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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

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  • G E Mayers
    Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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      Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


      > Gerry:
      >
      > We might be talking past each other.
      >
      > The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that
      > book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first
      > appearance bound in book form is 1904.
      >
      > A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.
      >
      > Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from
      > the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As
      > anyone on this board who has every published anything knows,
      > one is constantly tweaking the final product.)
      >
      > When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only
      > speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the
      > individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first
      > maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.
      >
      > --jake
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >
      > Joe;
      >
      > The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.
      >
      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
      > from
      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
      > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >
      >> Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
      >> scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
      >> first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
      >> edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
      >> edition--is beyond me
      >>
      >> How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
      >> Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
      >> justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
      >> that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
      >> position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
      >> edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
      >> of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
      >> that was left off of a particular plate.
      >>
      >> I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
      >> say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
      >> appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
      >> edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
      >>
      >> As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
      >> (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
      >> interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
      >> Gettysburg VC.
      >>
      >>
      >> ----- Original Message ----
      >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
      >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
      >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >>
      >> Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
      >> Carman's
      >> maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
      >> earlier
      >> one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
      >> version?
      >>
      >> The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
      >> is the
      >> crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
      >> of the
      >> atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
      >> versions
      >> by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
      >> you are
      >> correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals
      >> using
      >> high
      >> res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most
      >> serious
      >> students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
      >>
      >> The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
      >> the
      >> cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
      >> $250 a
      >> set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
      >> include the minimum number a printer would require before it
      >> would
      >> print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
      >>
      >> Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
      >>
      >> Larry
      >>
      >>
      >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
      >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle,
      >>> my
      >> publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
      >> information
      >> contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
      >> say,
      >> any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find
      >> in
      >> bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
      >> Atlas
      >> plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
      >>>
      >>> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
      >>> one.
      >> About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
      >> Gettysburg
      >> did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
      >> Desjardin did
      >> three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
      >> each
      >> day).
      >>>
      >>> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
      >>> you
      >> woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
      >> do is
      >> repoduce an already extant set of maps.
      >>>
      >>> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing
      >>> the
      >> image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
      >> high-res
      >> scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
      >> on a
      >> sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ----- Original Message ----
      >>> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
      >>> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      >>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
      >>> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >>>
      >>> Jake,
      >>>
      >>> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
      >>>
      >>> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to
      >>> make
      >>> a
      >>> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization?
      >>> I
      >> would
      >>> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
      >>> being
      >>> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
      >>>
      >>> Larry
      >>>
      >>> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
      >>> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      >>> >
      >>> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
      >>> > Books
      >>> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
      >>> full
      >> set
      >>> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
      >>> full
      >>> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
      >>> (they
      >>> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
      >>> recent
      >>> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
      >>> >
      >>> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
      >>> > Library
      >> of
      >>> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan
      >>> the
      >>> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
      >>> digital
      >>> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not
      >>> having
      >> access
      >>> to them at all.
      >>> >
      >>> > Best,
      >>> >
      >>> > --j
      >>> >
      >>> >
      >>> > ----- Original Message ----
      >>> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
      >>> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      >>> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
      >>> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >>> >
      >>> > Jake,
      >>> >
      >>> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
      >>> > Carmen-Cope
      >>> maps
      >>> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
      >>> > help,
      >> pls
      >>> > let me know.
      >>> >
      >>> > Larry
      >>> >
      >>> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
      >>> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      >>> > >
      >>> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't
      >>> > > some
      >>> > > sort
      >>> of
      >>> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
      >>> > >
      >>> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
      >>> > > might
      >> as
      >>> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
      >>> > >
      >>> > > --j
      >>> > >
      >>> > >
      >>> > > ----- Original Message ----
      >>> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
      >>> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      >>> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
      >>> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >>> > >
      >>> > > Jake,
      >>> > >
      >>> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
      >>> > > you
      >> will
      >>> be
      >>> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
      >>> > > late,
      >>> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened
      >>> > > will
      >>> > > be
      >>> > > wonderful.
      >>> > >
      >>> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when
      >>> > > I
      >> first
      >>> > saw
      >>> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
      >>> > > done.
      >>> > Good
      >>> > > luck on our recovery.
      >>> > >
      >>> > > Larry
      >>> > >
      >>> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
      >>> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
      >>> > > > on
      >> the
      >>> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
      >>> > > > coming
      >> from
      >>> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
      >>> > > > when
      >>> last
      >>> > I
      >>> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
      >>> > > > work
      >>> left
      >>> > on
      >>> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready
      >>> > > > to
      >>> > > > go
      >> to
      >>> > the
      >>> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
      >>> > > > the
      >>> > > appendix.
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
      >>> > > > food
      >>> > > poisoning
      >>> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
      >>> > > > hospital
      >>> > ever
      >>> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
      >>> > > > release
      >>> date.
      >>> > As
      >>> > > I
      >>> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I
      >>> > > > was
      >>> > > > 100%
      >>> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
      >>> > > > done,
      >>> > it'll
      >>> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
      >>> > > > then
      >>> > > physically
      >>> > > > produce books.
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December.
      >>> > > > I'm
      >> going
      >>> to
      >>> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
      >>> > > > in
      >> time
      >>> > for
      >>> > > > Xmas deliveries.
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > All best,
      >>> > > >
      >>> > > > --jake
      >>> > > >
      >>> > >
      >>> > >
      >>> > >
      >>> > >
      >>> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      >>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
      >>> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
      >>> > > around
      >>> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
      >>> > >
      >>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>> > >
      >>> >
      >>> >
      >>> >
      >>> >
      >>> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      >>> > Do You Yahoo!?
      >>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
      >>> > around
      >>> > http://mail. yahoo.com
      >>> >
      >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>> >
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      >>> Do You Yahoo!?
      >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
      >>> around
      >>> http://mail. yahoo.com
      >>>
      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      >> Do You Yahoo!?
      >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      >> http://mail. yahoo.com
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail.yahoo.com
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • eighth_conn_inf
      I ve only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me. ... eBay?
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        I've only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me.

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
        >
        > Larry,
        >
        > Sorry. All gone. No more.
        >
        > Stephen
        >
        > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
        >
        > > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on
        eBay?
        > > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
        > >
        >
      • Stephen Recker
        Larry, Sorry. All gone. No more. Stephen
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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          Larry,

          Sorry. All gone. No more.

          Stephen

          On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

          > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
          > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
          >
        • Brian Richardson
          There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves have a 1904 date. Brian
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
            accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
            have a 1904 date.

            Brian Richardson


            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
            <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
            the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
            edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
            instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
            >
            > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
            Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
            reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
            will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
            regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
            in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
            the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
            plate.
            >
            > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
            which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
            somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
            it's the 2d.
            >
            > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
            (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
            interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
            Gettysburg VC.
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            >
            > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
            > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
            earlier
            > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
            > version?
            >
            > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
            the
            > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
            the
            > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
            versions
            > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
            are
            > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
            high
            > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
            > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
            >
            > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
            > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
            > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
            > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
            > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
            >
            > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
            >
            > Larry
            >
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
            > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
            information
            > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
            > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
            > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
            Atlas
            > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
            > >
            > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
            one.
            > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
            Gettysburg
            > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
            did
            > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
            > day).
            > >
            > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
            > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
            is
            > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
            > >
            > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
            > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
            > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
            > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
            > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            > >
            > > Jake,
            > >
            > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
            > >
            > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
            > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
            > would
            > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
            > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
            > >
            > > Larry
            > >
            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
            Books
            > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
            > set
            > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
            > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
            > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
            recent
            > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
            > > >
            > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
            Library
            > of
            > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
            > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
            > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
            > access
            > > to them at all.
            > > >
            > > > Best,
            > > >
            > > > --j
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
            > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
            > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            > > >
            > > > Jake,
            > > >
            > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
            Cope
            > > maps
            > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
            > pls
            > > > let me know.
            > > >
            > > > Larry
            > > >
            > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
            sort
            > > of
            > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
            > > > >
            > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
            > as
            > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
            > > > >
            > > > > --j
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
            > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
            > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            > > > >
            > > > > Jake,
            > > > >
            > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
            > will
            > > be
            > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
            late,
            > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
            > > > > wonderful.
            > > > >
            > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
            > first
            > > > saw
            > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
            done.
            > > > Good
            > > > > luck on our recovery.
            > > > >
            > > > > Larry
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
            > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
            > the
            > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
            > from
            > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
            > > last
            > > > I
            > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
            > > > > >
            > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
            > > left
            > > > on
            > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
            > to
            > > > the
            > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
            > > > > appendix.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
            > > > > poisoning
            > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
            hospital
            > > > ever
            > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
            > > date.
            > > > As
            > > > > I
            > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
            100%
            > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
            done,
            > > > it'll
            > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
            > > > > physically
            > > > > > produce books.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
            > going
            > > to
            > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
            > time
            > > > for
            > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > All best,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --jake
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
            around
            > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail. yahoo.com
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Joseph Pierro
            If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they re from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas. Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I m
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 30, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they're from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas.

              Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I'm willing to bet that the CD was made from the same set of scans that the LoC has now made available on its website.


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Brian Richardson <BrianSRich@...>
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:53:07 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

              There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
              accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
              have a 1904 date.

              Brian Richardson

              --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
              the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
              edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
              instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
              >
              > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
              Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
              reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
              will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
              regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
              in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
              the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
              plate.
              >
              > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
              which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
              somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
              it's the 2d.
              >
              > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
              (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
              interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
              Gettysburg VC.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              >
              > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
              > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
              earlier
              > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
              > version?
              >
              > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
              the
              > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
              the
              > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
              versions
              > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
              are
              > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
              high
              > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
              > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
              >
              > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
              > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
              > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
              > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
              > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
              >
              > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
              >
              > Larry
              >
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > >
              > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
              > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
              information
              > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
              > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
              > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
              Atlas
              > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
              > >
              > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
              one.
              > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
              Gettysburg
              > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
              did
              > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
              > day).
              > >
              > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
              > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
              is
              > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
              > >
              > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
              > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
              > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
              > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
              > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              > >
              > > Jake,
              > >
              > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
              > >
              > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
              > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
              > would
              > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
              > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
              > >
              > > Larry
              > >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
              Books
              > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
              > set
              > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
              > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
              > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
              recent
              > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
              > > >
              > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
              Library
              > of
              > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
              > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
              > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
              > access
              > > to them at all.
              > > >
              > > > Best,
              > > >
              > > > --j
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
              > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
              > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              > > >
              > > > Jake,
              > > >
              > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
              Cope
              > > maps
              > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
              > pls
              > > > let me know.
              > > >
              > > > Larry
              > > >
              > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
              sort
              > > of
              > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
              > > > >
              > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
              > as
              > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
              > > > >
              > > > > --j
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
              > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
              > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              > > > >
              > > > > Jake,
              > > > >
              > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
              > will
              > > be
              > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
              late,
              > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
              > > > > wonderful.
              > > > >
              > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
              > first
              > > > saw
              > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
              done.
              > > > Good
              > > > > luck on our recovery.
              > > > >
              > > > > Larry
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
              > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
              > the
              > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
              > from
              > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
              > > last
              > > > I
              > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
              > > > > >
              > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
              > > left
              > > > on
              > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
              > to
              > > > the
              > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
              > > > > appendix.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
              > > > > poisoning
              > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
              hospital
              > > > ever
              > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
              > > > > >
              > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
              > > date.
              > > > As
              > > > > I
              > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
              100%
              > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
              done,
              > > > it'll
              > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
              > > > > physically
              > > > > > produce books.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
              > going
              > > to
              > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
              > time
              > > > for
              > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > All best,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --jake
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
              around
              > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > > http://mail. yahoo.com
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail. yahoo.com
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eighth_conn_inf
              Jake, Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@hotmail.com with a question re your pub date moved to January 2008? Thank you, Larry Freiheit ... maps ... of
              Message 6 of 26 , Dec 17, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Jake,

                Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@... with a
                question re your pub date moved to January 2008?

                Thank you,

                Larry Freiheit


                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
                <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jake,
                >
                > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                maps
                > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
                > let me know.
                >
                > Larry
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                of
                > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                > >
                > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
                > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                > >
                > > --j
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message ----
                > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
                > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                > >
                > > Jake,
                > >
                > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
                be
                > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                > > wonderful.
                > >
                > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
                > saw
                > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                > Good
                > > luck on our recovery.
                > >
                > > Larry
                > >
                > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
                > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                > > >
                > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
                > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                last
                > I
                > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                > > >
                > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                > > >
                > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                left
                > on
                > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
                > the
                > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                > > appendix.
                > > >
                > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                > > poisoning
                > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                > ever
                > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                > > >
                > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                date.
                > As
                > > I
                > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                > it'll
                > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                > > physically
                > > > produce books.
                > > >
                > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
                to
                > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
                > for
                > > > Xmas deliveries.
                > > >
                > > > All best,
                > > >
                > > > --jake
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________
                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • eighth_conn_inf
                Tom, I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version? Larry ... large ... sell
                Message 7 of 26 , Dec 31, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Tom,

                  I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any
                  specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version?

                  Larry


                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Larry,
                  > Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing
                  > copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them
                  large
                  > enough to be legible is pretty pricey and we didn't think we could
                  sell
                  > enough to make it worthwhile. Given the access of the LOC site, it
                  is
                  > less likely now. If you have any ideas about production, we have
                  8x10
                  > photo negatives of all fourteen maps.
                  >
                  >
                  > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > Professor of History
                  > Hagerstown Community College
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/29/2007 8:27 AM
                  > >>>
                  > Jake,
                  >
                  > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                  >
                  > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                  > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                  would
                  > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                  > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                  >
                  > Larry
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                  > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                  > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                  set
                  > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                  > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                  > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                  > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                  > >
                  > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                  of
                  > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                  > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                  > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                  access
                  > to them at all.
                  > >
                  > > Best,
                  > >
                  > > --j
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