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Re: Carman update

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  • eighth_conn_inf
    Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman s maps? I didn t realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier one. Is the CD
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
      Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
      maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier
      one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
      version?

      The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is the
      crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of the
      atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two versions
      by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you are
      correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using high
      res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
      students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.

      The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
      cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
      set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
      include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
      print an order as well as any marketing expenses.

      Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?

      Larry


      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
      <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
      >
      > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
      publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information
      contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
      any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
      bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas
      plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
      >
      > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one.
      About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg
      did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did
      three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
      day).
      >
      > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
      woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is
      repoduce an already extant set of maps.
      >
      > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
      image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
      scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
      sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >
      > Jake,
      >
      > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
      >
      > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
      > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
      would
      > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
      > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
      >
      > Larry
      >
      > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
      > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
      > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
      set
      > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
      > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
      > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
      > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
      > >
      > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
      of
      > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
      > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
      > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
      access
      > to them at all.
      > >
      > > Best,
      > >
      > > --j
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message ----
      > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
      > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      > >
      > > Jake,
      > >
      > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
      > maps
      > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
      pls
      > > let me know.
      > >
      > > Larry
      > >
      > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
      > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
      > of
      > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
      > > >
      > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
      as
      > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
      > > >
      > > > --j
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message ----
      > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
      > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
      > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      > > >
      > > > Jake,
      > > >
      > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
      will
      > be
      > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
      > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
      > > > wonderful.
      > > >
      > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
      first
      > > saw
      > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
      > > Good
      > > > luck on our recovery.
      > > >
      > > > Larry
      > > >
      > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
      > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
      the
      > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
      from
      > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
      > last
      > > I
      > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
      > > > >
      > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
      > > > >
      > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
      > left
      > > on
      > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
      to
      > > the
      > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
      > > > appendix.
      > > > >
      > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
      > > > poisoning
      > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
      > > ever
      > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
      > > > >
      > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
      > date.
      > > As
      > > > I
      > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
      > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
      > > it'll
      > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
      > > > physically
      > > > > produce books.
      > > > >
      > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
      going
      > to
      > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
      time
      > > for
      > > > > Xmas deliveries.
      > > > >
      > > > > All best,
      > > > >
      > > > > --jake
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      > > > Do You Yahoo!?
      > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      > > Do You Yahoo!?
      > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > > http://mail. yahoo.com
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail.yahoo.com
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Gerry, You have a good suggestion. I m sure SHAF would be concerned about making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those costs would be
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
        Gerry,

        You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
        making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
        costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
        shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
        of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
        they would like after the initial sets are sold.

        Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?

        Larry



        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Larry;
        >
        > That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
        > Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
        > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
        >
        >
        > Jake,
        >
        > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
        >
        > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
        > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
        > would
        > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
        > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
        >
        > Larry
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
        > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
        > >
        > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
        > > Books
        > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
        > set
        > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
        > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
        > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
        > recent
        > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
        > >
        > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
        > > Library of
        > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
        > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
        > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
        > access
        > to them at all.
        > >
        > > Best,
        > >
        > > --j
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message ----
        > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
        > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
        > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
        > >
        > > Jake,
        > >
        > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
        > > Carmen-Cope
        > maps
        > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
        > > pls
        > > let me know.
        > >
        > > Larry
        > >
        > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
        > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
        > > > sort
        > of
        > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
        > > >
        > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
        > > > as
        > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
        > > >
        > > > --j
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message ----
        > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
        > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
        > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
        > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
        > > >
        > > > Jake,
        > > >
        > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
        > > > will
        > be
        > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
        > > > late,
        > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
        > > > wonderful.
        > > >
        > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
        > > > first
        > > saw
        > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
        > > > done.
        > > Good
        > > > luck on our recovery.
        > > >
        > > > Larry
        > > >
        > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
        > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
        > > > > the
        > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
        > > > > from
        > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
        > last
        > > I
        > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
        > > > >
        > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
        > > > >
        > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
        > left
        > > on
        > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
        > > > > to
        > > the
        > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
        > > > appendix.
        > > > >
        > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
        > > > poisoning
        > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
        > > > > hospital
        > > ever
        > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
        > > > >
        > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
        > date.
        > > As
        > > > I
        > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
        > > > > 100%
        > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
        > > > > done,
        > > it'll
        > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
        > > > physically
        > > > > produce books.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
        > > > > going
        > to
        > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
        > > > > time
        > > for
        > > > > Xmas deliveries.
        > > > >
        > > > > All best,
        > > > >
        > > > > --jake
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        > > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
        > > > around
        > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________________________
        > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • Stephen Recker
        I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move fast and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can t imagine that would
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
          I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move fast
          and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can't
          imagine that would be a big money maker. Perhaps offering them on a
          print-on-demand basis?

          Stephen

          On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 09:25 AM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

          > You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
          > making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
          > costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
          > shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
          > of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
          > they would like after the initial sets are sold.
          >
          > Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?
          >
        • Joseph Pierro
          Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they re BOTH of the first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
            Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me

            How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular plate.

            I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.

            As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the Gettysburg VC.


            ----- Original Message ----
            From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

            Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
            maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier
            one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
            version?

            The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is the
            crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of the
            atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two versions
            by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you are
            correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using high
            res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
            students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.

            The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
            cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
            set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
            include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
            print an order as well as any marketing expenses.

            Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?

            Larry


            --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
            publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information
            contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
            any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
            bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas
            plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
            >
            > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one.
            About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg
            did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did
            three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
            day).
            >
            > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
            woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is
            repoduce an already extant set of maps.
            >
            > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
            image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
            scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
            sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
            > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            >
            > Jake,
            >
            > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
            >
            > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
            > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
            would
            > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
            > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
            >
            > Larry
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
            > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
            set
            > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
            > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
            > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
            > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
            > >
            > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
            of
            > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
            > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
            > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
            access
            > to them at all.
            > >
            > > Best,
            > >
            > > --j
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
            > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            > >
            > > Jake,
            > >
            > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
            > maps
            > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
            pls
            > > let me know.
            > >
            > > Larry
            > >
            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
            > of
            > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
            > > >
            > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
            as
            > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
            > > >
            > > > --j
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
            > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
            > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            > > >
            > > > Jake,
            > > >
            > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
            will
            > be
            > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
            > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
            > > > wonderful.
            > > >
            > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
            first
            > > saw
            > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
            > > Good
            > > > luck on our recovery.
            > > >
            > > > Larry
            > > >
            > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
            > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
            the
            > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
            > > > >
            > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
            from
            > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
            > last
            > > I
            > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
            > > > >
            > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
            > > > >
            > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
            > left
            > > on
            > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
            to
            > > the
            > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
            > > > appendix.
            > > > >
            > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
            > > > poisoning
            > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
            > > ever
            > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
            > > > >
            > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
            > date.
            > > As
            > > > I
            > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
            > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
            > > it'll
            > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
            > > > physically
            > > > > produce books.
            > > > >
            > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
            going
            > to
            > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
            time
            > > for
            > > > > Xmas deliveries.
            > > > >
            > > > > All best,
            > > > >
            > > > > --jake
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail. yahoo.com
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail. yahoo.com
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >




            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joseph Pierro
            Yes, the full Bachelder set of 28 maps (37 x 27 1/2 ) was reprinted in color by Morningside Books of Dayton, Ohio, some years ago. The item still appears on
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
              Yes, the full Bachelder set of 28 maps (37" x 27 1/2") was reprinted in color by Morningside Books of Dayton, Ohio, some years ago. The item still appears on their website (morningsidebooksDOTcom).

              What would it cost to make a reproducable image of each Carman map? What is the production cost to print them? What's the market demand for the map sets? I couldn't begin to answer any of these questions. (Fairly or not, Gettysburg exists on an order of magnitude apart from any other CW battle in terms of marketplace interest.)

              My sense, though, is that if any non profit were to try and tackle such a project, they'd need to apply for a grant from some organization or foundation to cover the costs. I'd be REALLY surprised if the economics of such an undertaking would allow such a project to break even, let alone run in the black.

              --jake


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:25:45 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

              Gerry,

              You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
              making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
              costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
              shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
              of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
              they would like after the initial sets are sold.

              Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?

              Larry

              --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@. ..>
              wrote:
              >
              > Larry;
              >
              > That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
              > Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
              > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              >
              >
              > Jake,
              >
              > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
              >
              > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
              > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
              > would
              > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
              > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
              >
              > Larry
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              > <joseph_pierro@ > wrote:
              > >
              > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
              > > Books
              > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
              > set
              > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
              > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
              > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
              > recent
              > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
              > >
              > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
              > > Library of
              > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
              > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
              > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
              > access
              > to them at all.
              > >
              > > Best,
              > >
              > > --j
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
              > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              > >
              > > Jake,
              > >
              > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
              > > Carmen-Cope
              > maps
              > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
              > > pls
              > > let me know.
              > >
              > > Larry
              > >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
              > > > sort
              > of
              > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
              > > >
              > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
              > > > as
              > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
              > > >
              > > > --j
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
              > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
              > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              > > >
              > > > Jake,
              > > >
              > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
              > > > will
              > be
              > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
              > > > late,
              > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
              > > > wonderful.
              > > >
              > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
              > > > first
              > > saw
              > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
              > > > done.
              > > Good
              > > > luck on our recovery.
              > > >
              > > > Larry
              > > >
              > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
              > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
              > > > > the
              > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
              > > > >
              > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
              > > > > from
              > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
              > last
              > > I
              > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
              > > > >
              > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
              > > > >
              > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
              > left
              > > on
              > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
              > > > > to
              > > the
              > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
              > > > appendix.
              > > > >
              > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
              > > > poisoning
              > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
              > > > > hospital
              > > ever
              > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
              > > > >
              > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
              > date.
              > > As
              > > > I
              > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
              > > > > 100%
              > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
              > > > > done,
              > > it'll
              > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
              > > > physically
              > > > > produce books.
              > > > >
              > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
              > > > > going
              > to
              > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
              > > > > time
              > > for
              > > > > Xmas deliveries.
              > > > >
              > > > > All best,
              > > > >
              > > > > --jake
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
              > > > around
              > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > > http://mail. yahoo.com
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >




              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • G E Mayers
              Joe; The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                Joe;

                The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


                > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                > scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                > first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                > edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                > edition--is beyond me
                >
                > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                > Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                > justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                > that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                > position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                > edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                > of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                > that was left off of a particular plate.
                >
                > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                > say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                > appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                > edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                >
                > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                > (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                > interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                > Gettysburg VC.
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                >
                > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                > Carman's
                > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                > earlier
                > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                > version?
                >
                > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                > is the
                > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                > of the
                > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                > versions
                > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                > you are
                > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                > high
                > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                >
                > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                > the
                > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                > $250 a
                > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                > include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                > would
                > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                >
                > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                >
                > Larry
                >
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                >>
                >> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                > information
                > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                > say,
                > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                > Atlas
                > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                >>
                >> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                >> one.
                > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                > Gettysburg
                > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                > Desjardin did
                > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                > each
                > day).
                >>
                >> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                >> you
                > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                > do is
                > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                >>
                >> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                > high-res
                > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                > on a
                > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                >>
                >>
                >> ----- Original Message ----
                >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                >>
                >> Jake,
                >>
                >> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                >>
                >> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make
                >> a
                >> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                > would
                >> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                >> being
                >> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                >>
                >> Larry
                >>
                >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                >> > Books
                >> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                >> full
                > set
                >> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                >> full
                >> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                >> (they
                >> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                >> recent
                >> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                >> >
                >> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                >> > Library
                > of
                >> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                >> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                >> digital
                >> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                > access
                >> to them at all.
                >> >
                >> > Best,
                >> >
                >> > --j
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ----- Original Message ----
                >> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                >> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                >> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                >> >
                >> > Jake,
                >> >
                >> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                >> > Carmen-Cope
                >> maps
                >> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                >> > help,
                > pls
                >> > let me know.
                >> >
                >> > Larry
                >> >
                >> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                >> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                >> > >
                >> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                >> > > sort
                >> of
                >> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                >> > >
                >> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                >> > > might
                > as
                >> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                >> > >
                >> > > --j
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > > ----- Original Message ----
                >> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                >> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                >> > >
                >> > > Jake,
                >> > >
                >> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                >> > > you
                > will
                >> be
                >> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                >> > > late,
                >> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will
                >> > > be
                >> > > wonderful.
                >> > >
                >> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                > first
                >> > saw
                >> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                >> > > done.
                >> > Good
                >> > > luck on our recovery.
                >> > >
                >> > > Larry
                >> > >
                >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                >> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                >> > > >
                >> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                >> > > > on
                > the
                >> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                >> > > >
                >> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                >> > > > coming
                > from
                >> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                >> > > > when
                >> last
                >> > I
                >> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                >> > > >
                >> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                >> > > >
                >> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                >> > > > work
                >> left
                >> > on
                >> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to
                >> > > > go
                > to
                >> > the
                >> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                >> > > > the
                >> > > appendix.
                >> > > >
                >> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                >> > > > food
                >> > > poisoning
                >> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                >> > > > hospital
                >> > ever
                >> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                >> > > >
                >> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                >> > > > release
                >> date.
                >> > As
                >> > > I
                >> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                >> > > > 100%
                >> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                >> > > > done,
                >> > it'll
                >> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                >> > > > then
                >> > > physically
                >> > > > produce books.
                >> > > >
                >> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                > going
                >> to
                >> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                >> > > > in
                > time
                >> > for
                >> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                >> > > >
                >> > > > All best,
                >> > > >
                >> > > > --jake
                >> > > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                >> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                >> > > around
                >> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                >> > >
                >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> > >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                >> > Do You Yahoo!?
                >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                >> > around
                >> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                >> Do You Yahoo!?
                >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • Joseph Pierro
                Gerry: We might be talking past each other. The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that book. The maps themselves predate that, but their
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                  Gerry:

                  We might be talking past each other.

                  The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first appearance bound in book form is 1904.

                  A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.

                  Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As anyone on this board who has every published anything knows, one is constantly tweaking the final product.)

                  When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.

                  --jake


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                  Joe;

                  The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                  Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                  > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                  > scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                  > first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                  > edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                  > edition--is beyond me
                  >
                  > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                  > Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                  > justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                  > that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                  > position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                  > edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                  > of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                  > that was left off of a particular plate.
                  >
                  > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                  > say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                  > appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                  > edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                  >
                  > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                  > (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                  > interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                  > Gettysburg VC.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message ----
                  > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
                  > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  >
                  > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                  > Carman's
                  > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                  > earlier
                  > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                  > version?
                  >
                  > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                  > is the
                  > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                  > of the
                  > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                  > versions
                  > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                  > you are
                  > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                  > high
                  > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                  > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                  >
                  > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                  > the
                  > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                  > $250 a
                  > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                  > include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                  > would
                  > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                  >
                  > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                  >
                  > Larry
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                  > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                  > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                  > information
                  > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                  > say,
                  > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                  > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                  > Atlas
                  > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                  >>
                  >> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                  >> one.
                  > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                  > Gettysburg
                  > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                  > Desjardin did
                  > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                  > each
                  > day).
                  >>
                  >> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                  >> you
                  > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                  > do is
                  > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                  >>
                  >> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                  > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                  > high-res
                  > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                  > on a
                  > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ----- Original Message ----
                  >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                  >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                  >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  >>
                  >> Jake,
                  >>
                  >> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                  >>
                  >> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make
                  >> a
                  >> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                  > would
                  >> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                  >> being
                  >> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                  >>
                  >> Larry
                  >>
                  >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                  >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                  >> > Books
                  >> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                  >> full
                  > set
                  >> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                  >> full
                  >> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                  >> (they
                  >> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                  >> recent
                  >> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                  >> >
                  >> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                  >> > Library
                  > of
                  >> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                  >> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                  >> digital
                  >> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                  > access
                  >> to them at all.
                  >> >
                  >> > Best,
                  >> >
                  >> > --j
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > ----- Original Message ----
                  >> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                  >> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  >> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                  >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  >> >
                  >> > Jake,
                  >> >
                  >> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                  >> > Carmen-Cope
                  >> maps
                  >> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                  >> > help,
                  > pls
                  >> > let me know.
                  >> >
                  >> > Larry
                  >> >
                  >> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                  >> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                  >> > > sort
                  >> of
                  >> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                  >> > >
                  >> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                  >> > > might
                  > as
                  >> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                  >> > >
                  >> > > --j
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > > ----- Original Message ----
                  >> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                  >> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                  >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Jake,
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                  >> > > you
                  > will
                  >> be
                  >> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                  >> > > late,
                  >> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will
                  >> > > be
                  >> > > wonderful.
                  >> > >
                  >> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                  > first
                  >> > saw
                  >> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                  >> > > done.
                  >> > Good
                  >> > > luck on our recovery.
                  >> > >
                  >> > > Larry
                  >> > >
                  >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                  >> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                  >> > > > on
                  > the
                  >> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                  >> > > > coming
                  > from
                  >> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                  >> > > > when
                  >> last
                  >> > I
                  >> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                  >> > > > work
                  >> left
                  >> > on
                  >> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to
                  >> > > > go
                  > to
                  >> > the
                  >> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                  >> > > > the
                  >> > > appendix.
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                  >> > > > food
                  >> > > poisoning
                  >> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                  >> > > > hospital
                  >> > ever
                  >> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                  >> > > > release
                  >> date.
                  >> > As
                  >> > > I
                  >> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                  >> > > > 100%
                  >> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                  >> > > > done,
                  >> > it'll
                  >> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                  >> > > > then
                  >> > > physically
                  >> > > > produce books.
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                  > going
                  >> to
                  >> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                  >> > > > in
                  > time
                  >> > for
                  >> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > All best,
                  >> > > >
                  >> > > > --jake
                  >> > > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  >> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                  >> > > around
                  >> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  >> > >
                  >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >> > >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  >> > Do You Yahoo!?
                  >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                  >> > around
                  >> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  >> >
                  >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  >> Do You Yahoo!?
                  >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >




                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • eighth_conn_inf
                  Stephen, Sorry I didn t know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay? If yes, under what category? Do you have another set for sale? Larry F. ...
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                    Stephen,

                    Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
                    If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?

                    Larry F.


                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move
                    fast
                    > and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can't
                    > imagine that would be a big money maker. Perhaps offering them on a
                    > print-on-demand basis?
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                    > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 09:25 AM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                    >
                    > > You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                    > > making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if
                    those
                    > > costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                    > > shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an
                    investment
                    > > of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be
                    something
                    > > they would like after the initial sets are sold.
                    > >
                    > > Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?
                    > >
                    >
                  • G E Mayers
                    Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                      Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:13 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


                      > Gerry:
                      >
                      > We might be talking past each other.
                      >
                      > The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that
                      > book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first
                      > appearance bound in book form is 1904.
                      >
                      > A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.
                      >
                      > Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from
                      > the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As
                      > anyone on this board who has every published anything knows,
                      > one is constantly tweaking the final product.)
                      >
                      > When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only
                      > speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the
                      > individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first
                      > maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.
                      >
                      > --jake
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >
                      > Joe;
                      >
                      > The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.
                      >
                      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >
                      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                      > from
                      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                      > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                      > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >
                      >> Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                      >> scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                      >> first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                      >> edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                      >> edition--is beyond me
                      >>
                      >> How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                      >> Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                      >> justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                      >> that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                      >> position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                      >> edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                      >> of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                      >> that was left off of a particular plate.
                      >>
                      >> I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                      >> say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                      >> appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                      >> edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                      >>
                      >> As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                      >> (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                      >> interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                      >> Gettysburg VC.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ----- Original Message ----
                      >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
                      >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                      >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >>
                      >> Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                      >> Carman's
                      >> maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                      >> earlier
                      >> one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                      >> version?
                      >>
                      >> The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                      >> is the
                      >> crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                      >> of the
                      >> atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                      >> versions
                      >> by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                      >> you are
                      >> correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals
                      >> using
                      >> high
                      >> res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most
                      >> serious
                      >> students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                      >>
                      >> The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                      >> the
                      >> cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                      >> $250 a
                      >> set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                      >> include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                      >> would
                      >> print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                      >>
                      >> Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                      >>
                      >> Larry
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                      >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle,
                      >>> my
                      >> publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                      >> information
                      >> contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                      >> say,
                      >> any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find
                      >> in
                      >> bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                      >> Atlas
                      >> plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                      >>>
                      >>> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                      >>> one.
                      >> About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                      >> Gettysburg
                      >> did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                      >> Desjardin did
                      >> three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                      >> each
                      >> day).
                      >>>
                      >>> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                      >>> you
                      >> woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                      >> do is
                      >> repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                      >>>
                      >>> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing
                      >>> the
                      >> image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                      >> high-res
                      >> scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                      >> on a
                      >> sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> ----- Original Message ----
                      >>> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                      >>> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      >>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                      >>> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >>>
                      >>> Jake,
                      >>>
                      >>> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                      >>>
                      >>> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to
                      >>> make
                      >>> a
                      >>> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization?
                      >>> I
                      >> would
                      >>> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                      >>> being
                      >>> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                      >>>
                      >>> Larry
                      >>>
                      >>> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                      >>> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      >>> >
                      >>> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                      >>> > Books
                      >>> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                      >>> full
                      >> set
                      >>> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                      >>> full
                      >>> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                      >>> (they
                      >>> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                      >>> recent
                      >>> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                      >>> >
                      >>> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                      >>> > Library
                      >> of
                      >>> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan
                      >>> the
                      >>> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                      >>> digital
                      >>> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not
                      >>> having
                      >> access
                      >>> to them at all.
                      >>> >
                      >>> > Best,
                      >>> >
                      >>> > --j
                      >>> >
                      >>> >
                      >>> > ----- Original Message ----
                      >>> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                      >>> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      >>> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                      >>> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >>> >
                      >>> > Jake,
                      >>> >
                      >>> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                      >>> > Carmen-Cope
                      >>> maps
                      >>> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                      >>> > help,
                      >> pls
                      >>> > let me know.
                      >>> >
                      >>> > Larry
                      >>> >
                      >>> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                      >>> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't
                      >>> > > some
                      >>> > > sort
                      >>> of
                      >>> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                      >>> > > might
                      >> as
                      >>> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > --j
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > ----- Original Message ----
                      >>> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                      >>> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      >>> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                      >>> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > Jake,
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                      >>> > > you
                      >> will
                      >>> be
                      >>> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                      >>> > > late,
                      >>> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened
                      >>> > > will
                      >>> > > be
                      >>> > > wonderful.
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when
                      >>> > > I
                      >> first
                      >>> > saw
                      >>> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                      >>> > > done.
                      >>> > Good
                      >>> > > luck on our recovery.
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > Larry
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                      >>> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                      >>> > > > on
                      >> the
                      >>> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                      >>> > > > coming
                      >> from
                      >>> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                      >>> > > > when
                      >>> last
                      >>> > I
                      >>> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                      >>> > > > work
                      >>> left
                      >>> > on
                      >>> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready
                      >>> > > > to
                      >>> > > > go
                      >> to
                      >>> > the
                      >>> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                      >>> > > > the
                      >>> > > appendix.
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                      >>> > > > food
                      >>> > > poisoning
                      >>> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                      >>> > > > hospital
                      >>> > ever
                      >>> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                      >>> > > > release
                      >>> date.
                      >>> > As
                      >>> > > I
                      >>> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I
                      >>> > > > was
                      >>> > > > 100%
                      >>> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                      >>> > > > done,
                      >>> > it'll
                      >>> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                      >>> > > > then
                      >>> > > physically
                      >>> > > > produce books.
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December.
                      >>> > > > I'm
                      >> going
                      >>> to
                      >>> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                      >>> > > > in
                      >> time
                      >>> > for
                      >>> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > All best,
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > > > --jake
                      >>> > > >
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      >>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                      >>> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                      >>> > > around
                      >>> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                      >>> > >
                      >>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>> > >
                      >>> >
                      >>> >
                      >>> >
                      >>> >
                      >>> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      >>> > Do You Yahoo!?
                      >>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                      >>> > around
                      >>> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                      >>> >
                      >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>> >
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      >>> Do You Yahoo!?
                      >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                      >>> around
                      >>> http://mail. yahoo.com
                      >>>
                      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      >> Do You Yahoo!?
                      >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                    • eighth_conn_inf
                      I ve only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me. ... eBay?
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                        I've only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me.

                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Larry,
                        >
                        > Sorry. All gone. No more.
                        >
                        > Stephen
                        >
                        > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                        >
                        > > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on
                        eBay?
                        > > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
                        > >
                        >
                      • Stephen Recker
                        Larry, Sorry. All gone. No more. Stephen
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                          Larry,

                          Sorry. All gone. No more.

                          Stephen

                          On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

                          > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
                          > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
                          >
                        • Brian Richardson
                          There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves have a 1904 date. Brian
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                            There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
                            accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
                            have a 1904 date.

                            Brian Richardson


                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                            <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
                            the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
                            edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
                            instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
                            >
                            > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                            Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
                            reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
                            will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
                            regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
                            in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
                            the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
                            plate.
                            >
                            > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
                            which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
                            somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
                            it's the 2d.
                            >
                            > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                            (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                            interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                            Gettysburg VC.
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message ----
                            > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            >
                            > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                            > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                            earlier
                            > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                            > version?
                            >
                            > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
                            the
                            > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
                            the
                            > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                            versions
                            > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
                            are
                            > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                            high
                            > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                            > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                            >
                            > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                            > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                            > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                            > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                            > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                            >
                            > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                            >
                            > Larry
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                            > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                            > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                            information
                            > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                            > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                            > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                            Atlas
                            > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                            > >
                            > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                            one.
                            > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                            Gettysburg
                            > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
                            did
                            > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                            > day).
                            > >
                            > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                            > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
                            is
                            > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                            > >
                            > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                            > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                            > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                            > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message ----
                            > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                            > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            > >
                            > > Jake,
                            > >
                            > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                            > >
                            > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                            > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                            > would
                            > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                            > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                            > >
                            > > Larry
                            > >
                            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                            Books
                            > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                            > set
                            > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                            > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                            > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                            recent
                            > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                            > > >
                            > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                            Library
                            > of
                            > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                            > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                            > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                            > access
                            > > to them at all.
                            > > >
                            > > > Best,
                            > > >
                            > > > --j
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ----- Original Message ----
                            > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                            > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                            > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            > > >
                            > > > Jake,
                            > > >
                            > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
                            Cope
                            > > maps
                            > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                            > pls
                            > > > let me know.
                            > > >
                            > > > Larry
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                            > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                            sort
                            > > of
                            > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                            > as
                            > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --j
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                            > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                            > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                            > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Jake,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                            > will
                            > > be
                            > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                            late,
                            > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                            > > > > wonderful.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                            > first
                            > > > saw
                            > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                            done.
                            > > > Good
                            > > > > luck on our recovery.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Larry
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                            > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                            > the
                            > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                            > from
                            > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                            > > last
                            > > > I
                            > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                            > > left
                            > > > on
                            > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                            > to
                            > > > the
                            > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                            > > > > appendix.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                            > > > > poisoning
                            > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                            hospital
                            > > > ever
                            > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                            > > date.
                            > > > As
                            > > > > I
                            > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                            100%
                            > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                            done,
                            > > > it'll
                            > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                            > > > > physically
                            > > > > > produce books.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                            > going
                            > > to
                            > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                            > time
                            > > > for
                            > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > All best,
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --jake
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                            around
                            > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                            > > > >
                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            > http://mail.yahoo.com
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Joseph Pierro
                            If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they re from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas. Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I m
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 30, 2007
                              If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they're from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas.

                              Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I'm willing to bet that the CD was made from the same set of scans that the LoC has now made available on its website.


                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Brian Richardson <BrianSRich@...>
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:53:07 AM
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                              There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
                              accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
                              have a 1904 date.

                              Brian Richardson

                              --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
                              the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
                              edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
                              instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
                              >
                              > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                              Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
                              reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
                              will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
                              regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
                              in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
                              the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
                              plate.
                              >
                              > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
                              which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
                              somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
                              it's the 2d.
                              >
                              > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                              (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                              interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                              Gettysburg VC.
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message ----
                              > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >
                              > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                              > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                              earlier
                              > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                              > version?
                              >
                              > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
                              the
                              > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
                              the
                              > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                              versions
                              > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
                              are
                              > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                              high
                              > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                              > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                              >
                              > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                              > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                              > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                              > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                              > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                              >
                              > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                              >
                              > Larry
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                              > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                              information
                              > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                              > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                              > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                              Atlas
                              > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                              > >
                              > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                              one.
                              > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                              Gettysburg
                              > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
                              did
                              > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                              > day).
                              > >
                              > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                              > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
                              is
                              > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                              > >
                              > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                              > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                              > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                              > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message ----
                              > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                              > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              > >
                              > > Jake,
                              > >
                              > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                              > >
                              > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                              > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                              > would
                              > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                              > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                              > >
                              > > Larry
                              > >
                              > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                              Books
                              > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                              > set
                              > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                              > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                              > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                              recent
                              > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                              > > >
                              > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                              Library
                              > of
                              > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                              > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                              > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                              > access
                              > > to them at all.
                              > > >
                              > > > Best,
                              > > >
                              > > > --j
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ----- Original Message ----
                              > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                              > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                              > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              > > >
                              > > > Jake,
                              > > >
                              > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
                              Cope
                              > > maps
                              > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                              > pls
                              > > > let me know.
                              > > >
                              > > > Larry
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                              sort
                              > > of
                              > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                              > as
                              > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --j
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                              > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                              > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                              > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Jake,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                              > will
                              > > be
                              > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                              late,
                              > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                              > > > > wonderful.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                              > first
                              > > > saw
                              > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                              done.
                              > > > Good
                              > > > > luck on our recovery.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Larry
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                              > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                              > the
                              > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                              > from
                              > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                              > > last
                              > > > I
                              > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                              > > left
                              > > > on
                              > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                              > to
                              > > > the
                              > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                              > > > > appendix.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                              > > > > poisoning
                              > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                              hospital
                              > > > ever
                              > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                              > > date.
                              > > > As
                              > > > > I
                              > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                              100%
                              > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                              done,
                              > > > it'll
                              > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                              > > > > physically
                              > > > > > produce books.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                              > going
                              > > to
                              > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                              > time
                              > > > for
                              > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > All best,
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --jake
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                              around
                              > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >




                              __________________________________________________
                              Do You Yahoo!?
                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • eighth_conn_inf
                              Jake, Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@hotmail.com with a question re your pub date moved to January 2008? Thank you, Larry Freiheit ... maps ... of
                              Message 14 of 26 , Dec 17, 2007
                                Jake,

                                Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@... with a
                                question re your pub date moved to January 2008?

                                Thank you,

                                Larry Freiheit


                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
                                <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Jake,
                                >
                                > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                                maps
                                > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
                                > let me know.
                                >
                                > Larry
                                >
                                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                                of
                                > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                > >
                                > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
                                > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                > >
                                > > --j
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message ----
                                > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
                                > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                > >
                                > > Jake,
                                > >
                                > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
                                be
                                > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                                > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                > > wonderful.
                                > >
                                > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
                                > saw
                                > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                                > Good
                                > > luck on our recovery.
                                > >
                                > > Larry
                                > >
                                > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
                                > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
                                > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                last
                                > I
                                > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                > > >
                                > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                > > >
                                > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                left
                                > on
                                > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
                                > the
                                > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                > > appendix.
                                > > >
                                > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                > > poisoning
                                > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                                > ever
                                > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                > > >
                                > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                date.
                                > As
                                > > I
                                > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                                > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                                > it'll
                                > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                > > physically
                                > > > produce books.
                                > > >
                                > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
                                to
                                > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
                                > for
                                > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                > > >
                                > > > All best,
                                > > >
                                > > > --jake
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________________________
                                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                              • eighth_conn_inf
                                Tom, I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version? Larry ... large ... sell
                                Message 15 of 26 , Dec 31, 2007
                                  Tom,

                                  I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any
                                  specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version?

                                  Larry


                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Larry,
                                  > Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing
                                  > copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them
                                  large
                                  > enough to be legible is pretty pricey and we didn't think we could
                                  sell
                                  > enough to make it worthwhile. Given the access of the LOC site, it
                                  is
                                  > less likely now. If you have any ideas about production, we have
                                  8x10
                                  > photo negatives of all fourteen maps.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                  > Professor of History
                                  > Hagerstown Community College
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/29/2007 8:27 AM
                                  > >>>
                                  > Jake,
                                  >
                                  > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                  >
                                  > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                  > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                  would
                                  > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                  > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                  >
                                  > Larry
                                  >
                                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                  > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                                  > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                  set
                                  > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                  > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                  > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                                  > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                  > >
                                  > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                                  of
                                  > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                  > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                  > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                  access
                                  > to them at all.
                                  > >
                                  > > Best,
                                  > >
                                  > > --j
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