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Re: CWDG

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  • barringer63
    ... of ... As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on Bev
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
      Stephen Recker wrote:
      >
      > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
      of
      > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

      As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
      crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
      Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
      physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
      well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
      been. :-)

      Teej
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Stephen, If you have read Harsh s Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is a discussion there about Stuart s involvement in that campaign as well as the Ox
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
        Dear Stephen,

        If you have read Harsh's Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is
        a discussion there about Stuart's involvement in that campaign as
        well as the Ox Hill battle. That might help answer your question,
        with apologies to Mr Lincoln.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:01 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] CWDG


        > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the
        > Battle of
        > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?
        >
        > (Apologies to A. Lincoln)
        >
        > Stephen
        >
        > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 11:13 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
        >
        >> but I wonder if he was suffering from battle fatigue
        >> from the strenuous demands of the just completed 2nd Manassas
        >> campaign against Pope?
        >
        >
      • barringer63
        ... David Welker, author of Tempest at Ox Hill: The Battle of Chantilly wrote that if Lee hadn t been distracted by more important battles like 2nd Manassas
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
          Gerry Mayers wrote:
          >
          > Dear Stephen,
          >
          > If you have read Harsh's Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is
          > a discussion there about Stuart's involvement in that campaign as
          > well as the Ox Hill battle. That might help answer your question,
          > with apologies to Mr Lincoln.

          David Welker, author of "Tempest at Ox Hill: The Battle of
          Chantilly" wrote that if Lee hadn't been distracted by more important
          battles like 2nd Manassas and Antietam, it's very likely Stuart would
          have been brought up on charges of "dereliction of duty" for his
          abysmal performance at Ox Hill. Personally, I'm surprised Jackson
          didn't have Stuart shot.

          Teej
          >
        • richard@rcroker.com
          I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In fact - I d ALMOST bet the ranch. ... From: barringer63 To:
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
            I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: barringer63
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:47 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


            Stephen Recker wrote:
            >
            > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
            of
            > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

            As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
            crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
            Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
            physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
            well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
            been. :-)

            Teej
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen Recker
            Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-) -sjr On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM,
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
              Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-)

              -sjr

              On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM, <richard@...>
              wrote:

              > I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II.
              > In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
            • richard@rcroker.com
              Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes appologies. Had I paid more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without hesitation that the
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes appologies. Had I paid more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                As always, your obdient servant,

                Richard Croker
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Stephen Recker
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:24 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


                Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-)

                -sjr

                On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM, <richard@...>
                wrote:

                > I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II.
                > In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Harry Smeltzer
                It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke - sorry, Steve! ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                  It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                  sorry, Steve!



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of richard@...
                  Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:01 PM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                  I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In
                  fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: barringer63
                  To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:47 PM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

                  Stephen Recker wrote:
                  >
                  > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
                  of
                  > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

                  As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
                  crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
                  Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
                  physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
                  well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
                  been. :-)

                  Teej
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stephen Recker
                  ... In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with gladness, and I will work on my material as well. Interesting about that Lincoln
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                    > Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I paid
                    > more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without
                    > hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                    On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                    > It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                    > sorry, Steve!

                    In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with
                    gladness, and I will work on my material as well.

                    Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both sides
                    after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty decent
                    case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that would cause
                    them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding around
                    Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                    early-September performance?

                    Stephen Recker
                    Historical Humorist
                  • Harry Smeltzer
                    Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty much apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has been interpreted as examples
                    Message 9 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                      Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty much
                      apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has been
                      interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic wit can be
                      more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of military
                      realities.

                      Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!

                      Harry



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                      Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                      > Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I paid
                      > more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without
                      > hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                      On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                      > It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                      > sorry, Steve!

                      In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with
                      gladness, and I will work on my material as well.

                      Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both sides
                      after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty decent
                      case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that would cause
                      them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding around
                      Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                      early-September performance?

                      Stephen Recker
                      Historical Humorist





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • G E Mayers
                      Dear Harry, How about both factors at work? What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                      Message 10 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                        Dear Harry,

                        How about both factors at work?

                        What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the
                        mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                        particularly generals like Butterfield and Sickles, and the
                        distrust of the volunteers (in general) for West Point trained
                        officers.

                        Recall the famous scene in THE movie where the private from the
                        Second Maine is talking to Chamberlain???

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:52 AM
                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


                        > Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty
                        > much
                        > apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has
                        > been
                        > interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic
                        > wit can be
                        > more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of
                        > military
                        > realities.
                        >
                        > Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!
                        >
                        > Harry
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                        > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >> Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I
                        >> paid
                        >> more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known
                        >> without
                        >> hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please
                        >> accept.
                        >
                        > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        >> It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL
                        >> a joke -
                        >> sorry, Steve!
                        >
                        > In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind
                        > words with
                        > gladness, and I will work on my material as well.
                        >
                        > Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both
                        > sides
                        > after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty
                        > decent
                        > case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that
                        > would cause
                        > them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding
                        > around
                        > Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                        > early-September performance?
                        >
                        > Stephen Recker
                        > Historical Humorist
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                      • Harry Smeltzer
                        Well, Gerry, that IS a movie. And I think there were other things about Butterfield and Sickles that West Pointers disliked aside from their alma maters. I
                        Message 11 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                          Well, Gerry, that IS a movie.

                          And I think there were other things about Butterfield and Sickles that West
                          Pointers disliked aside from their alma maters.

                          I think that distrust of amateurs by professionals is prevalent in any
                          profession, be it the military, the law, medicine, accounting, plumbing,
                          welding, you name it.

                          Harry



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of G E Mayers
                          Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:04 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                          Dear Harry,

                          How about both factors at work?

                          What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the
                          mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                          particularly generals like Butterfield and Sickles, and the
                          distrust of the volunteers (in general) for West Point trained
                          officers.

                          Recall the famous scene in THE movie where the private from the
                          Second Maine is talking to Chamberlain???

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@comcast. <mailto:hjs21%40comcast.net> net>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:52 AM
                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

                          > Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty
                          > much
                          > apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has
                          > been
                          > interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic
                          > wit can be
                          > more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of
                          > military
                          > realities.
                          >
                          > Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!
                          >
                          > Harry
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                          yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                          yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                          > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                          > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >> Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I
                          >> paid
                          >> more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known
                          >> without
                          >> hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please
                          >> accept.
                          >
                          > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          >> It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL
                          >> a joke -
                          >> sorry, Steve!
                          >
                          > In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind
                          > words with
                          > gladness, and I will work on my material as well.
                          >
                          > Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both
                          > sides
                          > after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty
                          > decent
                          > case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that
                          > would cause
                          > them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding
                          > around
                          > Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                          > early-September performance?
                          >
                          > Stephen Recker
                          > Historical Humorist
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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