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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Muster dates

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  • G E Mayers
    Dear Dean, I have that volume also. You might wish to check out the excellent essay on the Sunken Road fighting as many of the green units in the Second Corps
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 31, 2008
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      Dear Dean,

      I have that volume also. You might wish to check out the
      excellent essay on the Sunken Road fighting as many of the green
      units in the Second Corps wound up involved in that nasty piece
      of work....

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "dean_essig" <dean_essig@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:38 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Muster dates


      17th Michigan... found it!

      Gallgher _The Antietam Campaign_ pg 156

      "The 17th commenced forming in late May 1862 and spent the summer
      drilling under Col.
      James E. Pittman, the state paymaster. Although not mustered into
      Federal service until
      August 21, the Michiganders should not be considered true
      rookies. Pittman's drill and
      discipline left the regiment in a "very credible condition." well
      prepared for the action on
      September 14 that highlighted the difference training made in
      combat effectiveness."

      The chapter "Volunteers of '62" was where I got a number of the
      regiments included in my
      list of "green" regiments. I'll go through it again and see if
      any of the mistaken ones are
      mentioned.
    • dean_essig
      Yes, and the section on logistics was very helpful as well!
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 1 6:00 AM
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        Yes, and the section on logistics was very helpful as well!

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Dean,
        >
        > I have that volume also. You might wish to check out the
        > excellent essay on the Sunken Road fighting as many of the green
        > units in the Second Corps wound up involved in that nasty piece
        > of work....
      • Bill and Glenna Jo Christen
        Posted by: dean_essig dean_essig@yahoo.com dean_essig Gallagher cites Ida V. Brown Michigan in the Civil War as the source for the drilling information. I
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 2 8:26 AM
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          Posted by: "dean_essig" dean_essig@... dean_essig

          Gallagher cites Ida V. Brown Michigan in the Civil War as the source for the drilling
          information.

          I take it you are arguing that they should fall into my "green" category (along with the
          other limited service time regiments)? I rather wish they had more service at Antietam to
          add to their good performance at South Mountain to make the evaluation clearer.
          Dean,

          Brown's Michigan Men in the Civil War was first published in 1959 as a bulletin of the University of Michigan's Historical Collections. Miss Brown was the archivist. It was updated again in 1977. It is a descriptive index to over 500 collections of letters, diaries or other material related to Michigan during the Civil War, which can be found at UM's Bentley Library in Ann Arbor. There are over thirty collections that pertain to the Seventeenth Michigan. I have read them all and would have to dig through my files to find out the exact quote, but I do not recall one off hand. I am, as it happens, preparing a talk for later this summer on the first six months in the life of the regiment and the fighting at South Mountain.

          There is a passage in Michigan in the War compiled by Michigan Adjutant General. John Robertson in 1882:
          "The organization of the regiment commenced under the direction of Colonel James E. Pitman, then State Paymaster, whose excellent drill and discipline enabled the regiment to leave for the front in a very creditable condition" [1]

          [1] John Robertson, comp., Michigan in the War (Lansing: State of Michigan, 1882), 374.
          By the end of July 1862, only 500 recruits for the regiment had arrived at the Detroit Barracks. Colonel Withington did not take command until 11 August. Uniforms and equipment were not issued until four days before the regiment left Detroit on 27 August 1862. There is no record that any target practice occurred before the regiment left for Washington, D.C. or during the week the regiment was at Fort Baker before being ordered to join the Ninth Army Corps. They were cutting wood.

          I would agree that the regiment was schooled in military drill, but it had little experience with their weapons (mostly Lorenz rifle-muskets).

          The score card:
          South Mountain: 27 killed, 114 wounded (Company A was detached and remained in Frederick--returned to the regiment by 16 September). The regiment was steady under fire, made a charge in the afternoon, helping to rout Drayton South Carolina Brigade.
          Antietam: 18 killed, 87 wounded . The regiment was steady under fire at the Sherrick farm and then participated in a charge towards Sharpsburg near the Rohrbach Mill (below and south of the National Cemetery today) late in the afternoon. There is an unconfirmed story that a Confederate regiment was waving what appeared to be the US National Colors and the Seventeenth's movements was not a charge but a plain advance.

          I estimate the strength of the unit was around 750 on 14 September (Company A detached, sick left behind and a few stragglers and deserters). The leadership (field & staff and company officers) was a factor in overcoming the lack of experience. Ironically, at Spotsylvania (May 1864), this same battle-tested regiment (of no more than 250 men at the time), would suffer a severe loss and have its colors captured along with nearly half of it soldiers. Here too, the leadership would play a roll (Withington had resigned in March 1863 and the colonel in May 1864, Constance Luce did not have the same leadership rating or approval of the men. The lieutenant colonel, Frederick Swift (a captain at South Mountain and Antietam), under Luce was later awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions at Campbell's Station, Tennessee. But of course this was beyond the timeframe of your game.

          Bill

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dean_essig
          Bill, That settles it with some authority, especially the material about the lack of training their arms before the battle. Good unit, not yet trained. FWIW,
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 2 9:01 AM
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            Bill,

            That settles it with some authority, especially the material about the lack of training their
            arms before the battle. Good unit, not yet trained.

            FWIW, the park's files give the regiment 525 men at Antietam, the marker at South
            Mountain says they had 500 there (before the losses).

            Dean

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Bill and Glenna Jo Christen" <gwjchris@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Posted by: "dean_essig" dean_essig@... dean_essig
            >
            > Gallagher cites Ida V. Brown Michigan in the Civil War as the source for the drilling
            > information.
            >
            > I take it you are arguing that they should fall into my "green" category (along with the
            > other limited service time regiments)? I rather wish they had more service at Antietam to
            > add to their good performance at South Mountain to make the evaluation clearer.
            > Dean,
            >
            > Brown's Michigan Men in the Civil War was first published in 1959 as a bulletin of the
            University of Michigan's Historical Collections. Miss Brown was the archivist. It was
            updated again in 1977. It is a descriptive index to over 500 collections of letters, diaries
            or other material related to Michigan during the Civil War, which can be found at UM's
            Bentley Library in Ann Arbor. There are over thirty collections that pertain to the
            Seventeenth Michigan. I have read them all and would have to dig through my files to find
            out the exact quote, but I do not recall one off hand. I am, as it happens, preparing a talk
            for later this summer on the first six months in the life of the regiment and the fighting at
            South Mountain.
            >
            > There is a passage in Michigan in the War compiled by Michigan Adjutant General. John
            Robertson in 1882:
            > "The organization of the regiment commenced under the direction of Colonel James E.
            Pitman, then State Paymaster, whose excellent drill and discipline enabled the regiment to
            leave for the front in a very creditable condition" [1]
            >
            > [1] John Robertson, comp., Michigan in the War (Lansing: State of Michigan, 1882), 374.
            > By the end of July 1862, only 500 recruits for the regiment had arrived at the Detroit
            Barracks. Colonel Withington did not take command until 11 August. Uniforms and
            equipment were not issued until four days before the regiment left Detroit on 27 August
            1862. There is no record that any target practice occurred before the regiment left for
            Washington, D.C. or during the week the regiment was at Fort Baker before being ordered
            to join the Ninth Army Corps. They were cutting wood.
            >
            > I would agree that the regiment was schooled in military drill, but it had little
            experience with their weapons (mostly Lorenz rifle-muskets).
            >
            > The score card:
            > South Mountain: 27 killed, 114 wounded (Company A was detached and remained in
            Frederick--returned to the regiment by 16 September). The regiment was steady under
            fire, made a charge in the afternoon, helping to rout Drayton South Carolina Brigade.
            > Antietam: 18 killed, 87 wounded . The regiment was steady under fire at the Sherrick
            farm and then participated in a charge towards Sharpsburg near the Rohrbach Mill (below
            and south of the National Cemetery today) late in the afternoon. There is an unconfirmed
            story that a Confederate regiment was waving what appeared to be the US National Colors
            and the Seventeenth's movements was not a charge but a plain advance.
            >
            > I estimate the strength of the unit was around 750 on 14 September (Company A
            detached, sick left behind and a few stragglers and deserters). The leadership (field & staff
            and company officers) was a factor in overcoming the lack of experience. Ironically, at
            Spotsylvania (May 1864), this same battle-tested regiment (of no more than 250 men at
            the time), would suffer a severe loss and have its colors captured along with nearly half of
            it soldiers. Here too, the leadership would play a roll (Withington had resigned in March
            1863 and the colonel in May 1864, Constance Luce did not have the same leadership
            rating or approval of the men. The lieutenant colonel, Frederick Swift (a captain at South
            Mountain and Antietam), under Luce was later awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions
            at Campbell's Station, Tennessee. But of course this was beyond the timeframe of your
            game.
            >
            > Bill
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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