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Re: CWDG

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  • barringer63
    ... David Welker, author of Tempest at Ox Hill: The Battle of Chantilly wrote that if Lee hadn t been distracted by more important battles like 2nd Manassas
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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      Gerry Mayers wrote:
      >
      > Dear Stephen,
      >
      > If you have read Harsh's Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is
      > a discussion there about Stuart's involvement in that campaign as
      > well as the Ox Hill battle. That might help answer your question,
      > with apologies to Mr Lincoln.

      David Welker, author of "Tempest at Ox Hill: The Battle of
      Chantilly" wrote that if Lee hadn't been distracted by more important
      battles like 2nd Manassas and Antietam, it's very likely Stuart would
      have been brought up on charges of "dereliction of duty" for his
      abysmal performance at Ox Hill. Personally, I'm surprised Jackson
      didn't have Stuart shot.

      Teej
      >
    • richard@rcroker.com
      I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In fact - I d ALMOST bet the ranch. ... From: barringer63 To:
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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        I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: barringer63
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:47 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


        Stephen Recker wrote:
        >
        > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
        of
        > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

        As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
        crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
        Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
        physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
        well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
        been. :-)

        Teej
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Recker
        Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-) -sjr On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM,
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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          Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-)

          -sjr

          On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM, <richard@...>
          wrote:

          > I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II.
          > In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
        • richard@rcroker.com
          Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes appologies. Had I paid more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without hesitation that the
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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            Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes appologies. Had I paid more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

            As always, your obdient servant,

            Richard Croker
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Stephen Recker
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:24 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


            Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-)

            -sjr

            On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM, <richard@...>
            wrote:

            > I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II.
            > In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Harry Smeltzer
            It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke - sorry, Steve! ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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              It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
              sorry, Steve!



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of richard@...
              Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:01 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



              I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In
              fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: barringer63
              To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:47 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

              Stephen Recker wrote:
              >
              > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
              of
              > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

              As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
              crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
              Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
              physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
              well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
              been. :-)

              Teej
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Recker
              ... In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with gladness, and I will work on my material as well. Interesting about that Lincoln
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                > Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I paid
                > more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without
                > hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                > It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                > sorry, Steve!

                In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with
                gladness, and I will work on my material as well.

                Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both sides
                after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty decent
                case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that would cause
                them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding around
                Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                early-September performance?

                Stephen Recker
                Historical Humorist
              • Harry Smeltzer
                Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty much apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has been interpreted as examples
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
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                  Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty much
                  apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has been
                  interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic wit can be
                  more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of military
                  realities.

                  Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!

                  Harry



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                  Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                  > Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I paid
                  > more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without
                  > hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                  On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                  > It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                  > sorry, Steve!

                  In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with
                  gladness, and I will work on my material as well.

                  Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both sides
                  after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty decent
                  case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that would cause
                  them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding around
                  Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                  early-September performance?

                  Stephen Recker
                  Historical Humorist





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Harry, How about both factors at work? What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
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                    Dear Harry,

                    How about both factors at work?

                    What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the
                    mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                    particularly generals like Butterfield and Sickles, and the
                    distrust of the volunteers (in general) for West Point trained
                    officers.

                    Recall the famous scene in THE movie where the private from the
                    Second Maine is talking to Chamberlain???

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:52 AM
                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


                    > Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty
                    > much
                    > apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has
                    > been
                    > interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic
                    > wit can be
                    > more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of
                    > military
                    > realities.
                    >
                    > Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!
                    >
                    > Harry
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                    > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >> Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I
                    >> paid
                    >> more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known
                    >> without
                    >> hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please
                    >> accept.
                    >
                    > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    >> It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL
                    >> a joke -
                    >> sorry, Steve!
                    >
                    > In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind
                    > words with
                    > gladness, and I will work on my material as well.
                    >
                    > Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both
                    > sides
                    > after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty
                    > decent
                    > case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that
                    > would cause
                    > them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding
                    > around
                    > Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                    > early-September performance?
                    >
                    > Stephen Recker
                    > Historical Humorist
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • Harry Smeltzer
                    Well, Gerry, that IS a movie. And I think there were other things about Butterfield and Sickles that West Pointers disliked aside from their alma maters. I
                    Message 9 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
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                      Well, Gerry, that IS a movie.

                      And I think there were other things about Butterfield and Sickles that West
                      Pointers disliked aside from their alma maters.

                      I think that distrust of amateurs by professionals is prevalent in any
                      profession, be it the military, the law, medicine, accounting, plumbing,
                      welding, you name it.

                      Harry



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of G E Mayers
                      Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:04 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                      Dear Harry,

                      How about both factors at work?

                      What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the
                      mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                      particularly generals like Butterfield and Sickles, and the
                      distrust of the volunteers (in general) for West Point trained
                      officers.

                      Recall the famous scene in THE movie where the private from the
                      Second Maine is talking to Chamberlain???

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@comcast. <mailto:hjs21%40comcast.net> net>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:52 AM
                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

                      > Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty
                      > much
                      > apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has
                      > been
                      > interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic
                      > wit can be
                      > more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of
                      > military
                      > realities.
                      >
                      > Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!
                      >
                      > Harry
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                      yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                      > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                      > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >> Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I
                      >> paid
                      >> more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known
                      >> without
                      >> hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please
                      >> accept.
                      >
                      > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      >> It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL
                      >> a joke -
                      >> sorry, Steve!
                      >
                      > In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind
                      > words with
                      > gladness, and I will work on my material as well.
                      >
                      > Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both
                      > sides
                      > after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty
                      > decent
                      > case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that
                      > would cause
                      > them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding
                      > around
                      > Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                      > early-September performance?
                      >
                      > Stephen Recker
                      > Historical Humorist
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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