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Re: [TalkAntietam] South Mt. purchase

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  • Bill or Glenna Jo Christen
    ... Kevin, I am disappointed to here of this. I did send a reduced check ($100) CHML and, fortunately, a bigger check ($400) to SHAF on behalf of the Watchdog
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 27, 2001
      "Rawlings, Kevin" wrote:

      > Bill,
      >
      > Sadly I must inform you that George Brigham and CHML are no longer...
      > synonomous due to politics and personal attacks of a very vicious nature.I
      > would send
      > contributions to SHAF and other worthy battlefield preservation organizations
      > until CMHL gets themselves back on track

      Kevin,

      I am disappointed to here of this. I did send a reduced check ($100) CHML and,
      fortunately, a bigger check ($400) to SHAF on behalf of the Watchdog just last
      week. The DOG also supported the Mill Springs, KY and Franklin, TN battlefields
      this year.

      I'll give George a call.

      Bill
    • ringgold61
      ... ground occupied by Cook s 8th Mass. Bty., Durell s (E, Pa. Lt.) and/or Clark s (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox s Gap within 300 meters of
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 3, 2002
        --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
        > David,
        >
        > Without further details, I would hazard a guess that it is the
        ground occupied by Cook's 8th Mass. Bty., Durell's (E, Pa. Lt.)
        and/or Clark's (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox's Gap
        within 300 meters of the Reno Monument. Details of the combat may be
        found in Priest's _Before Antietam_.
        >
        > Curt Johnson


        Curt,

        I'm sure you are aware that Captain Durell's Battery was Independent
        Battery "D", not "E". Knap's Battery was Independent Battery "E."
        It should be noted that at the time of the Battle, Durell's Battery
        was officially designated as the 2nd Independent Pennsylvania
        Battery. They were also unofficially referred to as the Ringgold
        Battery! The "D" designation was not given to the Battery until
        1863. I suppose it's just easier for historians to use the
        designation that they ended their service with.

        The land where these batteries went into action is about 1/2 mile
        down the hill from the Reno Monument towards the former spot of the
        Reno Oak, and on the right side of the road. You can also see it if
        you walk out onto the field across the road from the monument about
        half way to the wood line and look downhill. You can see an open
        area off to the right with a few houses between it and the road. If
        this is the land that was purchased, it is very good news! I was
        just discussing this parcel with Ranger Al Preston of the Maryland
        Parks Dept. (the folks who run the new South Mountain Battlefield
        State Park) a few months ago and he never mentioned that it had been
        saved. We both held the opinion that it should be a priority site
        for preservation. Then again, we're both rather partial to the
        artillery. ;-)

        Mark A. Pflum
        (researcher of Durell's Battery, P.V.)
      • Curt Johnson
        Hi, Mark, Thanks for your comments. I have to tell you, when I sent my initial answer to whoever it was that asked the question (never got a response), I
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 4, 2002
          Hi, Mark,

          Thanks for your comments. I have to tell you, when I sent my initial answer
          to whoever it was that asked the question (never got a response), I checked
          Mike Priest's book for details: therefore, the designation E, Pa. Lt. I
          guess I should've checked my own book (duh!), which gives Independent Bty.
          D. I can confirm your statement that, at the time of the battle, Durell's
          was designated the 2d Indpt. Pa. Bty., having checked my copies of Hunt's
          and Barry's reports and memoranda. I must have adopted the slightly later
          designation for my book, maybe from Cuffel, so thanks for pointing that out.

          If I understand your comments about the location where these folks went into
          battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the vicinity of the
          site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with that site, there was also
          a site further up the hill and closer to the Reno Monument, where there is a
          shelf on the north side of the road (east of Wise's North Field) that was
          occupied by Federal artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was
          wrecked. All this is off the top of my head.

          Best wishes,
          Curt


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "ringgold61" <ringgold_redleg@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:24 AM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


          > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
          > > David,
          > >
          > > Without further details, I would hazard a guess that it is the
          > ground occupied by Cook's 8th Mass. Bty., Durell's (E, Pa. Lt.)
          > and/or Clark's (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox's Gap
          > within 300 meters of the Reno Monument. Details of the combat may be
          > found in Priest's _Before Antietam_.
          > >
          > > Curt Johnson
          >
          >
          > Curt,
          >
          > I'm sure you are aware that Captain Durell's Battery was Independent
          > Battery "D", not "E". Knap's Battery was Independent Battery "E."
          > It should be noted that at the time of the Battle, Durell's Battery
          > was officially designated as the 2nd Independent Pennsylvania
          > Battery. They were also unofficially referred to as the Ringgold
          > Battery! The "D" designation was not given to the Battery until
          > 1863. I suppose it's just easier for historians to use the
          > designation that they ended their service with.
          >
          > The land where these batteries went into action is about 1/2 mile
          > down the hill from the Reno Monument towards the former spot of the
          > Reno Oak, and on the right side of the road. You can also see it if
          > you walk out onto the field across the road from the monument about
          > half way to the wood line and look downhill. You can see an open
          > area off to the right with a few houses between it and the road. If
          > this is the land that was purchased, it is very good news! I was
          > just discussing this parcel with Ranger Al Preston of the Maryland
          > Parks Dept. (the folks who run the new South Mountain Battlefield
          > State Park) a few months ago and he never mentioned that it had been
          > saved. We both held the opinion that it should be a priority site
          > for preservation. Then again, we're both rather partial to the
          > artillery. ;-)
          >
          > Mark A. Pflum
          > (researcher of Durell's Battery, P.V.)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • ringgold61
          ... Hi, Mark, ... went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don t disagree
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 5, 2002
            --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
            Hi, Mark,
            <<SNIP>>
            > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
            went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
            vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
            that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
            the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
            road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
            artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
            this is off the top of my head.
            >
            > Best wishes,
            > Curt

            ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
            way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
            monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
            on the mailboxes . . .

            How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
            thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
            fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
            able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
            were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
            front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
            in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
            been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
            was on that mountain.

            Mark A. Pflum
          • David Lutton
            Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a question for me concerning the site of Reno s Oak. My impression was that if one
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
              Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a
              question for me concerning the site of Reno's Oak.
              My impression was that if one was coming down the hill from Reno's Monument
              the site of the oak tree was on the left at the intersection with Fox's Gap
              Road? Is this correct??

              By the way I was the one who originally asked the question about the
              purchase area and if I did not thank everyone for their input I apoligize.

              David Lutton
              Hollidaysburg Pa
              From: ringgold61 <ringgold_redleg@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 2:48 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


              > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
              > Hi, Mark,
              > <<SNIP>>
              > > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
              > went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
              > vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
              > that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
              > the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
              > road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
              > artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
              > this is off the top of my head.
              > >
              > > Best wishes,
              > > Curt
              >
              > ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
              > way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
              > monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
              > on the mailboxes . . .
              >
              > How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
              > thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
              > fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
              > able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
              > were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
              > front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
              > in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
              > been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
              > was on that mountain.
              >
              > Mark A. Pflum
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Tom Clemens
              Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
                Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the intersection
                and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.


                David Lutton wrote:

                > Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a
                > question for me concerning the site of Reno's Oak.
                > My impression was that if one was coming down the hill from Reno's Monument
                > the site of the oak tree was on the left at the intersection with Fox's Gap
                > Road? Is this correct??
                >
                > By the way I was the one who originally asked the question about the
                > purchase area and if I did not thank everyone for their input I apoligize.
                >
                > David Lutton
                > Hollidaysburg Pa
                > From: ringgold61 <ringgold_redleg@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 2:48 AM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase
                >
                > > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
                > > Hi, Mark,
                > > <<SNIP>>
                > > > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
                > > went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
                > > vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
                > > that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
                > > the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
                > > road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
                > > artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
                > > this is off the top of my head.
                > > >
                > > > Best wishes,
                > > > Curt
                > >
                > > ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
                > > way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
                > > monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
                > > on the mailboxes . . .
                > >
                > > How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
                > > thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
                > > fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
                > > able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
                > > were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
                > > front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
                > > in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
                > > been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
                > > was on that mountain.
                > >
                > > Mark A. Pflum
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • ringgold61
                ... intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood. I ve never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope Jesse haunts that
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
                  --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                  > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                  intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.


                  I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                  Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                  unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.

                  Mark A. Pflum
                • Ray Ortensie
                  My feelings exactly. I also feel that way about farm land being taken over for new subdivisions. I hope stampedes of cattle run through the halls (or at
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 7, 2002
                    My feelings exactly. I also feel that way about farm land being taken over
                    for new subdivisions. I hope stampedes of cattle run through the halls (or
                    at least leave a few pies!).

                    Ray
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "ringgold61" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 1:14 AM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


                    > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                    > > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                    > intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
                    >
                    >
                    > I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                    > Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                    > unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.
                    >
                    > Mark A. Pflum
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • Tom Clemens
                    Mark, I know what you mean, but it is a good and bad situation. Good, they sold the easements on their large farm in the middle ofthe battlefield, bad, they
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 7, 2002
                      Mark,
                      I know what you mean, but it is a good and bad situation. Good, they sold
                      the easements on their large farm in the middle ofthe battlefield, bad, they
                      reserved the right to build one house whereve they wanted, guess where. Not
                      the best situation, but not the worst either.
                      Tom

                      ringgold61 wrote:

                      > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                      > > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                      > intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
                      >
                      > I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                      > Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                      > unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.
                      >
                      > Mark A. Pflum
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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