Lee know that
                  McClellan was in command of the army at and outside Washington - or
                  did he know?
                  >
                  > If those lines were cut that early, how did McClellan know that
                  Jackson was at Harper's Ferry instead of Martinsburg as SO 191 said -
                  or did he know?
                  >
                  > Harry
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: eighth_conn_inf
                  > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:49 AM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Telegraph Lines Cut during MD Campaign
                  before 7 Sept.? Where?
                  >
                  > Greetings,
                  > I had a discussion yesterday with a Maryland Campaign expert
                  about when
                  > the telegraph lines to Harpers Ferry from DC or other eastern
                  > cities/towns were cut. I thought that D. H. Hill would have cut
                  them
                  > along with the C&O banks and the B&O tracks when he crossed at
                  Cheek's
                  > Ford on 4 September or when Jackson/Stuart crossed at White's
                  Ford on
                  > the 5th.
                  >
                  > But were there any commercial or military lines at these points
                  to be
                  > cut? Did the line(s) instead run some other direction(s) to be
                  relayed
                  > to DC like to Frederick? Of course if they ran along the B&O
                  tracks,
                  > then they would have been cut on the 4th.
                  >
                  > If they weren't cut on the 4/5, did HF lose its telegraph to the
                  > outside world in any direction before the 7th when Wool said in
                  OR,
                  > vol. 19, pt. I p. 520 they were cut?
                  >
                  > Any thoughts?
                  >
                  > Larry F.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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