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RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mt. purchase

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  • Rawlings, Kevin
    Bill, Sadly I must inform you that George Brigham and CHML are no longer synonomous due to politics and personal attacks of a very vicious nature. My own
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 27, 2001
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      Bill,

      Sadly I must inform you that George Brigham and CHML are no longer
      synonomous due to politics and personal attacks of a very vicious nature. My
      own membership in this group will be at an end at the beginning of the New
      Year. The group despite its public face wish to not put much emphasis on
      Civil War and become more involved in the social and political scene of
      Middletown, Maryland. I have been really upset and disgusted at the way the
      original focus and mission statement of this once valuable and important
      group has lost its focus and been passed by as a cutting edge preservation
      group. Bill, call George for a more detailed description on the travesty
      that has transpired within the ranks of CMHL than I feel at liberty to tell
      here and now. And the the purchase of what is known as the Mahaffey property
      happened more than a year or two ago. It didn't happen recently. CMHL just
      hasn't had a newsletter out in more than two years due to problems in the
      group. Don't even ask me about the severe lack of fundraising because of the
      idiocy of the current executive director and his political and social
      agenda. At the risk of sounding full of vitriol against CMHL, I would send
      contributions to SHAF and other worthy battlefield preservation
      organizations until CMHL gets themselves back on track or disbands. CMHL is
      Not Worthy of your time and contributions at this time. Sadly, I must
      confess to being one of the founding members of this organization.

      Enuff said,
      Kevin

      -----Original Message-----






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    • NJ Rebel
      Kevin; I am at a loss to understand why such a respected group could lose its identity and mission. But, I suppose that is one of the dangers of bringing in an
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 27, 2001
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        Kevin;

        I am at a loss to understand why such a respected group could
        lose its identity and mission. But, I suppose that is one of the
        dangers of bringing in an executive director from outside. That
        happened in a Catholic organization in which I once worked.

        So with the CMHL problems, will that mean an expanded effort by
        SHAF to save important sites related to the Antietam campaign but
        not directly part of the Battle of Antietam?

        As a SHAF member I would be happy to support preservation efforts
        related to South Mountain.

        Your humble servant,
        Gerry Mayers
        Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
        Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

        A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

        http://home.earthlink.net/~gerry1952/index.html

        "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
        on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
        Edward Lee


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Rawlings, Kevin" <kevin.rawlings@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 1:43 PM
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mt. purchase


        > Bill,
        >
        > Sadly I must inform you that George Brigham and CHML are no
        longer
        > synonomous due to politics and personal attacks of a very
        vicious nature. My
        > own membership in this group will be at an end at the beginning
        of the New
        > Year. The group despite its public face wish to not put much
        emphasis on
        > Civil War and become more involved in the social and political
        scene of
        > Middletown, Maryland. I have been really upset and disgusted at
        the way the
        > original focus and mission statement of this once valuable and
        important
        > group has lost its focus and been passed by as a cutting edge
        preservation
        > group. Bill, call George for a more detailed description on the
        travesty
        > that has transpired within the ranks of CMHL than I feel at
        liberty to tell
        > here and now. And the the purchase of what is known as the
        Mahaffey property
        > happened more than a year or two ago. It didn't happen
        recently. CMHL just
        > hasn't had a newsletter out in more than two years due to
        problems in the
        > group. Don't even ask me about the severe lack of fundraising
        because of the
        > idiocy of the current executive director and his political and
        social
        > agenda. At the risk of sounding full of vitriol against CMHL, I
        would send
        > contributions to SHAF and other worthy battlefield preservation
        > organizations until CMHL gets themselves back on track or
        disbands. CMHL is
        > Not Worthy of your time and contributions at this time. Sadly,
        I must
        > confess to being one of the founding members of this
        organization.
        >
        > Enuff said,
        > Kevin
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
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        >
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      • Bill or Glenna Jo Christen
        ... Kevin, I am disappointed to here of this. I did send a reduced check ($100) CHML and, fortunately, a bigger check ($400) to SHAF on behalf of the Watchdog
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 27, 2001
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          "Rawlings, Kevin" wrote:

          > Bill,
          >
          > Sadly I must inform you that George Brigham and CHML are no longer...
          > synonomous due to politics and personal attacks of a very vicious nature.I
          > would send
          > contributions to SHAF and other worthy battlefield preservation organizations
          > until CMHL gets themselves back on track

          Kevin,

          I am disappointed to here of this. I did send a reduced check ($100) CHML and,
          fortunately, a bigger check ($400) to SHAF on behalf of the Watchdog just last
          week. The DOG also supported the Mill Springs, KY and Franklin, TN battlefields
          this year.

          I'll give George a call.

          Bill
        • ringgold61
          ... ground occupied by Cook s 8th Mass. Bty., Durell s (E, Pa. Lt.) and/or Clark s (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox s Gap within 300 meters of
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 3, 2002
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            --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
            > David,
            >
            > Without further details, I would hazard a guess that it is the
            ground occupied by Cook's 8th Mass. Bty., Durell's (E, Pa. Lt.)
            and/or Clark's (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox's Gap
            within 300 meters of the Reno Monument. Details of the combat may be
            found in Priest's _Before Antietam_.
            >
            > Curt Johnson


            Curt,

            I'm sure you are aware that Captain Durell's Battery was Independent
            Battery "D", not "E". Knap's Battery was Independent Battery "E."
            It should be noted that at the time of the Battle, Durell's Battery
            was officially designated as the 2nd Independent Pennsylvania
            Battery. They were also unofficially referred to as the Ringgold
            Battery! The "D" designation was not given to the Battery until
            1863. I suppose it's just easier for historians to use the
            designation that they ended their service with.

            The land where these batteries went into action is about 1/2 mile
            down the hill from the Reno Monument towards the former spot of the
            Reno Oak, and on the right side of the road. You can also see it if
            you walk out onto the field across the road from the monument about
            half way to the wood line and look downhill. You can see an open
            area off to the right with a few houses between it and the road. If
            this is the land that was purchased, it is very good news! I was
            just discussing this parcel with Ranger Al Preston of the Maryland
            Parks Dept. (the folks who run the new South Mountain Battlefield
            State Park) a few months ago and he never mentioned that it had been
            saved. We both held the opinion that it should be a priority site
            for preservation. Then again, we're both rather partial to the
            artillery. ;-)

            Mark A. Pflum
            (researcher of Durell's Battery, P.V.)
          • Curt Johnson
            Hi, Mark, Thanks for your comments. I have to tell you, when I sent my initial answer to whoever it was that asked the question (never got a response), I
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 4, 2002
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              Hi, Mark,

              Thanks for your comments. I have to tell you, when I sent my initial answer
              to whoever it was that asked the question (never got a response), I checked
              Mike Priest's book for details: therefore, the designation E, Pa. Lt. I
              guess I should've checked my own book (duh!), which gives Independent Bty.
              D. I can confirm your statement that, at the time of the battle, Durell's
              was designated the 2d Indpt. Pa. Bty., having checked my copies of Hunt's
              and Barry's reports and memoranda. I must have adopted the slightly later
              designation for my book, maybe from Cuffel, so thanks for pointing that out.

              If I understand your comments about the location where these folks went into
              battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the vicinity of the
              site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with that site, there was also
              a site further up the hill and closer to the Reno Monument, where there is a
              shelf on the north side of the road (east of Wise's North Field) that was
              occupied by Federal artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was
              wrecked. All this is off the top of my head.

              Best wishes,
              Curt


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "ringgold61" <ringgold_redleg@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:24 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


              > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
              > > David,
              > >
              > > Without further details, I would hazard a guess that it is the
              > ground occupied by Cook's 8th Mass. Bty., Durell's (E, Pa. Lt.)
              > and/or Clark's (E, 4th US), all of which were in action at Fox's Gap
              > within 300 meters of the Reno Monument. Details of the combat may be
              > found in Priest's _Before Antietam_.
              > >
              > > Curt Johnson
              >
              >
              > Curt,
              >
              > I'm sure you are aware that Captain Durell's Battery was Independent
              > Battery "D", not "E". Knap's Battery was Independent Battery "E."
              > It should be noted that at the time of the Battle, Durell's Battery
              > was officially designated as the 2nd Independent Pennsylvania
              > Battery. They were also unofficially referred to as the Ringgold
              > Battery! The "D" designation was not given to the Battery until
              > 1863. I suppose it's just easier for historians to use the
              > designation that they ended their service with.
              >
              > The land where these batteries went into action is about 1/2 mile
              > down the hill from the Reno Monument towards the former spot of the
              > Reno Oak, and on the right side of the road. You can also see it if
              > you walk out onto the field across the road from the monument about
              > half way to the wood line and look downhill. You can see an open
              > area off to the right with a few houses between it and the road. If
              > this is the land that was purchased, it is very good news! I was
              > just discussing this parcel with Ranger Al Preston of the Maryland
              > Parks Dept. (the folks who run the new South Mountain Battlefield
              > State Park) a few months ago and he never mentioned that it had been
              > saved. We both held the opinion that it should be a priority site
              > for preservation. Then again, we're both rather partial to the
              > artillery. ;-)
              >
              > Mark A. Pflum
              > (researcher of Durell's Battery, P.V.)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • ringgold61
              ... Hi, Mark, ... went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don t disagree
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 5, 2002
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                --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
                Hi, Mark,
                <<SNIP>>
                > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
                went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
                vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
                that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
                the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
                road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
                artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
                this is off the top of my head.
                >
                > Best wishes,
                > Curt

                ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
                way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
                monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
                on the mailboxes . . .

                How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
                thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
                fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
                able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
                were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
                front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
                in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
                been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
                was on that mountain.

                Mark A. Pflum
              • David Lutton
                Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a question for me concerning the site of Reno s Oak. My impression was that if one
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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                  Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a
                  question for me concerning the site of Reno's Oak.
                  My impression was that if one was coming down the hill from Reno's Monument
                  the site of the oak tree was on the left at the intersection with Fox's Gap
                  Road? Is this correct??

                  By the way I was the one who originally asked the question about the
                  purchase area and if I did not thank everyone for their input I apoligize.

                  David Lutton
                  Hollidaysburg Pa
                  From: ringgold61 <ringgold_redleg@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 2:48 AM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


                  > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
                  > Hi, Mark,
                  > <<SNIP>>
                  > > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
                  > went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
                  > vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
                  > that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
                  > the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
                  > road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
                  > artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
                  > this is off the top of my head.
                  > >
                  > > Best wishes,
                  > > Curt
                  >
                  > ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
                  > way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
                  > monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
                  > on the mailboxes . . .
                  >
                  > How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
                  > thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
                  > fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
                  > able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
                  > were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
                  > front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
                  > in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
                  > been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
                  > was on that mountain.
                  >
                  > Mark A. Pflum
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Tom Clemens
                  Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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                    Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the intersection
                    and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.


                    David Lutton wrote:

                    > Reading the recent posts concerning the South Mountain purchase has raised a
                    > question for me concerning the site of Reno's Oak.
                    > My impression was that if one was coming down the hill from Reno's Monument
                    > the site of the oak tree was on the left at the intersection with Fox's Gap
                    > Road? Is this correct??
                    >
                    > By the way I was the one who originally asked the question about the
                    > purchase area and if I did not thank everyone for their input I apoligize.
                    >
                    > David Lutton
                    > Hollidaysburg Pa
                    > From: ringgold61 <ringgold_redleg@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 2:48 AM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase
                    >
                    > > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Curt Johnson" <ccj@w...> wrote:
                    > > Hi, Mark,
                    > > <<SNIP>>
                    > > > If I understand your comments about the location where these folks
                    > > went into battery, you are talking about the yards and fields in the
                    > > vicinity of the site of the Reno Oak. While I don't disagree with
                    > > that site, there was also a site further up the hill and closer to
                    > > the Reno Monument, where there is a shelf on the north side of the
                    > > road (east of Wise's North Field) that was occupied by Federal
                    > > artillery. It was there that (I think) Cook's Bty. was wrecked. All
                    > > this is off the top of my head.
                    > > >
                    > > > Best wishes,
                    > > > Curt
                    > >
                    > > ~~~ Your spot is the one I was referring to. It's only about half-
                    > > way down the hill (on the right side, looking downhill) between the
                    > > monument and the former Oak site. I wish I could remember the name
                    > > on the mailboxes . . .
                    > >
                    > > How badly were Cook's boys treated? From Durell's unit history, I
                    > > thought they had simply been driven from their guns by a scalding
                    > > fire from close Confederate infantry. The Massachusetts men were
                    > > able to retire their guns from the field while the Pennsylvanians
                    > > were serving their pieces. The guns of the two batteries were in
                    > > front along the same line if I recall correctly. Cook's Battery was
                    > > in action three days later with their old guns, so they couldn't have
                    > > been too roughly handled. I've often wondered what their loss in men
                    > > was on that mountain.
                    > >
                    > > Mark A. Pflum
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • ringgold61
                    ... intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood. I ve never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope Jesse haunts that
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 6, 2002
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                      --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                      > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                      intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.


                      I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                      Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                      unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.

                      Mark A. Pflum
                    • Ray Ortensie
                      My feelings exactly. I also feel that way about farm land being taken over for new subdivisions. I hope stampedes of cattle run through the halls (or at
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 7, 2002
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                        My feelings exactly. I also feel that way about farm land being taken over
                        for new subdivisions. I hope stampedes of cattle run through the halls (or
                        at least leave a few pies!).

                        Ray
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "ringgold61" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 1:14 AM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: South Mt. purchase


                        > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                        > > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                        > intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
                        >
                        >
                        > I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                        > Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                        > unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.
                        >
                        > Mark A. Pflum
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • Tom Clemens
                        Mark, I know what you mean, but it is a good and bad situation. Good, they sold the easements on their large farm in the middle ofthe battlefield, bad, they
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 7, 2002
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                          Mark,
                          I know what you mean, but it is a good and bad situation. Good, they sold
                          the easements on their large farm in the middle ofthe battlefield, bad, they
                          reserved the right to build one house whereve they wanted, guess where. Not
                          the best situation, but not the worst either.
                          Tom

                          ringgold61 wrote:

                          > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Tom Clemens <clemens@c...> wrote:
                          > > Yes, that is correct. A new house has just been constructed at the
                          > intersection and the driveway is almost exactly where the oak stood.
                          >
                          > I've never been one to wish ill will upon anyone, but I sure hope
                          > Jesse haunts that new house something FIERCE! At least a few
                          > unexplained, late night cannon shots should be in order.
                          >
                          > Mark A. Pflum
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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