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Re: Burnside's Bridge

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  • James W. Durney
    We are the Suncoast Civil war Society of Tampa/St. Pete. ... are ... of
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 22, 2007
      We are the Suncoast Civil war Society of Tampa/St. Pete.

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I can proboably find a copy of it if I do some digging. Which CWRT
      are
      > you referencing?
      >
      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
      >
      > >>> "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...> 11/21/07 3:11 PM >>>
      > Professor Clemens, is it possible to get a copy of the artical you
      > wrote on Burnside's Bridge? We want to debate the subject at one
      of
      > our Round Table meetings.
      >
      > Thank you
      >
      > James Durney
      >
    • James W. Durney
      ... young ... best ... My wife was very happy with the outlet mall north of the park.
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 22, 2007
        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have an upcoming tour with a family of four - mom, dad and two
        young
        > girls, nine and eleven. I am looking for suggestions as to how to
        best
        > entertain them. Any great stories or interpretive techniques come to
        > mind? Thanks.
        >
        > Have a great Turkey Day!
        >
        > Stephen
        >

        My wife was very happy with the outlet mall north of the park.
      • G E Mayers
        The outlet mall, IIRC, is in Hagerstown, not close to Sharpsburg. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 22, 2007
          The outlet mall, IIRC, is in Hagerstown, not close to Sharpsburg.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 1:53 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Young Guns


          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I have an upcoming tour with a family of four - mom, dad and
          > two
          young
          > girls, nine and eleven. I am looking for suggestions as to how
          > to
          best
          > entertain them. Any great stories or interpretive techniques
          > come to
          > mind? Thanks.
          >
          > Have a great Turkey Day!
          >
          > Stephen
          >

          My wife was very happy with the outlet mall north of the park.
        • Stephen Recker
          Thanks., Stephen BTW, the outlets are not that far from Sharpsburg.
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 22, 2007
            Thanks.,

            Stephen

            BTW, the outlets are not that far from Sharpsburg.

            On Thursday, November 22, 2007, at 08:25 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

            > How about a Clara Barton story or two? Or some civilian stories from
            > the families most involved?
            >
          • Thomas Clemens
            Hi Stephen, I think Carman is accurate. Without doing a lot of digging, the Artillery Reserve, attached ot the Fifth Corps, had 7 batteries, 42 guns, and 16
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 23, 2007
              Hi Stephen,
              I think Carman is accurate. Without doing a lot of digging, the
              Artillery Reserve, attached ot the Fifth Corps, had 7 batteries, 42
              guns, and 16 of them were 20 lbs. Parrotts. 12 were Napoleons and out
              of range, and a couple of Fifth Corps batteries may have helped out, but
              not enough to make it 75 guns. Two batteries of 20 lbs. Parrotts (12
              guns) from Twelfth Corps also were there making it 28 long range guns.
              Maybe that number can be arrived upon by adding the Ninth Corps guns
              farther south along the bluffs? Some of them were "long range" but not
              many. Benjamin's had 20 lbs Parrotts, but only 2 I think.


              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College


              >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 11/22/07 8:43 AM >>>
              I have always thought that Little Mac had 75 long-range guns lined up
              on the east side of Antietam Creek. I just read in Carman that he had
              only 46. Am I getting my apples and oranges mixed up? Thanks.

              Stephen
            • Joseph Pierro
              Stephen: I can t say Carman s numbers are correct to the gun, but the lower figure appears to be closer to the mark in terms of true long-range artillery in
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 23, 2007
                Stephen:

                I can't say Carman's numbers are correct to the gun, but the lower figure appears to be closer to the mark in terms of true "long-range" artillery in McClellan's arsenal.

                A fair number of early accounts assume that every battery known to be on the far side of the creek was there because it could hit the Confederates at that distance, thus conflating "long range" with "happened to be parked east of Antietam creek." (Some are actually nothing more than unengaged batteries of Napoleons). Those higher numbers filtered into a number of subsequent histories, which may be where you're getting 75 guns.

                --jake


                >>> Stephen Recker <recker@virtualgetty sburg.com> 11/22/07 8:43 AM >>>
                I have always thought that Little Mac had 75 long-range guns lined up
                on the east side of Antietam Creek. I just read in Carman that he had
                only 46. Am I getting my apples and oranges mixed up? Thanks.

                Stephen





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              • James W. Durney
                ... I didn t do more than pull in to drop off/pick up. IIRC, the mall was just off the interstate and a short drive to the NBP.
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 23, 2007
                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The outlet mall, IIRC, is in Hagerstown, not close to Sharpsburg.
                  >
                  >

                  I didn't do more than pull in to drop off/pick up. IIRC, the mall was
                  just off the interstate and a short drive to the NBP.
                • bdowney@aotw.org
                  Hi Stephen, You ve had some good answers already. I did a little digging at the battery level in the Federal Fifth (V) and Ninth (IX) Corps for 17 September.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 23, 2007
                    Hi Stephen,
                    You've had some good answers already.

                    I did a little digging at the battery level in the Federal Fifth (V)
                    and Ninth (IX) Corps for 17 September. Most of my data is as
                    collated by Johnson and Anderson (Artillery Hell, 1995) with
                    occasional updates from other sources. Locations are per Carman's
                    maps (Atlas of the Battlefield of Antietam - online at the LoC).

                    The bulk of the long range pieces along the ridge east of the
                    Antietam opposite Sharpsburg were of the V Corps Artillery Reserve.
                    Others of the V Corps Divisional artillery were also present and had
                    range and sight of much of the the battlefield north of the town,
                    particularly the plateau just east of the Dunkard Church - as you
                    know, a key spot on the battlefield occupied by considerable
                    Confederate artillery early in the day.

                    Some of the artillery of the IX Corps in the vicinity of the Lower
                    Bridge could also reach Confederate artillery positions, notably
                    concentrations on the high ground south of Sharpsburg and on Cemetery
                    Hill east of the town.

                    Other Federal artillery units were also placed, at least for part of
                    the day on the 17th, east of the creek, but were not significantly
                    deployed or engaged from there. These would include guns of the
                    Second and Sixth Corps, and Pleasonton's Horse artillery (soon
                    ordered across the creek). I have not included them here.

                    The real heavy hitters, as shown on several of Carman's maps, were
                    batteries of V Corps deployed along the crest of the ridge
                    immediately east of the creek on either side of the Boonsboro Pike as
                    it crosses the Middle Bridge. They were -- from north to south --
                    Wever, Lagner, Martin, Hazlett, Waterman, and Kusserow north of the
                    bridge, and Von Kleiser, Weed, and Taft to the south. Also south of
                    the pike, but further removed to the east and effectively out of
                    action were the remaining V Corps batteries of Randol, Weed, and Van
                    Reed.

                    Among these V Corps units were 16 big 20-pounder Parrots, and another
                    8 rifled guns: 10-pounder Parrots and 3-inch Ordnance Rifles. A total
                    of 24 guns I'd characterize as long-range. Mixed in were 36 various
                    smoothbores (Napoleons, mostly).

                    Continuing along the creek from where we left off were the IX Corps
                    batteries of Clark and Simmonds. At least during the morning, the
                    batteries of Durell, Cook, Benjamin, Muhlenberg, Roemer, and McMullen
                    completed the line of Federal artillery roughly following the east
                    bank of the Antietam.

                    Simmonds and Benjamin between them boasted the other 6 20-pound
                    Parrots at Antietam. Also in the IX Corps were 33 smaller rifled
                    guns for a total of 39 long range pieces. The infantry was also
                    supported by about 15 smoothbores.

                    For what it's worth, then, I count about 63 long range guns east of
                    the creek til at least 1pm. Certainly, not all were engaged or had
                    targets all day, so you can make of the count what you will.

                    Apples and oranges, by battery, are shown below:

                    Battery Guns Number

                    V Corps Arty Reserve - ridgeline vcty Middle Bridge

                    Wever (1st Bn NY Light, Btty A) 20lb Parrott 4
                    von Kleiser (1st Bn NY Light, Btty B) 20lb Parrott 4
                    Langner (1st Bn NY Light, Btty C) 20lb Parrott 4
                    Kusserow (1st Bn NY Light, Btty D) 32lb Hwzr 6
                    Graham (1st US, Btty K) Napoleon 4
                    Miller (4th US, Btty G) Napoleon 6
                    Taft (NY Light, 5th Btty) 20lb Parrott 4

                    2nd Div, V Corps Arty - south of Middle Bridge
                    Randol (1st US, Btty E&G) Napoleon 4
                    Weed (5th US, Btty I) 3in Ord Rifle 4
                    VanReed (5th US, Btty K) - crossed w/Regulars Napoleon 4

                    1st Div, V Corps Arty (any cross Antietam?)
                    Waterman (1st RI Light, Btty C) Napoleon 6
                    Hazlett (5th US, Btty D) w/Corps Resv Arty Napoleon 2, 10lb Parrott
                    4
                    Martin (MA Light, Btty C) Napoleon 4

                    ________________
                    totals V Corps, East of Antietam

                    20 pound Parrots (rifled, big) 16
                    10 pound Parrots, 3 in Ord Rifles (rifled) 8
                    __
                    ..... subtotal, long-range pieces 24

                    Napoleons, howitzers, other smoothbores 36
                    __
                    ..... total, V Corps pieces 60

                    IX Corps - near Lower Bridge (some Bttys crossed PM)

                    Edwards (3rd US, Btty L&M) 10lb Parrott 4
                    Roemer (2nd NY, Btty L) 3in Ord Rifle 6

                    1st Div, IX Corps
                    Benjamin (2nd US, Btty E) 20lb Parrott 4
                    Cook (MA Lt, 8th Btty) 12lb James 4, 12lb Hwzr 2

                    2nd Div, IX Corps
                    Clark (4th US, Btty E) 10lb Parrott 4
                    Durell (PA Lt, Btty D) 10lb Parrott 6

                    3rd Div, IX Corps
                    Whiting (9 NY Inf, Co K) Naval Hwzr 6
                    Muhlenberg (5th US, Btty A) Napoleon 6

                    Kanawha Division, IX Corps
                    McMullin (OH Lt, 1st Btty) 14lb James 6
                    Simmonds (KY Lt, Simmond's) 20lb Parrott 2, 10lb Parrott 3, 12lb
                    Hwzr 1
                    ________________
                    totals IX Corps, East of Antietam (1/2 day)

                    20 pound Parrots (rifled, big) 6
                    10 pound Parrots, 3 in Ord Rifles, James (rifled) 33
                    __
                    ..... subtotal, long-range pieces 39

                    Napoleons, howitzers, other smoothbores 15
                    __
                    ..... total, IX Corps pieces 54


                    >
                    > I have always thought that Little Mac had 75 long-range guns lined up
                    > on the east side of Antietam Creek. I just read in Carman that he had
                    > only 46. Am I getting my apples and oranges mixed up? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                  • Stephen Recker
                    Thanks. You guys are amazing. I ll print this all out and try to digest it. Cheers, Stephen
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 23, 2007
                      Thanks. You guys are amazing. I'll print this all out and try to digest
                      it.

                      Cheers,
                      Stephen
                    • Stephen Recker
                      The tour went fine. The two young girls were very bright and easy to engage. And we didn t even need to drop mom at the outlet mall! Thanks for the input.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 23, 2007
                        The tour went fine. The two young girls were very bright and easy to
                        engage. And we didn't even need to drop mom at the outlet mall! Thanks
                        for the input.

                        Stephen
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