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Re: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.

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  • G E Mayers
    Dear Larry; To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it led right into
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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      Dear Larry;

      To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely
      macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it
      led right into Sharpsburg, I would doubt it.

      The Hagerstown Turnpike also might have been macadamized but
      again might not.

      At that point in the war, Southern footsoles were not as tough as
      they would be about a year later. Straggling due to the road
      surfaces was a major problem during the campaign.

      Gary Gallaher's editing of the volume titled "The Antietam
      Campaign" has several good essays in it that might be helpful.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:46 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.


      If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to hear
      them
      but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
      references pls let me know.

      Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
      everywhere
      but he does not say which roads were and to what length or
      discuss the
      quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the National
      Road
      was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading out
      of
      D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question has
      to do
      with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
      marching
      around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on both
      sides
      but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor for
      the
      Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
      minor
      concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
      from
      Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?

      <snip>
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Thanks Gerry, I will check out that book and his other book of essays, Antietam.
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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        Thanks Gerry, I will check out that book and his other book of
        essays, "Antietam."

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Dear Larry;
        >
        > To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely
        > macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it
        > led right into Sharpsburg, I would doubt it.
        >
        > The Hagerstown Turnpike also might have been macadamized but
        > again might not.
        >
        > At that point in the war, Southern footsoles were not as tough as
        > they would be about a year later. Straggling due to the road
        > surfaces was a major problem during the campaign.
        >
        > Gary Gallaher's editing of the volume titled "The Antietam
        > Campaign" has several good essays in it that might be helpful.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:46 PM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
        >
        >
        > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to hear
        > them
        > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
        > references pls let me know.
        >
        > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
        > everywhere
        > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or
        > discuss the
        > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the National
        > Road
        > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading out
        > of
        > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question has
        > to do
        > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
        > marching
        > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on both
        > sides
        > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor for
        > the
        > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
        > minor
        > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
        > from
        > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
        >
        > <snip>
        >
      • G E Mayers
        Dear Larry, The Gallagher book Antietam is the one I was referring to. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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          Dear Larry,

          The Gallagher book "Antietam" is the one I was referring to.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:02 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.


          Thanks Gerry, I will check out that book and his other book of
          essays, "Antietam."

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Dear Larry;
          >
          > To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely
          > macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it
          > led right into Sharpsburg, I would doubt it.
          >
          > The Hagerstown Turnpike also might have been macadamized but
          > again might not.
          >
          > At that point in the war, Southern footsoles were not as tough
          > as
          > they would be about a year later. Straggling due to the road
          > surfaces was a major problem during the campaign.
          >
          > Gary Gallaher's editing of the volume titled "The Antietam
          > Campaign" has several good essays in it that might be helpful.
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
          > from
          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:46 PM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
          >
          >
          > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to
          > hear
          > them
          > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
          > references pls let me know.
          >
          > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
          > everywhere
          > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or
          > discuss the
          > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the
          > National
          > Road
          > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading
          > out
          > of
          > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question
          > has
          > to do
          > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
          > marching
          > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on
          > both
          > sides
          > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor
          > for
          > the
          > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
          > minor
          > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
          > from
          > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
          >
          > <snip>
          >
        • Harry Smeltzer
          For those who may be confused, there are two collections, one from Kent State and one from UNC. They are two different collections of Gallagher edited essays
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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            For those who may be confused, there are two collections, one from Kent State and one from UNC. They are two different collections of Gallagher edited essays on the Maryland Campaign.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: G E Mayers
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:08 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.


            Dear Larry,

            The Gallagher book "Antietam" is the one I was referring to.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:02 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.

            Thanks Gerry, I will check out that book and his other book of
            essays, "Antietam."

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Dear Larry;
            >
            > To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely
            > macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it
            > led right into Sharpsburg, I would doubt it.
            >
            > The Hagerstown Turnpike also might have been macadamized but
            > again might not.
            >
            > At that point in the war, Southern footsoles were not as tough
            > as
            > they would be about a year later. Straggling due to the road
            > surfaces was a major problem during the campaign.
            >
            > Gary Gallaher's editing of the volume titled "The Antietam
            > Campaign" has several good essays in it that might be helpful.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:46 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
            >
            >
            > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to
            > hear
            > them
            > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
            > references pls let me know.
            >
            > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
            > everywhere
            > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or
            > discuss the
            > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the
            > National
            > Road
            > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading
            > out
            > of
            > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question
            > has
            > to do
            > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
            > marching
            > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on
            > both
            > sides
            > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor
            > for
            > the
            > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
            > minor
            > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
            > from
            > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
            >
            > <snip>
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • eighth_conn_inf
            Thank you Gerry and Harry--fortunately for me I have both. I see references about straggling and bare feet but nothing specific yet about the Macadamized
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Thank you Gerry and Harry--fortunately for me I have both. I see
              references about straggling and bare feet but nothing specific yet
              about the Macadamized turnpikes, but Carman has a couple. Just makes
              sense though that bare feet walking on crushed stone does not work no
              matter how tough those feet may be, IMO.

              Reminds me of my Conn. days when a fellow runner, Dr. Charlie
              Robinson, would run road races in bare feet! He was about 25 years
              older than I and always beat me--I started catching up when he
              reached his 70's. Of course his feet were toughened before he did
              this consistently and he did wear socks in the winter. I assume he
              had good biomechanics: no flat feet, no bunions, etc. Still, I always
              marveled at him. BTW, his doctorate was reportedly in psychology,
              figures.

              Larry F.

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > For those who may be confused, there are two collections, one from
              Kent State and one from UNC. They are two different collections of
              Gallagher edited essays on the Maryland Campaign.
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: G E Mayers
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:08 PM
              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
              >
              >
              > Dear Larry,
              >
              > The Gallagher book "Antietam" is the one I was referring to.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:02 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
              >
              > Thanks Gerry, I will check out that book and his other book of
              > essays, "Antietam."
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Larry;
              > >
              > > To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely
              > > macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it
              > > led right into Sharpsburg, I would doubt it.
              > >
              > > The Hagerstown Turnpike also might have been macadamized but
              > > again might not.
              > >
              > > At that point in the war, Southern footsoles were not as tough
              > > as
              > > they would be about a year later. Straggling due to the road
              > > surfaces was a major problem during the campaign.
              > >
              > > Gary Gallaher's editing of the volume titled "The Antietam
              > > Campaign" has several good essays in it that might be helpful.
              > >
              > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              > >
              > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
              > > from
              > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
              > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:46 PM
              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
              > >
              > >
              > > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to
              > > hear
              > > them
              > > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
              > > references pls let me know.
              > >
              > > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
              > > everywhere
              > > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or
              > > discuss the
              > > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the
              > > National
              > > Road
              > > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading
              > > out
              > > of
              > > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question
              > > has
              > > to do
              > > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
              > > marching
              > > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on
              > > both
              > > sides
              > > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor
              > > for
              > > the
              > > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
              > > minor
              > > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
              > > from
              > > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
              > >
              > > <snip>
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Harry Smeltzer
              Back in the 70 s, when a different version of me ran cross-country, we would occasionally run on the blacktop roads barefoot to toughen up our feet. We d also
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Back in the 70's, when a different version of me ran cross-country, we would
                occasionally run on the blacktop roads barefoot to toughen up our feet.
                We'd also spray the soles of our feet with something called "Tuf Skin" - I
                don't think it actually made your skin tough, but we thought it did.
                Everyone wanted to be Abebe Bikila.

                Yep, I imagine macadam (not nearly as smooth as blacktop, and less stable)
                would wreak havoc on bare feet, no matter how tough.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of eighth_conn_inf
                Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:20 PM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.



                Thank you Gerry and Harry--fortunately for me I have both. I see
                references about straggling and bare feet but nothing specific yet
                about the Macadamized turnpikes, but Carman has a couple. Just makes
                sense though that bare feet walking on crushed stone does not work no
                matter how tough those feet may be, IMO.

                Reminds me of my Conn. days when a fellow runner, Dr. Charlie
                Robinson, would run road races in bare feet! He was about 25 years
                older than I and always beat me--I started catching up when he
                reached his 70's. Of course his feet were toughened before he did
                this consistently and he did wear socks in the winter. I assume he
                had good biomechanics: no flat feet, no bunions, etc. Still, I always
                marveled at him. BTW, his doctorate was reportedly in psychology,
                figures.

                Larry F.

                --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > For those who may be confused, there are two collections, one from
                Kent State and one from UNC. They are two different collections of
                Gallagher edited essays on the Maryland Campaign.
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: G E Mayers
                > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:08 PM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
                >
                >
                > Dear Larry,
                >
                > The Gallagher book "Antietam" is the one I was referring to.
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:02 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
                >
                > Thanks Gerry, I will check out that book and his other book of
                > essays, "Antietam."
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Dear Larry;
                > >
                > > To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely
                > > macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it
                > > led right into Sharpsburg, I would doubt it.
                > >
                > > The Hagerstown Turnpike also might have been macadamized but
                > > again might not.
                > >
                > > At that point in the war, Southern footsoles were not as tough
                > > as
                > > they would be about a year later. Straggling due to the road
                > > surfaces was a major problem during the campaign.
                > >
                > > Gary Gallaher's editing of the volume titled "The Antietam
                > > Campaign" has several good essays in it that might be helpful.
                > >
                > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > >
                > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                > > from
                > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:46 PM
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
                > >
                > >
                > > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to
                > > hear
                > > them
                > > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
                > > references pls let me know.
                > >
                > > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
                > > everywhere
                > > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or
                > > discuss the
                > > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the
                > > National
                > > Road
                > > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading
                > > out
                > > of
                > > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question
                > > has
                > > to do
                > > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
                > > marching
                > > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on
                > > both
                > > sides
                > > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor
                > > for
                > > the
                > > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
                > > minor
                > > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
                > > from
                > > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
                > >
                > > <snip>
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Thomas Clemens
                Yes the dates of destruction of bridges, Johnson s orders, are correct. Hagerstown Pike and Boonsboro Shepherdstown Pike were private toll roads. Although
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Yes the dates of destruction of bridges, Johnson's orders, are correct. Hagerstown Pike and Boonsboro Shepherdstown Pike were private toll roads. Although perhaps not of the quality of the National Road, both were nominally macademized.
                  There are several accounts of shoeless Confederates being weeded out before crossing the Potomac. Supposedly they were sent to Winchester to get supplied with shoes and then meet Lee in Hagerstown area. Therfore, most rebs in the MD campaign had shoes, or at least were supposed to have shoes. I have a newspaper account from a Lt. writing his hometown paper about guys left in VA for lack of shoes, or other physical ailments.


                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College


                  >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 01/16/08 4:46 PM >>>
                  If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to hear them
                  but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
                  references pls let me know.

                  Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were everywhere
                  but he does not say which roads were and to what length or discuss the
                  quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the National Road
                  was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading out of
                  D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question has to do
                  with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and marching
                  around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on both sides
                  but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor for the
                  Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very minor
                  concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg from
                  Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?

                  I've read that the bridges at Point of Rocks, Shepherdstown, and
                  Brunswick were all burned at Jackson's orders (Johnston's?) on 9 June
                  1861--I have 2 references (Robertson: "Stonewall" and
                  Turner "Railroads" showing the RR bridge at HF was blown up on 14 June.
                  Are these dates correct?

                  The RR bridge at HF was the only bridge across either river in 1861?
                  But what about the Winchester and Potomac RR; did it cross the
                  Shenendoah at HF or how did it connect with the B&O? I understand that
                  during the Maryland Campaign the pontoon bridge above the burned B&O RR
                  bridge was the only bridge still intact?

                  Thank you,
                  Larry F.
                • eighth_conn_inf
                  Thanks Tom, Any idea about the RR bridge for the Winchester Potomac? Was there a RR bridge that carried the WP across the Shenandoah or Potomac near HF? I
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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                    Thanks Tom,

                    Any idea about the RR bridge for the Winchester Potomac? Was there a
                    RR bridge that carried the WP across the Shenandoah or Potomac near
                    HF?

                    I wonder if the Macadamized road also had a bad effort upon horses.
                    Of course they had shoes but I guess they would last the month that
                    they spend in Maryland regardless. I read in Carman that the
                    Confederates tried to weed out weaker horses before entering
                    Maryland; I also read that some Confederates threw away their shoes
                    so they could stay in Virginia.

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Yes the dates of destruction of bridges, Johnson's orders, are
                    correct. Hagerstown Pike and Boonsboro Shepherdstown Pike were
                    private toll roads. Although perhaps not of the quality of the
                    National Road, both were nominally macademized.
                    > There are several accounts of shoeless Confederates being weeded
                    out before crossing the Potomac. Supposedly they were sent to
                    Winchester to get supplied with shoes and then meet Lee in Hagerstown
                    area. Therfore, most rebs in the MD campaign had shoes, or at least
                    were supposed to have shoes. I have a newspaper account from a Lt.
                    writing his hometown paper about guys left in VA for lack of shoes,
                    or other physical ailments.
                    >
                    >
                    > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > Professor of History
                    > Hagerstown Community College
                    >
                    >
                    > >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 01/16/08 4:46 PM >>>
                    > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to hear
                    them
                    > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
                    > references pls let me know.
                    >
                    > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
                    everywhere
                    > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or discuss
                    the
                    > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the National
                    Road
                    > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading out of
                    > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question has
                    to do
                    > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
                    marching
                    > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on both
                    sides
                    > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor for
                    the
                    > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
                    minor
                    > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
                    from
                    > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
                    >
                    > I've read that the bridges at Point of Rocks, Shepherdstown, and
                    > Brunswick were all burned at Jackson's orders (Johnston's?) on 9
                    June
                    > 1861--I have 2 references (Robertson: "Stonewall" and
                    > Turner "Railroads" showing the RR bridge at HF was blown up on 14
                    June.
                    > Are these dates correct?
                    >
                    > The RR bridge at HF was the only bridge across either river in
                    1861?
                    > But what about the Winchester and Potomac RR; did it cross the
                    > Shenendoah at HF or how did it connect with the B&O? I understand
                    that
                    > during the Maryland Campaign the pontoon bridge above the burned
                    B&O RR
                    > bridge was the only bridge still intact?
                    >
                    > Thank you,
                    > Larry F.
                    >
                  • eighth_conn_inf
                    Back then running shoes supplied little support anyway IIRC. In recent years, the great variety of shoes makes it easy. Now I run so slow and short that
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 16, 2008
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                      Back then "running" shoes supplied little support anyway IIRC. In
                      recent years, the great variety of shoes makes it easy. Now I run so
                      slow and short that whatever Costco has on sale is good enough.

                      My guess is that CW Macadamized roads unless they were well
                      maintained probably had more dirt than crushed stone on the roadbed.

                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Back in the 70's, when a different version of me ran cross-country,
                      we would
                      > occasionally run on the blacktop roads barefoot to toughen up our
                      feet.
                      > We'd also spray the soles of our feet with something called "Tuf
                      Skin" - I
                      > don't think it actually made your skin tough, but we thought it did.
                      > Everyone wanted to be Abebe Bikila.
                      >
                      > Yep, I imagine macadam (not nearly as smooth as blacktop, and less
                      stable)
                      > would wreak havoc on bare feet, no matter how tough.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of eighth_conn_inf
                      > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:20 PM
                      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thank you Gerry and Harry--fortunately for me I have both. I see
                      > references about straggling and bare feet but nothing specific yet
                      > about the Macadamized turnpikes, but Carman has a couple. Just
                      makes
                      > sense though that bare feet walking on crushed stone does not work
                      no
                      > matter how tough those feet may be, IMO.
                      >
                      > Reminds me of my Conn. days when a fellow runner, Dr. Charlie
                      > Robinson, would run road races in bare feet! He was about 25 years
                      > older than I and always beat me--I started catching up when he
                      > reached his 70's. Of course his feet were toughened before he did
                      > this consistently and he did wear socks in the winter. I assume he
                      > had good biomechanics: no flat feet, no bunions, etc. Still, I
                      always
                      > marveled at him. BTW, his doctorate was reportedly in psychology,
                      > figures.
                      >
                      > Larry F.
                      >
                      > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > For those who may be confused, there are two collections, one
                      from
                      > Kent State and one from UNC. They are two different collections of
                      > Gallagher edited essays on the Maryland Campaign.
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: G E Mayers
                      > > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:08 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Dear Larry,
                      > >
                      > > The Gallagher book "Antietam" is the one I was referring to.
                      > >
                      > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > >
                      > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                      > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 6:02 PM
                      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks Gerry, I will check out that book and his other book of
                      > > essays, "Antietam."
                      > >
                      > > --- In TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Dear Larry;
                      > > >
                      > > > To the best of my knowledge the National Road was definitely
                      > > > macadamized; the Boonsborough Pike may have been but, since it
                      > > > led right into Sharpsburg, I would doubt it.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Hagerstown Turnpike also might have been macadamized but
                      > > > again might not.
                      > > >
                      > > > At that point in the war, Southern footsoles were not as tough
                      > > > as
                      > > > they would be about a year later. Straggling due to the road
                      > > > surfaces was a major problem during the campaign.
                      > > >
                      > > > Gary Gallaher's editing of the volume titled "The Antietam
                      > > > Campaign" has several good essays in it that might be helpful.
                      > > >
                      > > > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > > >
                      > > > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > > > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > > > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                      > > > from
                      > > > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@>
                      > > > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:46 PM
                      > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Macadamized turnpikes, RR's, etc.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > If folks have some answers/opinions re the below I'd like to
                      > > > hear
                      > > > them
                      > > > but pls don't spend time researching: if you have good specific
                      > > > references pls let me know.
                      > > >
                      > > > Macadamized (crushed rock) roads according to Carman were
                      > > > everywhere
                      > > > but he does not say which roads were and to what length or
                      > > > discuss the
                      > > > quality of the use of crushed rock. My guess is that the
                      > > > National
                      > > > Road
                      > > > was fully macadamized as were many of the main roads leading
                      > > > out
                      > > > of
                      > > > D.C. How about the roads/pikes around Sharpsburg? My question
                      > > > has
                      > > > to do
                      > > > with the many barefoot Confederates coming out of Virginia and
                      > > > marching
                      > > > around during the Maryland Campaign. Straggling was heavy on
                      > > > both
                      > > > sides
                      > > > but wasn't the factor of shod v. unshod feet more of a factor
                      > > > for
                      > > > the
                      > > > Confederates? Or are road surfaces during the campaign of very
                      > > > minor
                      > > > concern? I wondered about Jackson's slow marches to Martinsburg
                      > > > from
                      > > > Frederick and then to HF--barefooted, slow soldiers?
                      > > >
                      > > > <snip>
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Thomas Clemens
                      Larry, Only one bridge crossed the river at HF. It carried the B&O RR across the river as well as foot traffic. On the VA shore a station lay between the B&O
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 17, 2008
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                        Larry,
                        Only one bridge crossed the river at HF. It carried the B&O RR across the river as well as foot traffic. On the VA shore a station lay between the B&O which curved to the right and went west, and the Winchester & Potomac which went straight ahead. Although the station is gone the same split in the tracks exists today.


                        Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College
                      • eighth_conn_inf
                        Thanks Tom--that clears that up for me. ... across the river as well as foot traffic. On the VA shore a station lay between the B&O which curved to the right
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 17, 2008
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                          Thanks Tom--that clears that up for me.

                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Larry,
                          > Only one bridge crossed the river at HF. It carried the B&O RR
                          across the river as well as foot traffic. On the VA shore a station
                          lay between the B&O which curved to the right and went west, and the
                          Winchester & Potomac which went straight ahead. Although the station
                          is gone the same split in the tracks exists today.
                          >
                          >
                          > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                          > Professor of History
                          > Hagerstown Community College
                          >
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