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Re: CWDG

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    Now take Wade Hampton--there s a cavalry general! LHF ... of
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
      Now take Wade Hampton--there's a cavalry general!

      LHF

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
      of
      > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?
      >
      > (Apologies to A. Lincoln)
      >
      > Stephen
      >
      > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 11:13 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
      >
      > > but I wonder if he was suffering from battle fatigue
      > > from the strenuous demands of the just completed 2nd Manassas
      > > campaign against Pope?
      >
    • barringer63
      ... of ... As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on Bev
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
        Stephen Recker wrote:
        >
        > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
        of
        > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

        As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
        crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
        Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
        physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
        well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
        been. :-)

        Teej
        >
      • G E Mayers
        Dear Stephen, If you have read Harsh s Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is a discussion there about Stuart s involvement in that campaign as well as the Ox
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
          Dear Stephen,

          If you have read Harsh's Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is
          a discussion there about Stuart's involvement in that campaign as
          well as the Ox Hill battle. That might help answer your question,
          with apologies to Mr Lincoln.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] CWDG


          > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the
          > Battle of
          > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?
          >
          > (Apologies to A. Lincoln)
          >
          > Stephen
          >
          > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 11:13 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
          >
          >> but I wonder if he was suffering from battle fatigue
          >> from the strenuous demands of the just completed 2nd Manassas
          >> campaign against Pope?
          >
          >
        • barringer63
          ... David Welker, author of Tempest at Ox Hill: The Battle of Chantilly wrote that if Lee hadn t been distracted by more important battles like 2nd Manassas
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
            Gerry Mayers wrote:
            >
            > Dear Stephen,
            >
            > If you have read Harsh's Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is
            > a discussion there about Stuart's involvement in that campaign as
            > well as the Ox Hill battle. That might help answer your question,
            > with apologies to Mr Lincoln.

            David Welker, author of "Tempest at Ox Hill: The Battle of
            Chantilly" wrote that if Lee hadn't been distracted by more important
            battles like 2nd Manassas and Antietam, it's very likely Stuart would
            have been brought up on charges of "dereliction of duty" for his
            abysmal performance at Ox Hill. Personally, I'm surprised Jackson
            didn't have Stuart shot.

            Teej
            >
          • richard@rcroker.com
            I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In fact - I d ALMOST bet the ranch. ... From: barringer63 To:
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
              I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: barringer63
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:47 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


              Stephen Recker wrote:
              >
              > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
              of
              > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

              As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
              crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
              Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
              physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
              well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
              been. :-)

              Teej
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Recker
              Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-) -sjr On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM,
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-)

                -sjr

                On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM, <richard@...>
                wrote:

                > I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II.
                > In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
              • richard@rcroker.com
                Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes appologies. Had I paid more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without hesitation that the
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                  Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes appologies. Had I paid more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                  As always, your obdient servant,

                  Richard Croker
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Stephen Recker
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:24 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


                  Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-)

                  -sjr

                  On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM, <richard@...>
                  wrote:

                  > I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II.
                  > In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Harry Smeltzer
                  It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke - sorry, Steve! ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                    It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                    sorry, Steve!



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of richard@...
                    Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:01 PM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                    I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In
                    fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: barringer63
                    To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:47 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

                    Stephen Recker wrote:
                    >
                    > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
                    of
                    > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

                    As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
                    crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
                    Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
                    physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
                    well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
                    been. :-)

                    Teej
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Stephen Recker
                    ... In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with gladness, and I will work on my material as well. Interesting about that Lincoln
                    Message 9 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                      > Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I paid
                      > more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without
                      > hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                      On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                      > It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                      > sorry, Steve!

                      In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with
                      gladness, and I will work on my material as well.

                      Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both sides
                      after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty decent
                      case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that would cause
                      them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding around
                      Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                      early-September performance?

                      Stephen Recker
                      Historical Humorist
                    • Harry Smeltzer
                      Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty much apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has been interpreted as examples
                      Message 10 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                        Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty much
                        apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has been
                        interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic wit can be
                        more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of military
                        realities.

                        Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!

                        Harry



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                        Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                        > Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I paid
                        > more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without
                        > hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                        On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                        > It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                        > sorry, Steve!

                        In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with
                        gladness, and I will work on my material as well.

                        Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both sides
                        after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty decent
                        case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that would cause
                        them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding around
                        Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                        early-September performance?

                        Stephen Recker
                        Historical Humorist





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • G E Mayers
                        Dear Harry, How about both factors at work? What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                        Message 11 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                          Dear Harry,

                          How about both factors at work?

                          What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the
                          mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                          particularly generals like Butterfield and Sickles, and the
                          distrust of the volunteers (in general) for West Point trained
                          officers.

                          Recall the famous scene in THE movie where the private from the
                          Second Maine is talking to Chamberlain???

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:52 AM
                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


                          > Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty
                          > much
                          > apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has
                          > been
                          > interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic
                          > wit can be
                          > more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of
                          > military
                          > realities.
                          >
                          > Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!
                          >
                          > Harry
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                          > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >> Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I
                          >> paid
                          >> more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known
                          >> without
                          >> hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please
                          >> accept.
                          >
                          > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          >> It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL
                          >> a joke -
                          >> sorry, Steve!
                          >
                          > In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind
                          > words with
                          > gladness, and I will work on my material as well.
                          >
                          > Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both
                          > sides
                          > after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty
                          > decent
                          > case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that
                          > would cause
                          > them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding
                          > around
                          > Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                          > early-September performance?
                          >
                          > Stephen Recker
                          > Historical Humorist
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • Harry Smeltzer
                          Well, Gerry, that IS a movie. And I think there were other things about Butterfield and Sickles that West Pointers disliked aside from their alma maters. I
                          Message 12 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                            Well, Gerry, that IS a movie.

                            And I think there were other things about Butterfield and Sickles that West
                            Pointers disliked aside from their alma maters.

                            I think that distrust of amateurs by professionals is prevalent in any
                            profession, be it the military, the law, medicine, accounting, plumbing,
                            welding, you name it.

                            Harry



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of G E Mayers
                            Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:04 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                            Dear Harry,

                            How about both factors at work?

                            What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the
                            mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                            particularly generals like Butterfield and Sickles, and the
                            distrust of the volunteers (in general) for West Point trained
                            officers.

                            Recall the famous scene in THE movie where the private from the
                            Second Maine is talking to Chamberlain???

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@comcast. <mailto:hjs21%40comcast.net> net>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:52 AM
                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

                            > Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty
                            > much
                            > apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has
                            > been
                            > interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic
                            > wit can be
                            > more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of
                            > military
                            > realities.
                            >
                            > Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!
                            >
                            > Harry
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                            yahoogroups.com] On
                            > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                            > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                            > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >> Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I
                            >> paid
                            >> more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known
                            >> without
                            >> hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please
                            >> accept.
                            >
                            > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            >> It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL
                            >> a joke -
                            >> sorry, Steve!
                            >
                            > In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind
                            > words with
                            > gladness, and I will work on my material as well.
                            >
                            > Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both
                            > sides
                            > after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty
                            > decent
                            > case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that
                            > would cause
                            > them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding
                            > around
                            > Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                            > early-September performance?
                            >
                            > Stephen Recker
                            > Historical Humorist
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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