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Re: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Yes the dates of destruction of bridges, Johnson s orders, are correct. Hagerstown Pike and Boonsboro Shepherdstown Pike were private toll roads. Although
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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      Yes the dates of destruction of bridges, Johnson's orders, are correct. Hagerstown Pike and Boonsboro Shepherdstown Pike were private toll roads. Although perhaps not of the quality of the National Road, both were nominally macademized.
      There are several accounts of shoeless Confederates being weeded out before crossing the Potomac. Supposedly they were sent to Winchester to get supplied with shoes and then meet Lee in Hagerstown area. Therfore, most rebs in the MD campaign had shoes, or at least were supposed to have shoes. I have a newspaper account from a Lt. writing his hometown paper about guys left in VA for lack of shoes, or other physical ailments.


      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 01/16/08 4:46 PM >>>
      If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to hear them
      but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
      references pls let me know.

      Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were everywhere
      but he does not say which roads were and to what length or discuss the
      quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the National Road
      was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading out of
      D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question has to do
      with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and marching
      around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on both sides
      but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor for the
      Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very minor
      concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg from
      Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?

      I've read that the bridges at Point of Rocks, Shepherdstown, and
      Brunswick were all burned at Jackson's orders (Johnston's?) on 9 June
      1861--I have 2 references (Robertson: "Stonewall" and
      Turner "Railroads" showing the RR bridge at HF was blown up on 14 June.
      Are these dates correct?

      The RR bridge at HF was the only bridge across either river in 1861?
      But what about the Winchester and Potomac RR; did it cross the
      Shenendoah at HF or how did it connect with the B&O? I understand that
      during the Maryland Campaign the pontoon bridge above the burned B&O RR
      bridge was the only bridge still intact?

      Thank you,
      Larry F.
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Thanks Tom, Any idea about the RR bridge for the Winchester Potomac? Was there a RR bridge that carried the WP across the Shenandoah or Potomac near HF? I
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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        Thanks Tom,

        Any idea about the RR bridge for the Winchester Potomac? Was there a
        RR bridge that carried the WP across the Shenandoah or Potomac near
        HF?

        I wonder if the Macadamized road also had a bad effort upon horses.
        Of course they had shoes but I guess they would last the month that
        they spend in Maryland regardless. I read in Carman that the
        Confederates tried to weed out weaker horses before entering
        Maryland; I also read that some Confederates threw away their shoes
        so they could stay in Virginia.

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Yes the dates of destruction of bridges, Johnson's orders, are
        correct. Hagerstown Pike and Boonsboro Shepherdstown Pike were
        private toll roads. Although perhaps not of the quality of the
        National Road, both were nominally macademized.
        > There are several accounts of shoeless Confederates being weeded
        out before crossing the Potomac. Supposedly they were sent to
        Winchester to get supplied with shoes and then meet Lee in Hagerstown
        area. Therfore, most rebs in the MD campaign had shoes, or at least
        were supposed to have shoes. I have a newspaper account from a Lt.
        writing his hometown paper about guys left in VA for lack of shoes,
        or other physical ailments.
        >
        >
        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        > Professor of History
        > Hagerstown Community College
        >
        >
        > >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 01/16/08 4:46 PM >>>
        > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to hear
        them
        > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
        > references pls let me know.
        >
        > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
        everywhere
        > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or discuss
        the
        > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the National
        Road
        > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading out of
        > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question has
        to do
        > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
        marching
        > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on both
        sides
        > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor for
        the
        > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
        minor
        > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
        from
        > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
        >
        > I've read that the bridges at Point of Rocks, Shepherdstown, and
        > Brunswick were all burned at Jackson's orders (Johnston's?) on 9
        June
        > 1861--I have 2 references (Robertson: "Stonewall" and
        > Turner "Railroads" showing the RR bridge at HF was blown up on 14
        June.
        > Are these dates correct?
        >
        > The RR bridge at HF was the only bridge across either river in
        1861?
        > But what about the Winchester and Potomac RR; did it cross the
        > Shenendoah at HF or how did it connect with the B&O? I understand
        that
        > during the Maryland Campaign the pontoon bridge above the burned
        B&O RR
        > bridge was the only bridge still intact?
        >
        > Thank you,
        > Larry F.
        >
      • eighth_conn_inf
        Back then running shoes supplied little support anyway IIRC. In recent years, the great variety of shoes makes it easy. Now I run so slow and short that
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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          Back then "running" shoes supplied little support anyway IIRC. In
          recent years, the great variety of shoes makes it easy. Now I run so
          slow and short that whatever Costco has on sale is good enough.

          My guess is that CW Macadamized roads unless they were well
          maintained probably had more dirt than crushed stone on the roadbed.

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Back in the 70's, when a different version of me ran cross-country,
          we would
          > occasionally run on the blacktop roads barefoot to toughen up our
          feet.
          > We'd also spray the soles of our feet with something called "Tuf
          Skin" - I
          > don't think it actually made your skin tough, but we thought it did.
          > Everyone wanted to be Abebe Bikila.
          >
          > Yep, I imagine macadam (not nearly as smooth as blacktop, and less
          stable)
          > would wreak havoc on bare feet, no matter how tough.
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of eighth_conn_inf
          > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:20 PM
          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
          >
          >
          >
          > Thank you Gerry and Harry--fortunately for me I have both. I see
          > references about straggling and bare feet but nothing specific yet
          > about the Macadamized turnpikes, but Carman has a couple. Just
          makes
          > sense though that bare feet walking on crushed stone does not work
          no
          > matter how tough those feet may be, IMO.
          >
          > Reminds me of my Conn. days when a fellow runner, Dr. Charlie
          > Robinson, would run road races in bare feet! He was about 25 years
          > older than I and always beat me--I started catching up when he
          > reached his 70's. Of course his feet were toughened before he did
          > this consistently and he did wear socks in the winter. I assume he
          > had good biomechanics: no flat feet, no bunions, etc. Still, I
          always
          > marveled at him. BTW, his doctorate was reportedly in psychology,
          > figures.
          >
          > Larry F.
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > For those who may be confused, there are two collections, one
          from
          > Kent State and one from UNC. They are two different collections of
          > Gallagher edited essays on the Maryland Campaign.
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: G E Mayers
          > > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
          yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:08 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
          > >
          > >
          > > Dear Larry,
          > >
          > > The Gallagher book "Antietam" is the one I was referring to.
          > >
          > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          > >
          > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
          > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:02 PM
          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
          > >
          > > Thanks Gerry, I will check out that book and his other book of
          > > essays, "Antietam."
          > >
          > > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Dear Larry;
          > > >
          > > > To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely
          > > > macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it
          > > > led right into Sharpsburg, I would doubt it.
          > > >
          > > > The Hagerstown Turnpike also might have been macadamized but
          > > > again might not.
          > > >
          > > > At that point in the war, Southern footsoles were not as tough
          > > > as
          > > > they would be about a year later. Straggling due to the road
          > > > surfaces was a major problem during the campaign.
          > > >
          > > > Gary Gallaher's editing of the volume titled "The Antietam
          > > > Campaign" has several good essays in it that might be helpful.
          > > >
          > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          > > >
          > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
          > > > from
          > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
          > > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
          > yahoogroups.com>
          > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:46 PM
          > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to
          > > > hear
          > > > them
          > > > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
          > > > references pls let me know.
          > > >
          > > > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
          > > > everywhere
          > > > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or
          > > > discuss the
          > > > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the
          > > > National
          > > > Road
          > > > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading
          > > > out
          > > > of
          > > > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question
          > > > has
          > > > to do
          > > > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
          > > > marching
          > > > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on
          > > > both
          > > > sides
          > > > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor
          > > > for
          > > > the
          > > > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
          > > > minor
          > > > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
          > > > from
          > > > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
          > > >
          > > > <snip>
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Thomas Clemens
          Larry, Only one bridge crossed the river at HF. It carried the B&O RR across the river as well as foot traffic. On the VA shore a station lay between the B&O
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 17, 2008
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            Larry,
            Only one bridge crossed the river at HF. It carried the B&O RR across the river as well as foot traffic. On the VA shore a station lay between the B&O which curved to the right and went west, and the Winchester & Potomac which went straight ahead. Although the station is gone the same split in the tracks exists today.


            Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Thanks Tom--that clears that up for me. ... across the river as well as foot traffic. On the VA shore a station lay between the B&O which curved to the right
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 17, 2008
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              Thanks Tom--that clears that up for me.

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Larry,
              > Only one bridge crossed the river at HF. It carried the B&O RR
              across the river as well as foot traffic. On the VA shore a station
              lay between the B&O which curved to the right and went west, and the
              Winchester & Potomac which went straight ahead. Although the station
              is gone the same split in the tracks exists today.
              >
              >
              > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
              > Professor of History
              > Hagerstown Community College
              >
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