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General Mansfield

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  • Jim Rosebrock
    Can anyone tell me about the politics behind the selection of MG Mansfield to command the XII Corps. I know he had been pushing for command but was it
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 21, 2007
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      Can anyone tell me about the politics behind the selection of MG Mansfield to command the XII Corps. I know he had been pushing for command but was it supported by McClellan or was he pushed on McClellan by Lincoln-Stanton-Halleck? From McClellans point of view, was Mansfield a lesser of two evils compared to Nathaniel Banks

      Jim Rosebrock


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    • Joseph Pierro
      Jim: My sense, at least as Mansfield and Banks were concerned, that the decision had more to do with a preference for the latter to remain in charge of the
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 21, 2007
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        Jim:

        My sense, at least as Mansfield and Banks were concerned, that the decision had more to do with a preference for the latter to remain in charge of the Washington defenses. (For a detailed discussion of Banks's role during this period, see Irwin's article in v2 of B&L, "Washington Under Banks.")

        Given the Lincoln administration's understandable skepticism of assurances by McClellan that the troops left for the defense of the city was adequate to the demand, Banks (whatever his shortcomings had been in the field against Jackson) was seen as the most reliable and tested general officer (of those that were immediately available) for the command.

        Besides, given the friction between the Army of Va/AoP high command in the Second Manassas campaign, sending another A.Va corps commander, such as Banks, to serve under McClellan likely seemed more problematic than sending an outsider like Mansfield.

        Further, McClellan had never wanted Heintzelman in corps command. Heintzelman was forced upon him by Lincoln at the outset of the Peninsula campaign. (It's one of the reasons he fought so hard to have the order that relieved Franklin from command and placed the Sixth Corps under Heintzelman's leadership recinded. Had the order stood, it would have meant marching into Maryland either without the Sixth Corps or with Heintzelman, and neither prospect much appealed to Little Mac.)

        --jake

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@...>
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:13:18 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

        Can anyone tell me about the politics behind the selection of MG Mansfield to command the XII Corps. I know he had been pushing for command but was it supported by McClellan or was he pushed on McClellan by Lincoln-Stanton- Halleck? From McClellans point of view, was Mansfield a lesser of two evils compared to Nathaniel Banks

        Jim Rosebrock

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      • Jim Rosebrock
        Thanks Jake. What kind of relationship did Mansfield have with McClellan? Mansfield, like the other early Corps commanders were considerably senior to
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 21, 2007
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          Thanks Jake.
          What kind of relationship did Mansfield have with McClellan? Mansfield, like the other early Corps commanders were considerably senior to McClellan in the old regular army. They must have interacted while Mansfield was performing other duties in the Washington area prior to the Maryland campaign?
          Jim

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Joseph Pierro <joseph_pierro@...>
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:05:13 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

          Jim:

          My sense, at least as Mansfield and Banks were concerned, that the decision had more to do with a preference for the latter to remain in charge of the Washington defenses. (For a detailed discussion of Banks's role during this period, see Irwin's article in v2 of B&L, "Washington Under Banks.")

          Given the Lincoln administration' s understandable skepticism of assurances by McClellan that the troops left for the defense of the city was adequate to the demand, Banks (whatever his shortcomings had been in the field against Jackson) was seen as the most reliable and tested general officer (of those that were immediately available) for the command.

          Besides, given the friction between the Army of Va/AoP high command in the Second Manassas campaign, sending another A.Va corps commander, such as Banks, to serve under McClellan likely seemed more problematic than sending an outsider like Mansfield.

          Further, McClellan had never wanted Heintzelman in corps command. Heintzelman was forced upon him by Lincoln at the outset of the Peninsula campaign. (It's one of the reasons he fought so hard to have the order that relieved Franklin from command and placed the Sixth Corps under Heintzelman' s leadership recinded. Had the order stood, it would have meant marching into Maryland either without the Sixth Corps or with Heintzelman, and neither prospect much appealed to Little Mac.)

          --jake

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@ yahoo.com>
          To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:13:18 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

          Can anyone tell me about the politics behind the selection of MG Mansfield to command the XII Corps. I know he had been pushing for command but was it supported by McClellan or was he pushed on McClellan by Lincoln-Stanton- Halleck? From McClellans point of view, was Mansfield a lesser of two evils compared to Nathaniel Banks

          Jim Rosebrock

          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          Looking for last minute shopping deals?
          Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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          know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        • Joseph Pierro
          Jim: I flipped through several McClellan bios on my shelf, and none of them reference Mansfield prior to the MD campaign. In Sears s Civil War Papers of GBM,
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 21, 2007
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            Jim:

            I flipped through several McClellan bios on my shelf, and none of them reference Mansfield prior to the MD campaign.

            In Sears's Civil War Papers of GBM, there's a note from Mac to Lincoln (pp. 29-30) in June 1861 (when the former was still commanding the Dept. of the Ohio) asking that his father in law replace Mansfield (who had been promoted and reassigned to the Dept of Washington) as IG in the Ohio Dept, so Mansfield had likely had some fleeting contact with him in a staff capacity (However, McClellan was assigned the command on May 3, and Mansfield was already gone by the 1st of June. If they had any interaction at all -- assuming Mansfield hadn't already been promoted before Mac's assumption of command -- it couldn't have been much.)

            A more telling one (p. 70) is a note to his wife on July 27, in which Mac says, "I have been assigned to the command of a Division -- composed of Depts of N.E. Va (that under McDowell) & that of Washington (now under Mansfield) -- neither of them like it much -- especially Mansfield, but I think they must ere long become accustomed to it, as there is no help for it. . . . " (He makes the same statement in Own Story, p. 70).

            Mansfield remained in command of the District of Columbia until being assigned to the command of Newport News, Va, in October 1861. Given McClellan's focus on re-organizing the Army of the Potomac after Manassas (to say nothing of his duties as general in chief), I'm not sure how much attention he paid to Mansfield during these four months.

            As for what Mansfield might have thought, I for one have never seen anything written by him besides what is printed in the OR.

            --jake





            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@...>
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 4:28:31 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

            Thanks Jake.
            What kind of relationship did Mansfield have with McClellan? Mansfield, like the other early Corps commanders were considerably senior to McClellan in the old regular army. They must have interacted while Mansfield was performing other duties in the Washington area prior to the Maryland campaign?
            Jim

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Joseph Pierro <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
            To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:05:13 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

            Jim:

            My sense, at least as Mansfield and Banks were concerned, that the decision had more to do with a preference for the latter to remain in charge of the Washington defenses. (For a detailed discussion of Banks's role during this period, see Irwin's article in v2 of B&L, "Washington Under Banks.")

            Given the Lincoln administration' s understandable skepticism of assurances by McClellan that the troops left for the defense of the city was adequate to the demand, Banks (whatever his shortcomings had been in the field against Jackson) was seen as the most reliable and tested general officer (of those that were immediately available) for the command.

            Besides, given the friction between the Army of Va/AoP high command in the Second Manassas campaign, sending another A.Va corps commander, such as Banks, to serve under McClellan likely seemed more problematic than sending an outsider like Mansfield.

            Further, McClellan had never wanted Heintzelman in corps command. Heintzelman was forced upon him by Lincoln at the outset of the Peninsula campaign. (It's one of the reasons he fought so hard to have the order that relieved Franklin from command and placed the Sixth Corps under Heintzelman' s leadership recinded. Had the order stood, it would have meant marching into Maryland either without the Sixth Corps or with Heintzelman, and neither prospect much appealed to Little Mac.)

            --jake

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@ yahoo.com>
            To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:13:18 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

            Can anyone tell me about the politics behind the selection of MG Mansfield to command the XII Corps. I know he had been pushing for command but was it supported by McClellan or was he pushed on McClellan by Lincoln-Stanton- Halleck? From McClellans point of view, was Mansfield a lesser of two evils compared to Nathaniel Banks

            Jim Rosebrock

            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            Looking for last minute shopping deals?
            Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            Be a better friend, newshound, and
            know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
            http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            ____________________________________________________________________________________
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            know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jim Rosebrock
            Thank you Jake. Mansfield is someone who has interested me for some time. I am going to do some more digging. I just started volunteering at Antietam
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 21, 2007
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              Thank you Jake. Mansfield is someone who has interested me for some time. I am going to do some more digging. I just started volunteering at Antietam Battlefield but am a lifelong student of military history and particularly the Civil War. Appreciate your insights.

              Jim


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Joseph Pierro <joseph_pierro@...>
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 6:40:53 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

              Jim:

              I flipped through several McClellan bios on my shelf, and none of them reference Mansfield prior to the MD campaign.

              In Sears's Civil War Papers of GBM, there's a note from Mac to Lincoln (pp. 29-30) in June 1861 (when the former was still commanding the Dept. of the Ohio) asking that his father in law replace Mansfield (who had been promoted and reassigned to the Dept of Washington) as IG in the Ohio Dept, so Mansfield had likely had some fleeting contact with him in a staff capacity (However, McClellan was assigned the command on May 3, and Mansfield was already gone by the 1st of June. If they had any interaction at all -- assuming Mansfield hadn't already been promoted before Mac's assumption of command -- it couldn't have been much.)

              A more telling one (p. 70) is a note to his wife on July 27, in which Mac says, "I have been assigned to the command of a Division -- composed of Depts of N.E. Va (that under McDowell) & that of Washington (now under Mansfield) -- neither of them like it much -- especially Mansfield, but I think they must ere long become accustomed to it, as there is no help for it. . . . " (He makes the same statement in Own Story, p. 70).

              Mansfield remained in command of the District of Columbia until being assigned to the command of Newport News, Va, in October 1861. Given McClellan's focus on re-organizing the Army of the Potomac after Manassas (to say nothing of his duties as general in chief), I'm not sure how much attention he paid to Mansfield during these four months.

              As for what Mansfield might have thought, I for one have never seen anything written by him besides what is printed in the OR.

              --jake



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@ yahoo.com>
              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 4:28:31 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

              Thanks Jake.
              What kind of relationship did Mansfield have with McClellan? Mansfield, like the other early Corps commanders were considerably senior to McClellan in the old regular army. They must have interacted while Mansfield was performing other duties in the Washington area prior to the Maryland campaign?
              Jim

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Joseph Pierro <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:05:13 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

              Jim:

              My sense, at least as Mansfield and Banks were concerned, that the decision had more to do with a preference for the latter to remain in charge of the Washington defenses. (For a detailed discussion of Banks's role during this period, see Irwin's article in v2 of B&L, "Washington Under Banks.")

              Given the Lincoln administration' s understandable skepticism of assurances by McClellan that the troops left for the defense of the city was adequate to the demand, Banks (whatever his shortcomings had been in the field against Jackson) was seen as the most reliable and tested general officer (of those that were immediately available) for the command.

              Besides, given the friction between the Army of Va/AoP high command in the Second Manassas campaign, sending another A.Va corps commander, such as Banks, to serve under McClellan likely seemed more problematic than sending an outsider like Mansfield.

              Further, McClellan had never wanted Heintzelman in corps command. Heintzelman was forced upon him by Lincoln at the outset of the Peninsula campaign. (It's one of the reasons he fought so hard to have the order that relieved Franklin from command and placed the Sixth Corps under Heintzelman' s leadership recinded. Had the order stood, it would have meant marching into Maryland either without the Sixth Corps or with Heintzelman, and neither prospect much appealed to Little Mac.)

              --jake

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@ yahoo.com>
              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:13:18 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield

              Can anyone tell me about the politics behind the selection of MG Mansfield to command the XII Corps. I know he had been pushing for command but was it supported by McClellan or was he pushed on McClellan by Lincoln-Stanton- Halleck? From McClellans point of view, was Mansfield a lesser of two evils compared to Nathaniel Banks

              Jim Rosebrock

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              Looking for last minute shopping deals?
              Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              Be a better friend, newshound, and
              know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
              http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              Be a better friend, newshound, and
              know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Be a better friend, newshound, and
              know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eighth_conn_inf
              Jim, I wrote a paper which included info about Mansfield. It is available on line on Military History Online on its home page:
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 21, 2007
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                Jim,

                I wrote a paper which included info about Mansfield. It is available
                on line on Military History Online on its home page:
                http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/

                http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/civilwar/articles/nutmeggers1.asp
                x

                It may have some reference which may help.

                Larry F.


                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Thank you Jake. Mansfield is someone who has interested me for
                some time. I am going to do some more digging. I just started
                volunteering at Antietam Battlefield but am a lifelong student of
                military history and particularly the Civil War. Appreciate your
                insights.
                >
                > Jim
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Joseph Pierro <joseph_pierro@...>
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 6:40:53 PM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield
                >
                > Jim:
                >
                > I flipped through several McClellan bios on my shelf, and none of
                them reference Mansfield prior to the MD campaign.
                >
                > In Sears's Civil War Papers of GBM, there's a note from Mac to
                Lincoln (pp. 29-30) in June 1861 (when the former was still
                commanding the Dept. of the Ohio) asking that his father in law
                replace Mansfield (who had been promoted and reassigned to the Dept
                of Washington) as IG in the Ohio Dept, so Mansfield had likely had
                some fleeting contact with him in a staff capacity (However,
                McClellan was assigned the command on May 3, and Mansfield was
                already gone by the 1st of June. If they had any interaction at all --
                assuming Mansfield hadn't already been promoted before Mac's
                assumption of command -- it couldn't have been much.)
                >
                > A more telling one (p. 70) is a note to his wife on July 27, in
                which Mac says, "I have been assigned to the command of a Division --
                composed of Depts of N.E. Va (that under McDowell) & that of
                Washington (now under Mansfield) -- neither of them like it much --
                especially Mansfield, but I think they must ere long become
                accustomed to it, as there is no help for it. . . . " (He makes the
                same statement in Own Story, p. 70).
                >
                > Mansfield remained in command of the District of Columbia until
                being assigned to the command of Newport News, Va, in October 1861.
                Given McClellan's focus on re-organizing the Army of the Potomac
                after Manassas (to say nothing of his duties as general in chief),
                I'm not sure how much attention he paid to Mansfield during these
                four months.
                >
                > As for what Mansfield might have thought, I for one have never seen
                anything written by him besides what is printed in the OR.
                >
                > --jake
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@ yahoo.com>
                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 4:28:31 PM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield
                >
                > Thanks Jake.
                > What kind of relationship did Mansfield have with McClellan?
                Mansfield, like the other early Corps commanders were considerably
                senior to McClellan in the old regular army. They must have
                interacted while Mansfield was performing other duties in the
                Washington area prior to the Maryland campaign?
                > Jim
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Joseph Pierro <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:05:13 PM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield
                >
                > Jim:
                >
                > My sense, at least as Mansfield and Banks were concerned, that the
                decision had more to do with a preference for the latter to remain in
                charge of the Washington defenses. (For a detailed discussion of
                Banks's role during this period, see Irwin's article in v2 of
                B&L, "Washington Under Banks.")
                >
                > Given the Lincoln administration' s understandable skepticism of
                assurances by McClellan that the troops left for the defense of the
                city was adequate to the demand, Banks (whatever his shortcomings had
                been in the field against Jackson) was seen as the most reliable and
                tested general officer (of those that were immediately available) for
                the command.
                >
                > Besides, given the friction between the Army of Va/AoP high command
                in the Second Manassas campaign, sending another A.Va corps
                commander, such as Banks, to serve under McClellan likely seemed more
                problematic than sending an outsider like Mansfield.
                >
                > Further, McClellan had never wanted Heintzelman in corps command.
                Heintzelman was forced upon him by Lincoln at the outset of the
                Peninsula campaign. (It's one of the reasons he fought so hard to
                have the order that relieved Franklin from command and placed the
                Sixth Corps under Heintzelman' s leadership recinded. Had the order
                stood, it would have meant marching into Maryland either without the
                Sixth Corps or with Heintzelman, and neither prospect much appealed
                to Little Mac.)
                >
                > --jake
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Jim Rosebrock <pointsalines@ yahoo.com>
                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:13:18 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] General Mansfield
                >
                > Can anyone tell me about the politics behind the selection of MG
                Mansfield to command the XII Corps. I know he had been pushing for
                command but was it supported by McClellan or was he pushed on
                McClellan by Lincoln-Stanton- Halleck? From McClellans point of view,
                was Mansfield a lesser of two evils compared to Nathaniel Banks
                >
                > Jim Rosebrock
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo.
                com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                > Be a better friend, newshound, and
                > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.
                yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                > http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                > Be a better friend, newshound, and
                > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.
                yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ______________________________________________________________________
                ______________
                > Be a better friend, newshound, and
                > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
                http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Stephen Recker
                Pardon the OT, but I saw National Treasure last night. Fun to see Lincoln and the CW on the big screen again. Anyone else see it? Stephen
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 22, 2007
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                  Pardon the OT, but I saw National Treasure last night. Fun to see
                  Lincoln and the CW on the big screen again. Anyone else see it?

                  Stephen
                • Brian Richardson
                  Hi Stephen - Just got home from seeing the new National Treasure - I know, I should have been home studying! I agree with you, it was a lot of fun, with some
                  Message 8 of 8 , Dec 22, 2007
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                    Hi Stephen -

                    Just got home from seeing the new National Treasure - I know, I should
                    have been home studying! I agree with you, it was a lot of fun, with
                    some good shots of historic places. I happened to notice in the
                    credits that they named the actor who played Asa Trenchard instead of
                    using Harry Hawk's name. Wonder why? I don't suppose many people in
                    the audience would be familiar with either name, so I guess it's just a
                    point of curiosity.

                    Brian Richardson
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