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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General

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  • G E Mayers
    Doug Bast has JKD s Diary, which would be a big help and not only has he sealed it,he will not allow anyone to look at it...from what I recall being told. Yr.
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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      Doug Bast has JKD's Diary, which would be a big help and not only
      has he sealed it,he will not allow anyone to look at it...from
      what I recall being told.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:14 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


      I've always found it interesting that no one has written a
      biography
      of HKD. Are there insufficient materials about him to justify a
      book
      or is it something else other than lack of interest of a writer?

      Larry F.


      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
      <clemenst@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > For what it is worth,
      > When I was hired here in 1978 I met an older fellow who told me
      > that
      > HKD used to stroll through north end of Hagerstown in the
      > evenings
      with
      > a rose clenched between his teeth so that everyone would
      > recognize
      that
      > he was a gentleman! The person who knows the most about HKD
      > and
      has a
      > number of his possessions is Doug Bast in Boonsboro. he owns
      > the
      > Boonsboro Museum of History on Main Street and some of the HKD
      artifacts
      > are there. You might want to get in touch with him for details
      > of
      his
      > life.
      >
      >
      > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
      > Professor of History
      > Hagerstown Community College
      >
    • Marc73@aol.com
      If that is the case it is a shame. The diary could be transcribed and the transcription sold by the musuem and the owner of the dairy would still have the
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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        If that is the case it is a shame. The diary could be transcribed and the transcription sold by the musuem and the owner of the dairy would still have the original. About 10 years ago I discovered at the Lycoming County Historical Society in Pennsylvania?the dairies of a person in the signal corp during the civil war. I suggested to them?they be transcribed and they did, selling the transcribed diary booklet as a fund raiser.

        Marc Riddell


        -----Original Message-----
        From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 2:22 pm
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General






        Doug Bast has JKD's Diary, which would be a big help and not only
        has he sealed it,he will not allow anyone to look at it...from
        what I recall being told.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:14 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General

        I've always found it interesting that no one has written a
        biography
        of HKD. Are there insufficient materials about him to justify a
        book
        or is it something else other than lack of interest of a writer?

        Larry F.

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
        <clemenst@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > For what it is worth,
        > When I was hired here in 1978 I met an older fellow who told me
        > that
        > HKD used to stroll through north end of Hagerstown in the
        > evenings
        with
        > a rose clenched between his teeth so that everyone would
        > recognize
        that
        > he was a gentleman! The person who knows the most about HKD
        > and
        has a
        > number of his possessions is Doug Bast in Boonsboro. he owns
        > the
        > Boonsboro Museum of History on Main Street and some of the HKD
        artifacts
        > are there. You might want to get in touch with him for details
        > of
        his
        > life.
        >
        >
        > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
        > Professor of History
        > Hagerstown Community College
        >





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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Thomas Clemens
        Hmmm, good question. Doug has his war-time diary, but does not share it. I wouldn t either, but it would be neat to see a bio of him. Enough people had
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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          Hmmm, good question. Doug has his war-time diary, but does not share
          it. I wouldn't either, but it would be neat to see a bio of him.
          Enough people had exposed the tall tales in his book to warrant a
          revision of him in the war.


          Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College



          >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 11/20/2007 2:14 PM
          >>>
          I've always found it interesting that no one has written a biography
          of HKD. Are there insufficient materials about him to justify a book
          or is it something else other than lack of interest of a writer?

          Larry F.


          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > For what it is worth,
          > When I was hired here in 1978 I met an older fellow who told me that
          > HKD used to stroll through north end of Hagerstown in the evenings
          with
          > a rose clenched between his teeth so that everyone would recognize
          that
          > he was a gentleman! The person who knows the most about HKD and
          has a
          > number of his possessions is Doug Bast in Boonsboro. he owns the
          > Boonsboro Museum of History on Main Street and some of the HKD
          artifacts
          > are there. You might want to get in touch with him for details of
          his
          > life.
          >
          >
          > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
          > Professor of History
          > Hagerstown Community College
          >
        • barringer63
          ... share ... Well, if someone is on this group is contemplating such a task this is available at Perkins Library, Duke University, Durham, NC Teej Description
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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            Tom Clemens wrote:
            >
            > Hmmm, good question. Doug has his war-time diary, but does not
            share
            > it. I wouldn't either, but it would be neat to see a bio of him.
            > Enough people had exposed the tall tales in his book to warrant a
            > revision of him in the war.

            Well, if someone is on this group is contemplating such a task this
            is available at Perkins Library, Duke University, Durham, NC

            Teej


            Description 32 items.
            History notes Confederate soldier.
            Summary Civil War letters from Henry Kyd Douglas to Helen Macomb
            Boteler describing in detail military movements and camp life,
            including the battles of Cross Keys, 1862; Port Republic, 1862; and
            Fredericksburg, 1862, all in Virginia. Several of the letters were
            written from the Union military prison on Johnson's Island, near
            Sandusky, Ohio.

            >

            >
          • Joseph Pierro
            Probably a little bit of both. As others have already stated, there are some manuscripts out there for researchers to use, but I m not sure there s enough
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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              Probably a little bit of both. As others have already stated, there are some manuscripts out there for researchers to use, but I'm not sure there's enough material regarding his life (as opposed to what he witnessed--or claimed to have witnessed) to support a full-length treatment. It would probably turn into an annotated version of "I Rode with Stonewall," with the author confirming or refuting various anecdotes.

              I'd be surprised if someone hasn't tackled already him in a journal article at some point, though. I KNOW I've seen biographical pieces in the CW mags over the years.

              --jake

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:14:19 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


              I've always found it interesting that no one has written a biography
              of HKD. Are there insufficient materials about him to justify a book
              or is it something else other than lack of interest of a writer?

              Larry F.




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            • david lutton
              The two stories concerning HKD that I offen wonder about if true incidents or otherwise were: 1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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                The two stories concerning HKD that I offen wonder about if true incidents or otherwise were:
                1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo of himself in his confederate uniform. If my memory is correct...to impress a lady friend.
                2. He is said to have assisted John Brown when his wagon was stuck in the Potomac below his family homestead I guess in 1859?

                Are these true accounts or fiction?

                When we stay over in Shepherdstown, we usually stay at the Clarion Motel, and as I pass HKD's graveyard my mind often turns to this very interesting character.

                David Lutton
                Hollidaysburg Pa




                David Lutton
                Hollidaysburg Pa
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Thomas Clemens
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:36 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


                Hmmm, good question. Doug has his war-time diary, but does not share
                it. I wouldn't either, but it would be neat to see a bio of him.
                Enough people had exposed the tall tales in his book to warrant a
                revision of him in the war.

                Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College

                >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 11/20/2007 2:14 PM
                >>>
                I've always found it interesting that no one has written a biography
                of HKD. Are there insufficient materials about him to justify a book
                or is it something else other than lack of interest of a writer?

                Larry F.

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > For what it is worth,
                > When I was hired here in 1978 I met an older fellow who told me that
                > HKD used to stroll through north end of Hagerstown in the evenings
                with
                > a rose clenched between his teeth so that everyone would recognize
                that
                > he was a gentleman! The person who knows the most about HKD and
                has a
                > number of his possessions is Doug Bast in Boonsboro. he owns the
                > Boonsboro Museum of History on Main Street and some of the HKD
                artifacts
                > are there. You might want to get in touch with him for details of
                his
                > life.
                >
                >
                > Dr. Thomas G. Clemens
                > Professor of History
                > Hagerstown Community College
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephen Recker
                I think this was in Washington DC. Stephen
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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                  I think this was in Washington DC.

                  Stephen

                  On Tuesday, November 20, 2007, at 06:31 PM, david lutton wrote:

                  > 1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo of
                  > himself in his confederate uniform. If my memory is correct...to
                  > impress a lady friend.
                • Joseph Pierro
                  I hope someone someday does a detailed study of HDK s memoir in its entirety. The conventional wisdom is that the entire thing is a pack of lies. John Gordon s
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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                    I hope someone someday does a detailed study of HDK's memoir in its entirety. The conventional wisdom is that the entire thing is a pack of lies. John Gordon's memoirs have the same rep in many circles, but I found when I've examined portions of it that Gordon tended to be telling the truth -- in the essentials. Too many people throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, there is a good deal of exaggerating (as is true of 99% of memoirs) but like so much else else, if you read it with a critical eye it can be a valuable source.

                    I wonder if a comprehensive examination of I Rode with Stonewall wouldn't conclude the same thing.

                    --jake

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: david lutton <dunkerch@...>
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:31:58 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General

                    The two stories concerning HKD that I offen wonder about if true incidents or otherwise were:
                    1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo of himself in his confederate uniform. If my memory is correct...to impress a lady friend.
                    2. He is said to have assisted John Brown when his wagon was stuck in the Potomac below his family homestead I guess in 1859?

                    Are these true accounts or fiction?

                    When we stay over in Shepherdstown, we usually stay at the Clarion Motel, and as I pass HKD's graveyard my mind often turns to this very interesting character.

                    David Lutton
                    Hollidaysburg Pa

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                  • barringer63
                    ... In Douglas obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote, After the war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in uniform and put in close
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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                      Stephen Recker wrote:
                      >
                      > I think this was in Washington DC.

                      In Douglas' obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote,"After the
                      war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in
                      uniform and put in close confinement at Martinsburg, West Va. He was
                      sentenced to Fort Delaware for three months and on the way was taken
                      to Washington and confined in the penitentiary with Mrs. Surratt and
                      others on suspicion that he knew something about the assassination of
                      President Lincoln. He was soon released, the charge being unfounded,
                      and after serving out his sentence, was released in September, 1865,
                      and has since practiced law in Virginia and Maryland, serving as
                      Attorney General of Maryland and Judge of the Fifth Judicial
                      Circuit." The article also says that Douglas was suffering
                      from "mental trouble" at the time of his death.

                      Regards,
                      Teej
                      >
                    • Thomas Clemens
                      He also was active and commanded, I think, the MD Nat l. Guard. Or was he the JAG for it? Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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                        He also was active and commanded, I think, the MD Nat'l. Guard. Or was
                        he the JAG for it?

                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College


                        >>> "barringer63" <teej@...> 11/20/07 10:16 PM >>>
                        Stephen Recker wrote:
                        >
                        > I think this was in Washington DC.

                        In Douglas' obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote,"After the
                        war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in
                        uniform and put in close confinement at Martinsburg, West Va. He was
                        sentenced to Fort Delaware for three months and on the way was taken
                        to Washington and confined in the penitentiary with Mrs. Surratt and
                        others on suspicion that he knew something about the assassination of
                        President Lincoln. He was soon released, the charge being unfounded,
                        and after serving out his sentence, was released in September, 1865,
                        and has since practiced law in Virginia and Maryland, serving as
                        Attorney General of Maryland and Judge of the Fifth Judicial
                        Circuit." The article also says that Douglas was suffering
                        from "mental trouble" at the time of his death.

                        Regards,
                        Teej
                        >
                      • Stephen Recker
                        He sounds like quite the ladie s man. Stephen Nov 3, 1888 Messrs. H. Kyd Douglas and Charles Little addressed a large audience in the town hall on Saturday
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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                          He sounds like quite the ladie's man.

                          Stephen

                          Nov 3, 1888 Messrs. H. Kyd Douglas and Charles Little addressed a large
                          audience in the town hall on Saturday evening, Oct. 27. Mr. Douglas
                          spoke about an hour. He was presented with some beautiful bouquets of
                          flowers by the ladies, who seemed to be very much pleased with
                          him.---He is a bachelor. After tendering his thanks to the gentlemen
                          managers of the stage, and expressing his appreciation for the ladies’
                          gifts, he started for the train. But part of the conveyance refused to
                          act; so the Col. did not get to the train that night. We don’t know
                          what was the cause of this accident. I don’t think it was the weight,
                          although it might have been the case. He did not have his coffee pots
                          with him we are positive, so you can’t blame it on them. The Col.
                          Remained in our town until Sunday noon.
                        • barringer63
                          ... Indeed. According to the obit I posted, there was a rumor going around in the late 1880s, early 1890s that Douglas was engaged to Nllie Grant Sartoris,
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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                            Stephen Recker wrote:
                            >
                            > He sounds like quite the ladie's man.

                            Indeed. According to the obit I posted, there was a rumor going
                            around in the late 1880s, early 1890s that Douglas was engaged to Nllie
                            Grant Sartoris, yep, THAT Grant. The paper went on to say that neither
                            Douglas nor Mrs. Sartoris bothered to deny the rumor.

                            Teej
                          • Joseph Pierro
                            According to his entry in More Generals in Gray, he served as Maryland s AG for four years, beginning in 1892. --jake ... From: Thomas Clemens
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
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                              According to his entry in More Generals in Gray, he served as Maryland's AG for four years, beginning in 1892.

                              --jake



                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...>
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:11:44 AM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General

                              He also was active and commanded, I think, the MD Nat'l. Guard. Or was
                              he the JAG for it?

                              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                              Professor of History
                              Hagerstown Community College

                              >>> "barringer63" <teej@...> 11/20/07 10:16 PM >>>
                              Stephen Recker wrote:
                              >
                              > I think this was in Washington DC.

                              In Douglas' obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote,"After the
                              war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in
                              uniform and put in close confinement at Martinsburg, West Va. He was
                              sentenced to Fort Delaware for three months and on the way was taken
                              to Washington and confined in the penitentiary with Mrs. Surratt and
                              others on suspicion that he knew something about the assassination of
                              President Lincoln. He was soon released, the charge being unfounded,
                              and after serving out his sentence, was released in September, 1865,
                              and has since practiced law in Virginia and Maryland, serving as
                              Attorney General of Maryland and Judge of the Fifth Judicial
                              Circuit." The article also says that Douglas was suffering
                              from "mental trouble" at the time of his death.

                              Regards,
                              Teej
                              >





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                            • richard@rcroker.com
                              I m speaking to the 60th GA reenactment group next week. Any of you guys got any tales of them at Antietam? My ggrandaddy called them The Paulding (County)
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
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                                I'm speaking to the 60th GA reenactment group next week. Any of you guys got any tales of them at Antietam? My ggrandaddy called them "The Paulding (County) Rifles."


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: barringer63
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:16 PM
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


                                Stephen Recker wrote:
                                >
                                > I think this was in Washington DC.

                                In Douglas' obit in the N.Y. Times, the reporter wrote,"After the
                                war Gen. Douglas was arrested for having his photograph taken in
                                uniform and put in close confinement at Martinsburg, West Va. He was
                                sentenced to Fort Delaware for three months and on the way was taken
                                to Washington and confined in the penitentiary with Mrs. Surratt and
                                others on suspicion that he knew something about the assassination of
                                President Lincoln. He was soon released, the charge being unfounded,
                                and after serving out his sentence, was released in September, 1865,
                                and has since practiced law in Virginia and Maryland, serving as
                                Attorney General of Maryland and Judge of the Fifth Judicial
                                Circuit." The article also says that Douglas was suffering
                                from "mental trouble" at the time of his death.

                                Regards,
                                Teej
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • richard@rcroker.com
                                Heck Jake -- that s true of the OR. I followed up some of Gordon s stories when writing To Make Men Free, and the father/son episode he talked about seems to
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
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                                  Heck Jake -- that's true of the OR. I followed up some of Gordon's stories when writing To Make Men Free, and the father/son episode he talked about seems to be authentic. The words ("My son is gone, and I am soon to follow, but it is okay") may be an elaborate memory, but the Johnson's both died in the Lane. FYI of the nit pickers among you -- the preceeding quotation is from my own memory. If you insist I'll look it up, but please don't insist.


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Stephen Recker
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:39 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Hagerstown in General


                                  I think this was in Washington DC.

                                  Stephen

                                  On Tuesday, November 20, 2007, at 06:31 PM, david lutton wrote:

                                  > 1. He was arrested in Shepherdstown while trying to get a photo of
                                  > himself in his confederate uniform. If my memory is correct...to
                                  > impress a lady friend.





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • James W. Durney
                                  Professor Clemens, is it possible to get a copy of the artical you wrote on Burnside s Bridge? We want to debate the subject at one of our Round Table
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
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                                    Professor Clemens, is it possible to get a copy of the artical you
                                    wrote on Burnside's Bridge? We want to debate the subject at one of
                                    our Round Table meetings.

                                    Thank you

                                    James Durney
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.