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RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

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  • Harry Smeltzer
    See, Larry? Do you see what happens when you mention that ball around Teej? Do you see what happens, Larry? Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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      See, Larry? Do you see what happens when you mention that ball around Teej?
      Do you see what happens, Larry?

      Harry



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of barringer63
      Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:57 PM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



      Harry Smeltzer wrote:
      >
      > Don't mention the Urbana shindig around Teej. The Tar Heels weren't
      > invited.

      They were invited....invited to stand guard while Stuart and his
      fellow Vuhjinyans partied down. As for the skirmish during the ball, by
      the time Stuart decided to see what all the fuss outside was about,
      Barringer and his Tar Heels had driven off the Yankee cavalry. Once
      Stuart was assured all was again well, he went back to his N.Y. Reb and
      Barringer and company went back on pickett duty w/o so much as a "thank
      you" cup of punch.

      Teej
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • G E Mayers
      Harry; LOL. Teej took it well..but she did point out something important..... It was the TarHeels who drove the pesky Yankees away, NOT Stuart & Co. Yr. Obt.
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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        Harry;

        LOL. Teej took it well..but she did point out something
        important.....

        It was the TarHeels who drove the pesky Yankees away, NOT Stuart
        & Co.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:59 PM
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


        > See, Larry? Do you see what happens when you mention that ball
        > around Teej?
        > Do you see what happens, Larry?
        >
        > Harry
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of barringer63
        > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 1:57 PM
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
        >
        >
        >
        > Harry Smeltzer wrote:
        >>
        >> Don't mention the Urbana shindig around Teej. The Tar Heels
        >> weren't
        >> invited.
        >
        > They were invited....invited to stand guard while Stuart and
        > his
        > fellow Vuhjinyans partied down. As for the skirmish during the
        > ball, by
        > the time Stuart decided to see what all the fuss outside was
        > about,
        > Barringer and his Tar Heels had driven off the Yankee cavalry.
        > Once
        > Stuart was assured all was again well, he went back to his N.Y.
        > Reb and
        > Barringer and company went back on pickett duty w/o so much as
        > a "thank
        > you" cup of punch.
        >
        > Teej
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
      • richard@rcroker.com
        And people wonder where Jeb was before Gettysburg. Might he have taken an excursion to Urbana for a visit with the New York Rebel? I m just kidding guys!!
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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          And people wonder where Jeb was before Gettysburg. Might he have taken an excursion to Urbana for a visit with the New York Rebel?

          I'm just kidding guys!! Don't shoot me!

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: G E Mayers
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:31 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


          Dear Teej;

          I somehow thought JEB remained Methodist all his life...but
          apparently his vow of temperance continued once he switched to
          the Episcopal Church.

          BTW I have learned a few months ago that many Episcopalian
          congregations in this country used the same Book of Common Prayer
          as was used for the United Church of England and Ireland....

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "barringer63" <teej@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:25 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

          Gerry Mayers wrote:
          >
          > Dear Harry;
          >
          > Do not know how much of what Stuart did during the 2nd Manassas
          > campaign might have impaired his performance during Maryland
          > Campaign. However, it is true that Stuart neither drank hard
          > spirits or smoked...due to his joining the Methodist Church
          > fully
          > after being confirmed en route to a General Conference of the
          > Methodist Episcopal South in Virginia, IIRC, from St.
          > Louis..where he was stationed at the time....

          Stuart's temperance was a product of his mother insisting that
          all
          of her sons take an oath to never touch alcohol. Apparently,
          Stuart's
          father, Archibald Stuart, liked spirits and games of chance a
          little
          too much and Mrs. Stuart was determined her sons wouldn't end up
          like
          her husband. Stuart joined the Methodist Church while at Emory
          and
          Henry. That changed when he got to West Point where he became
          interested in the Episcopal Church. Flora Cooke Stuart was a dyed
          in
          the wool Episcopalian who encouraged her husband to join her
          church. In
          1859 he was asked to be a delegate to the Conference to which you
          referred. He couldn't rightfully be a delegate because he wasn't
          a
          member of the Episcopal Church. A situation he took care of as
          you
          stated in St. Louis. However, he wasn't stationed there; he was
          stationed at Ft. Riley, Kansas. He passed through St. Louis on
          his way
          to DC to get a patent on a sabre release he had invented which he
          sold
          to the War Dept for $5000.
          >
          > Teej





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • richard@rcroker.com
          We must all remember that both sides had professional propoganda machines that would make today s spin rooms blush. I for one don t buy into the tee totaling,
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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            We must all remember that both sides had professional propoganda machines that would make today's spin rooms blush. I for one don't buy into the tee totaling, tobacco free and forever faithful JEB Stuart. It just doesn't match his personality. Okay -- THIS time you can shoot me. Have fun


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: G E Mayers
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:27 AM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] CWDG


            Dear Harry;

            Do not know how much of what Stuart did during the 2nd Manassas
            campaign might have impaired his performance during Maryland
            Campaign. However, it is true that Stuart neither drank hard
            spirits or smoked...due to his joining the Methodist Church fully
            after being confirmed en route to a General Conference of the
            Methodist Episcopal South in Virginia, IIRC, from St.
            Louis..where he was stationed at the time....

            IIRC this was 1859...which is why he was available to assist with
            the John Brown expedition commanded by none other than Marse
            Robt.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:17 AM
            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] CWDG

            > Maybe he was just hung over (I know, teetotaler, but maybe it
            > was a "fun"
            > hangover)? His fatigue did not appear to affect his dancing or
            > dining.
            >
            > Harry
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of G E Mayers
            > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:14 AM
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] CWDG
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Harry and Larry,
            >
            > Sounding the Shadows might also help...and the use of Harsh's
            > footnotes also would be valuable.
            >
            > I agree Maryland Campaign was not one of Stuart's shinin
            > moments....but I wonder if he was suffering from battle fatigue
            > from the strenuous demands of the just completed 2nd Manassas
            > campaign against Pope?
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
            > from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@comcast.
            > <mailto:hjs21%40comcast.net> net>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            > yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:04 AM
            > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] CWDG
            >
            >> Larry,
            >>
            >> No problem. Keep in mind that the points I summarized are not
            >> so much a
            >> product of my supreme intellect but are really a summarization
            >> of points
            >> Harsh made in TATF. I think if he had wanted he could have
            >> built an overt
            >> case against Stuart, but he chose to let the evidence speak
            >> for
            >> itself. You
            >> have to dig through his book and use lots of post-its to link
            >> everything
            >> together.
            >>
            >> Harry
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            > yahoogroups.com
            >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            > yahoogroups.com] On
            >> Behalf Of eighth_conn_inf
            >> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 10:23 AM
            >> To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] CWDG
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Harry,
            >>
            >> Thank you very much for this link; I quickly scanned it and it
            >> looks
            >> like I will have to read it all carefully since it appears to
            >> have
            >> some really good info as well as opinions. I was not aware of
            >> this
            >> website.
            >>
            >> Larry F.
            >>
            >> RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: 13 September 1862 Maryland Heights
            >>
            >> Larry,
            >>
            >> Hmm.looks like that link doesn't take you all the way to the
            >> discussion.
            >> Try this:
            >>
            >> Click
            >> <http://cwdgonline. <http://cwdgonline.
            > <http://cwdgonline.org/modules.php?> org/modules.php?>
            >> org/modules.php?
            >> name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=101&start=0&
            >> file=viewtopic&t=101&start=0> this
            >>
            >> If that doesn't work, click on the link I gave you
            >> earlier.once
            >> you
            >> get to
            >> the forums, click on the 1862 Maryland Campaign button, then
            >> look for
            >> Stuart
            >> in the Maryland Campaign thread.
            >>
            >> Harry
            >>
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> yahoogroups.com
            >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> yahoogroups.com] On
            >> Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
            >> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:48 PM
            >> To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: 13 September 1862 Maryland
            >> Heights
            >>
            >> I think that Lee lost the initiative in the campaign, as Harsh
            >> says,
            >> with
            >> the implementation of SO 191. I agree with his scenario that
            >> Lee was
            >> unaware of the proximity, disposition, and speed of movement
            >> of
            >> the
            >> AotP
            >> prior to the implementation, and that information should have
            >> been
            >> provided
            >> him by Stuart. But it wasn't. IIRC, at one point Stuart
            >> advised
            >> Lee
            >> that
            >> he expected Federal cavalry in Frederick in about a day or so,
            >> and
            >> the next
            >> day the vanguard of the INFANTRY entered the town.
            >>
            >> Maryland 1862 was far from a shining moment for JEB. Check out
            >> this
            >> discussion, since it will save me having to lay all of Harsh's
            >> work
            >> out
            >> again:
            >>
            >> Harry
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Harry Smeltzer
            Based on his performance in Maryland in 1862, I don t see how Stuart s presence with the AoNV in Pennsylvania would have made much of a difference. Seriously.
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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              Based on his performance in Maryland in 1862, I don't see how Stuart's
              presence with the AoNV in Pennsylvania would have made much of a difference.

              Seriously.

              Harry



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of richard@...
              Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 2:39 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



              And people wonder where Jeb was before Gettysburg. Might he have taken an
              excursion to Urbana for a visit with the New York Rebel?

              I'm just kidding guys!! Don't shoot me!

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: G E Mayers
              To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:31 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

              Dear Teej;

              I somehow thought JEB remained Methodist all his life...but
              apparently his vow of temperance continued once he switched to
              the Episcopal Church.

              BTW I have learned a few months ago that many Episcopalian
              congregations in this country used the same Book of Common Prayer
              as was used for the United Church of England and Ireland....

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "barringer63" <teej@... <mailto:teej%40nc.rr.com> >
              To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:25 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

              Gerry Mayers wrote:
              >
              > Dear Harry;
              >
              > Do not know how much of what Stuart did during the 2nd Manassas
              > campaign might have impaired his performance during Maryland
              > Campaign. However, it is true that Stuart neither drank hard
              > spirits or smoked...due to his joining the Methodist Church
              > fully
              > after being confirmed en route to a General Conference of the
              > Methodist Episcopal South in Virginia, IIRC, from St.
              > Louis..where he was stationed at the time....

              Stuart's temperance was a product of his mother insisting that
              all
              of her sons take an oath to never touch alcohol. Apparently,
              Stuart's
              father, Archibald Stuart, liked spirits and games of chance a
              little
              too much and Mrs. Stuart was determined her sons wouldn't end up
              like
              her husband. Stuart joined the Methodist Church while at Emory
              and
              Henry. That changed when he got to West Point where he became
              interested in the Episcopal Church. Flora Cooke Stuart was a dyed
              in
              the wool Episcopalian who encouraged her husband to join her
              church. In
              1859 he was asked to be a delegate to the Conference to which you
              referred. He couldn't rightfully be a delegate because he wasn't
              a
              member of the Episcopal Church. A situation he took care of as
              you
              stated in St. Louis. However, he wasn't stationed there; he was
              stationed at Ft. Riley, Kansas. He passed through St. Louis on
              his way
              to DC to get a patent on a sabre release he had invented which he
              sold
              to the War Dept for $5000.
              >
              > Teej

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • barringer63
              ... difference. ... Not for the same reason as yours, of course, but it may surprise you to know that H.B. McClellan agreed with you somewhat. He wrote that
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                >
                > Based on his performance in Maryland in 1862, I don't see how Stuart's
                > presence with the AoNV in Pennsylvania would have made much of a
                difference.
                >
                > Seriously.

                Not for the same reason as yours, of course, but it may surprise you
                to know that H.B. McClellan agreed with you somewhat. He wrote that
                even if Stuart had been able to communicate with Lee after the 30th, it
                was doubtful that it would have made any difference in the outcome of
                the battle of Gettysburg.

                Teej
              • Stephen Recker
                Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle of Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING? (Apologies to A. Lincoln) Stephen
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                  Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle of
                  Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

                  (Apologies to A. Lincoln)

                  Stephen

                  On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 11:13 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                  > but I wonder if he was suffering from battle fatigue
                  > from the strenuous demands of the just completed 2nd Manassas
                  > campaign against Pope?
                • eighth_conn_inf
                  Now take Wade Hampton--there s a cavalry general! LHF ... of
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                    Now take Wade Hampton--there's a cavalry general!

                    LHF

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
                    of
                    > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?
                    >
                    > (Apologies to A. Lincoln)
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                    > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 11:13 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                    >
                    > > but I wonder if he was suffering from battle fatigue
                    > > from the strenuous demands of the just completed 2nd Manassas
                    > > campaign against Pope?
                    >
                  • barringer63
                    ... of ... As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on Bev
                    Message 9 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                      Stephen Recker wrote:
                      >
                      > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
                      of
                      > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

                      As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
                      crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
                      Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
                      physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
                      well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
                      been. :-)

                      Teej
                      >
                    • G E Mayers
                      Dear Stephen, If you have read Harsh s Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is a discussion there about Stuart s involvement in that campaign as well as the Ox
                      Message 10 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                        Dear Stephen,

                        If you have read Harsh's Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is
                        a discussion there about Stuart's involvement in that campaign as
                        well as the Ox Hill battle. That might help answer your question,
                        with apologies to Mr Lincoln.

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:01 PM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] CWDG


                        > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the
                        > Battle of
                        > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?
                        >
                        > (Apologies to A. Lincoln)
                        >
                        > Stephen
                        >
                        > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 11:13 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                        >
                        >> but I wonder if he was suffering from battle fatigue
                        >> from the strenuous demands of the just completed 2nd Manassas
                        >> campaign against Pope?
                        >
                        >
                      • barringer63
                        ... David Welker, author of Tempest at Ox Hill: The Battle of Chantilly wrote that if Lee hadn t been distracted by more important battles like 2nd Manassas
                        Message 11 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                          Gerry Mayers wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Stephen,
                          >
                          > If you have read Harsh's Confederate Tide Rising, IIRC, there is
                          > a discussion there about Stuart's involvement in that campaign as
                          > well as the Ox Hill battle. That might help answer your question,
                          > with apologies to Mr Lincoln.

                          David Welker, author of "Tempest at Ox Hill: The Battle of
                          Chantilly" wrote that if Lee hadn't been distracted by more important
                          battles like 2nd Manassas and Antietam, it's very likely Stuart would
                          have been brought up on charges of "dereliction of duty" for his
                          abysmal performance at Ox Hill. Personally, I'm surprised Jackson
                          didn't have Stuart shot.

                          Teej
                          >
                        • richard@rcroker.com
                          I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In fact - I d ALMOST bet the ranch. ... From: barringer63 To:
                          Message 12 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: barringer63
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:47 PM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


                            Stephen Recker wrote:
                            >
                            > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
                            of
                            > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

                            As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
                            crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
                            Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
                            physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
                            well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
                            been. :-)

                            Teej
                            >





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Stephen Recker
                            Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-) -sjr On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM,
                            Message 13 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                              Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-)

                              -sjr

                              On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM, <richard@...>
                              wrote:

                              > I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II.
                              > In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
                            • richard@rcroker.com
                              Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes appologies. Had I paid more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without hesitation that the
                              Message 14 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                                Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes appologies. Had I paid more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                                As always, your obdient servant,

                                Richard Croker
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Stephen Recker
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:24 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


                                Yes, I know. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very funny one ;-)

                                -sjr

                                On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:00 PM, <richard@...>
                                wrote:

                                > I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II.
                                > In fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Harry Smeltzer
                                It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke - sorry, Steve! ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Message 15 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
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                                  It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                                  sorry, Steve!



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of richard@...
                                  Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:01 PM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                                  I believe that Lincoln quotation regarded Antietam -- not Manassas II. In
                                  fact - I'd ALMOST bet the ranch.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: barringer63
                                  To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:47 PM
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

                                  Stephen Recker wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Would you mind telling me what his horses had done since the Battle
                                  of
                                  > Second Mannassas that would fatigue ANYTHING?

                                  As I recall, Stuart spent most of his time from 2nd Manassas until
                                  crossing the Potomac to kick off the Antietam Campaign riding herd on
                                  Bev Robertson. Now, while that wouldn't necessarily have been
                                  physically challenging, if you know anything about Robertson, you can
                                  well imagine how mentally and emotionally draining that must have
                                  been. :-)

                                  Teej
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Stephen Recker
                                  ... In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with gladness, and I will work on my material as well. Interesting about that Lincoln
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Dec 20, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I paid
                                    > more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without
                                    > hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                                    On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                                    > It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                                    > sorry, Steve!

                                    In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with
                                    gladness, and I will work on my material as well.

                                    Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both sides
                                    after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty decent
                                    case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that would cause
                                    them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding around
                                    Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                                    early-September performance?

                                    Stephen Recker
                                    Historical Humorist
                                  • Harry Smeltzer
                                    Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty much apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has been interpreted as examples
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty much
                                      apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has been
                                      interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic wit can be
                                      more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of military
                                      realities.

                                      Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!

                                      Harry



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                                      Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                                      > Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I paid
                                      > more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known without
                                      > hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please accept.

                                      On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                                      > It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL a joke -
                                      > sorry, Steve!

                                      In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind words with
                                      gladness, and I will work on my material as well.

                                      Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both sides
                                      after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty decent
                                      case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that would cause
                                      them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding around
                                      Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                                      early-September performance?

                                      Stephen Recker
                                      Historical Humorist





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • G E Mayers
                                      Dear Harry, How about both factors at work? What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Dear Harry,

                                        How about both factors at work?

                                        What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the
                                        mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                                        particularly generals like Butterfield and Sickles, and the
                                        distrust of the volunteers (in general) for West Point trained
                                        officers.

                                        Recall the famous scene in THE movie where the private from the
                                        Second Maine is talking to Chamberlain???

                                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:52 AM
                                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG


                                        > Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty
                                        > much
                                        > apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has
                                        > been
                                        > interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic
                                        > wit can be
                                        > more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of
                                        > military
                                        > realities.
                                        >
                                        > Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!
                                        >
                                        > Harry
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                                        > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                                        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >> Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I
                                        >> paid
                                        >> more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known
                                        >> without
                                        >> hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please
                                        >> accept.
                                        >
                                        > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer
                                        > wrote:
                                        >
                                        >> It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL
                                        >> a joke -
                                        >> sorry, Steve!
                                        >
                                        > In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind
                                        > words with
                                        > gladness, and I will work on my material as well.
                                        >
                                        > Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both
                                        > sides
                                        > after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty
                                        > decent
                                        > case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that
                                        > would cause
                                        > them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding
                                        > around
                                        > Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                                        > early-September performance?
                                        >
                                        > Stephen Recker
                                        > Historical Humorist
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Harry Smeltzer
                                        Well, Gerry, that IS a movie. And I think there were other things about Butterfield and Sickles that West Pointers disliked aside from their alma maters. I
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Dec 21, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Well, Gerry, that IS a movie.

                                          And I think there were other things about Butterfield and Sickles that West
                                          Pointers disliked aside from their alma maters.

                                          I think that distrust of amateurs by professionals is prevalent in any
                                          profession, be it the military, the law, medicine, accounting, plumbing,
                                          welding, you name it.

                                          Harry



                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of G E Mayers
                                          Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:04 AM
                                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG



                                          Dear Harry,

                                          How about both factors at work?

                                          What I find so interesting, especially in the AoP, is the
                                          mistrust of the West Pointers for the volunteer officers,
                                          particularly generals like Butterfield and Sickles, and the
                                          distrust of the volunteers (in general) for West Point trained
                                          officers.

                                          Recall the famous scene in THE movie where the private from the
                                          Second Maine is talking to Chamberlain???

                                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@comcast. <mailto:hjs21%40comcast.net> net>
                                          To: <TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:52 AM
                                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG

                                          > Though it seldom gets mentioned, Lincoln backed down and pretty
                                          > much
                                          > apologized to McClellan for that letter. Sometimes what has
                                          > been
                                          > interpreted as examples of Lincoln's deep insight and acerbic
                                          > wit can be
                                          > more accurately described as a serious lack of understanding of
                                          > military
                                          > realities.
                                          >
                                          > Don't tell Doris I said that - she'll send a hit squad!
                                          >
                                          > Harry
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          yahoogroups.com
                                          > [mailto:TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          yahoogroups.com] On
                                          > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                                          > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 11:33 PM
                                          > To: TalkAntietam@ <mailto:TalkAntietam%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: CWDG
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >> Actually, my kind sir, I am the one who owes apologies. Had I
                                          >> paid
                                          >> more attention to the signature (yours) I would have known
                                          >> without
                                          >> hesitation that the comment was intended in jest. Please
                                          >> accept.
                                          >
                                          > On Thursday, December 20, 2007, at 09:43 PM, Harry Smeltzer
                                          > wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> It also regarded McClellan and not Lee.wow, we can really KILL
                                          >> a joke -
                                          >> sorry, Steve!
                                          >
                                          > In the spirit of the season I will accept all of these kind
                                          > words with
                                          > gladness, and I will work on my material as well.
                                          >
                                          > Interesting about that Lincoln quote, and the cavalry of both
                                          > sides
                                          > after Antietam. Ethan Rafuse's "McClellan's War" makes a pretty
                                          > decent
                                          > case for what Mac's cavalry was doing after the battle that
                                          > would cause
                                          > them fatigue- they were chasing after Jeb Stuart who was riding
                                          > around
                                          > Mac's army. Perhaps Stuart was trying to make up for his poor
                                          > early-September performance?
                                          >
                                          > Stephen Recker
                                          > Historical Humorist
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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