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[TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Hmmm, good question. Doug has his war-time diary, but does not share it. I wouldn t either, but it would be neat to see a bio of him. Enough people had
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 20 11:36 AM
      Hmmm, good question. Doug has his war-time diary, but does not share
      it. I wouldn't either, but it would be neat to see a bio of him.
      Enough people had exposed the tall tales in his book to warrant a
      revision of him in the war.


      Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College



      >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 11/20/2007 2:14 PM
      >>>
      I've always found it interesting that no one has written a biography
      of HKD. Are there insufficient materials about him to justify a book
      or is it something else other than lack of interest of a writer?

      Larry F.


      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > For what it is worth,
      > When I was hired here in 1978 I met an older fellow who told me that
      > HKD used to stroll through north end of Hagerstown in the evenings
      with
      > a rose clenched between his teeth so that everyone would recognize
      that
      > he was a gentleman! The person who knows the most about HKD and
      has a
      > number of his possessions is Doug Bast in Boonsboro. he owns the
      > Boonsboro Museum of History on Main Street and some of the HKD
      artifacts
      > are there. You might want to get in touch with him for details of
      his
      > life.
      >
      >
      > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
    • barringer63
      ... share ... Well, if someone is on this group is contemplating such a task this is available at Perkins Library, Duke University, Durham, NC Teej Description
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 20 12:19 PM
        Tom Clemens wrote:
        >
        > Hmmm, good question. Doug has his war-time diary, but does not
        share
        > it. I wouldn't either, but it would be neat to see a bio of him.
        > Enough people had exposed the tall tales in his book to warrant a
        > revision of him in the war.

        Well, if someone is on this group is contemplating such a task this
        is available at Perkins Library, Duke University, Durham, NC

        Teej


        Description 32 items.
        History notes Confederate soldier.
        Summary Civil War letters from Henry Kyd Douglas to Helen Macomb
        Boteler describing in detail military movements and camp life,
        including the battles of Cross Keys, 1862; Port Republic, 1862; and
        Fredericksburg, 1862, all in Virginia. Several of the letters were
        written from the Union military prison on Johnson's Island, near
        Sandusky, Ohio.

        >

        >
      • Joseph Pierro
        Probably a little bit of both. As others have already stated, there are some manuscripts out there for researchers to use, but I m not sure there s enough
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 20 2:27 PM
          Probably a little bit of both. As others have already stated, there are some manuscripts out there for researchers to use, but I'm not sure there's enough material regarding his life (as opposed to what he witnessed--or claimed to have witnessed) to support a full-length treatment. It would probably turn into an annotated version of "I Rode with Stonewall," with the author confirming or refuting various anecdotes.

          I'd be surprised if someone hasn't tackled already him in a journal article at some point, though. I KNOW I've seen biographical pieces in the CW mags over the years.

          --jake

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:14:19 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


          I've always found it interesting that no one has written a biography
          of HKD. Are there insufficient materials about him to justify a book
          or is it something else other than lack of interest of a writer?

          Larry F.




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        • david lutton
          The two stories concerning HKD that I offen wonder about if true incidents or otherwise were: 1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 20 3:31 PM
            The two stories concerning HKD that I offen wonder about if true incidents or otherwise were:
            1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo of himself in his confederate uniform. If my memory is correct...to impress a lady friend.
            2. He is said to have assisted John Brown when his wagon was stuck in the Potomac below his family homestead I guess in 1859?

            Are these true accounts or fiction?

            When we stay over in Shepherdstown, we usually stay at the Clarion Motel, and as I pass HKD's graveyard my mind often turns to this very interesting character.

            David Lutton
            Hollidaysburg Pa




            David Lutton
            Hollidaysburg Pa
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Thomas Clemens
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:36 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


            Hmmm, good question. Doug has his war-time diary, but does not share
            it. I wouldn't either, but it would be neat to see a bio of him.
            Enough people had exposed the tall tales in his book to warrant a
            revision of him in the war.

            Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College

            >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 11/20/2007 2:14 PM
            >>>
            I've always found it interesting that no one has written a biography
            of HKD. Are there insufficient materials about him to justify a book
            or is it something else other than lack of interest of a writer?

            Larry F.

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > For what it is worth,
            > When I was hired here in 1978 I met an older fellow who told me that
            > HKD used to stroll through north end of Hagerstown in the evenings
            with
            > a rose clenched between his teeth so that everyone would recognize
            that
            > he was a gentleman! The person who knows the most about HKD and
            has a
            > number of his possessions is Doug Bast in Boonsboro. he owns the
            > Boonsboro Museum of History on Main Street and some of the HKD
            artifacts
            > are there. You might want to get in touch with him for details of
            his
            > life.
            >
            >
            > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
            > Professor of History
            > Hagerstown Community College
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen Recker
            I think this was in Washington DC. Stephen
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 20 6:39 PM
              I think this was in Washington DC.

              Stephen

              On Tuesday, November 20, 2007, at 06:31 PM, david lutton wrote:

              > 1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo of
              > himself in his confederate uniform. If my memory is correct...to
              > impress a lady friend.
            • Joseph Pierro
              I hope someone someday does a detailed study of HDK s memoir in its entirety. The conventional wisdom is that the entire thing is a pack of lies. John Gordon s
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 20 6:43 PM
                I hope someone someday does a detailed study of HDK's memoir in its entirety. The conventional wisdom is that the entire thing is a pack of lies. John Gordon's memoirs have the same rep in many circles, but I found when I've examined portions of it that Gordon tended to be telling the truth -- in the essentials. Too many people throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, there is a good deal of exaggerating (as is true of 99% of memoirs) but like so much else else, if you read it with a critical eye it can be a valuable source.

                I wonder if a comprehensive examination of I Rode with Stonewall wouldn't conclude the same thing.

                --jake

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: david lutton <dunkerch@...>
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:31:58 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General

                The two stories concerning HKD that I offen wonder about if true incidents or otherwise were:
                1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo of himself in his confederate uniform. If my memory is correct...to impress a lady friend.
                2. He is said to have assisted John Brown when his wagon was stuck in the Potomac below his family homestead I guess in 1859?

                Are these true accounts or fiction?

                When we stay over in Shepherdstown, we usually stay at the Clarion Motel, and as I pass HKD's graveyard my mind often turns to this very interesting character.

                David Lutton
                Hollidaysburg Pa

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              • barringer63
                ... In Douglas obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote, After the war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in uniform and put in close
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 20 7:16 PM
                  Stephen Recker wrote:
                  >
                  > I think this was in Washington DC.

                  In Douglas' obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote,"After the
                  war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in
                  uniform and put in close confinement at Martinsburg, West Va. He was
                  sentenced to Fort Delaware for three months and on the way was taken
                  to Washington and confined in the penitentiary with Mrs. Surratt and
                  others on suspicion that he knew something about the assassination of
                  President Lincoln. He was soon released, the charge being unfounded,
                  and after serving out his sentence, was released in September, 1865,
                  and has since practiced law in Virginia and Maryland, serving as
                  Attorney General of Maryland and Judge of the Fifth Judicial
                  Circuit." The article also says that Douglas was suffering
                  from "mental trouble" at the time of his death.

                  Regards,
                  Teej
                  >
                • Thomas Clemens
                  He also was active and commanded, I think, the MD Nat l. Guard. Or was he the JAG for it? Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 20 9:11 PM
                    He also was active and commanded, I think, the MD Nat'l. Guard. Or was
                    he the JAG for it?

                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> "barringer63" <teej@...> 11/20/07 10:16 PM >>>
                    Stephen Recker wrote:
                    >
                    > I think this was in Washington DC.

                    In Douglas' obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote,"After the
                    war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in
                    uniform and put in close confinement at Martinsburg, West Va. He was
                    sentenced to Fort Delaware for three months and on the way was taken
                    to Washington and confined in the penitentiary with Mrs. Surratt and
                    others on suspicion that he knew something about the assassination of
                    President Lincoln. He was soon released, the charge being unfounded,
                    and after serving out his sentence, was released in September, 1865,
                    and has since practiced law in Virginia and Maryland, serving as
                    Attorney General of Maryland and Judge of the Fifth Judicial
                    Circuit." The article also says that Douglas was suffering
                    from "mental trouble" at the time of his death.

                    Regards,
                    Teej
                    >
                  • Stephen Recker
                    He sounds like quite the ladie s man. Stephen Nov 3, 1888 Messrs. H. Kyd Douglas and Charles Little addressed a large audience in the town hall on Saturday
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 20 9:26 PM
                      He sounds like quite the ladie's man.

                      Stephen

                      Nov 3, 1888 Messrs. H. Kyd Douglas and Charles Little addressed a large
                      audience in the town hall on Saturday evening, Oct. 27. Mr. Douglas
                      spoke about an hour. He was presented with some beautiful bouquets of
                      flowers by the ladies, who seemed to be very much pleased with
                      him.---He is a bachelor. After tendering his thanks to the gentlemen
                      managers of the stage, and expressing his appreciation for the ladies’
                      gifts, he started for the train. But part of the conveyance refused to
                      act; so the Col. did not get to the train that night. We don’t know
                      what was the cause of this accident. I don’t think it was the weight,
                      although it might have been the case. He did not have his coffee pots
                      with him we are positive, so you can’t blame it on them. The Col.
                      Remained in our town until Sunday noon.
                    • barringer63
                      ... Indeed. According to the obit I posted, there was a rumor going around in the late 1880s, early 1890s that Douglas was engaged to Nllie Grant Sartoris,
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 20 9:46 PM
                        Stephen Recker wrote:
                        >
                        > He sounds like quite the ladie's man.

                        Indeed. According to the obit I posted, there was a rumor going
                        around in the late 1880s, early 1890s that Douglas was engaged to Nllie
                        Grant Sartoris, yep, THAT Grant. The paper went on to say that neither
                        Douglas nor Mrs. Sartoris bothered to deny the rumor.

                        Teej
                      • Joseph Pierro
                        According to his entry in More Generals in Gray, he served as Maryland s AG for four years, beginning in 1892. --jake ... From: Thomas Clemens
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 21 7:34 AM
                          According to his entry in More Generals in Gray, he served as Maryland's AG for four years, beginning in 1892.

                          --jake



                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...>
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:11:44 AM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General

                          He also was active and commanded, I think, the MD Nat'l. Guard. Or was
                          he the JAG for it?

                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College

                          >>> "barringer63" <teej@...> 11/20/07 10:16 PM >>>
                          Stephen Recker wrote:
                          >
                          > I think this was in Washington DC.

                          In Douglas' obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote,"After the
                          war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in
                          uniform and put in close confinement at Martinsburg, West Va. He was
                          sentenced to Fort Delaware for three months and on the way was taken
                          to Washington and confined in the penitentiary with Mrs. Surratt and
                          others on suspicion that he knew something about the assassination of
                          President Lincoln. He was soon released, the charge being unfounded,
                          and after serving out his sentence, was released in September, 1865,
                          and has since practiced law in Virginia and Maryland, serving as
                          Attorney General of Maryland and Judge of the Fifth Judicial
                          Circuit." The article also says that Douglas was suffering
                          from "mental trouble" at the time of his death.

                          Regards,
                          Teej
                          >





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                        • richard@rcroker.com
                          I m speaking to the 60th GA reenactment group next week. Any of you guys got any tales of them at Antietam? My ggrandaddy called them The Paulding (County)
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 21 7:52 AM
                            I'm speaking to the 60th GA reenactment group next week. Any of you guys got any tales of them at Antietam? My ggrandaddy called them "The Paulding (County) Rifles."


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: barringer63
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:16 PM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


                            Stephen Recker wrote:
                            >
                            > I think this was in Washington DC.

                            In Douglas' obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote,"After the
                            war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in
                            uniform and put in close confinement at Martinsburg, West Va. He was
                            sentenced to Fort Delaware for three months and on the way was taken
                            to Washington and confined in the penitentiary with Mrs. Surratt and
                            others on suspicion that he knew something about the assassination of
                            President Lincoln. He was soon released, the charge being unfounded,
                            and after serving out his sentence, was released in September, 1865,
                            and has since practiced law in Virginia and Maryland, serving as
                            Attorney General of Maryland and Judge of the Fifth Judicial
                            Circuit." The article also says that Douglas was suffering
                            from "mental trouble" at the time of his death.

                            Regards,
                            Teej
                            >





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • richard@rcroker.com
                            Heck Jake -- that s true of the OR. I followed up some of Gordon s stories when writing To Make Men Free, and the father/son episode he talked about seems to
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 21 7:57 AM
                              Heck Jake -- that's true of the OR. I followed up some of Gordon's stories when writing To Make Men Free, and the father/son episode he talked about seems to be authentic. The words ("My son is gone, and I am soon to follow, but it is okay") may be an elaborate memory, but the Johnson's both died in the Lane. FYI of the nit pickers among you -- the preceeding quotation is from my own memory. If you insist I'll look it up, but please don't insist.


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Stephen Recker
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:39 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


                              I think this was in Washington DC.

                              Stephen

                              On Tuesday, November 20, 2007, at 06:31 PM, david lutton wrote:

                              > 1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo of
                              > himself in his confederate uniform. If my memory is correct...to
                              > impress a lady friend.





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • James W. Durney
                              Professor Clemens, is it possible to get a copy of the artical you wrote on Burnside s Bridge? We want to debate the subject at one of our Round Table
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 21 12:11 PM
                                Professor Clemens, is it possible to get a copy of the artical you
                                wrote on Burnside's Bridge? We want to debate the subject at one of
                                our Round Table meetings.

                                Thank you

                                James Durney
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