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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

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  • Joseph Pierro
    That s the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my publishers decided we couldn t use them in my book). The information contained on them is so
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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      That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say, any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.

      Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one. About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each day).

      Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is repoduce an already extant set of maps.

      From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

      Jake,

      I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

      Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
      profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I would
      buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
      printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

      Larry

      --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
      <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
      isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set
      of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
      color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
      shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
      years to a project like the Carman atlas.
      >
      > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of
      Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
      second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
      database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access
      to them at all.
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > --j
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
      > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >
      > Jake,
      >
      > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
      maps
      > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
      > let me know.
      >
      > Larry
      >
      > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
      > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
      of
      > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
      > >
      > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
      > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
      > >
      > > --j
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message ----
      > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
      > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      > >
      > > Jake,
      > >
      > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
      be
      > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
      > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
      > > wonderful.
      > >
      > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
      > saw
      > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
      > Good
      > > luck on our recovery.
      > >
      > > Larry
      > >
      > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
      > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
      > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
      > > >
      > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
      > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
      last
      > I
      > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
      > > >
      > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
      > > >
      > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
      left
      > on
      > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
      > the
      > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
      > > appendix.
      > > >
      > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
      > > poisoning
      > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
      > ever
      > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
      > > >
      > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
      date.
      > As
      > > I
      > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
      > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
      > it'll
      > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
      > > physically
      > > > produce books.
      > > >
      > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
      to
      > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
      > for
      > > > Xmas deliveries.
      > > >
      > > > All best,
      > > >
      > > > --jake
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      > > Do You Yahoo!?
      > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > > http://mail. yahoo.com
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail. yahoo.com
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >




      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • eighth_conn_inf
      Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman s maps? I didn t realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier one. Is the CD
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
        maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier
        one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
        version?

        The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is the
        crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of the
        atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two versions
        by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you are
        correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using high
        res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
        students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.

        The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
        cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
        set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
        include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
        print an order as well as any marketing expenses.

        Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?

        Larry


        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
        <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
        >
        > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
        publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information
        contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
        any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
        bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas
        plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
        >
        > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one.
        About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg
        did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did
        three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
        day).
        >
        > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
        woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is
        repoduce an already extant set of maps.
        >
        > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
        image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
        scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
        sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
        >
        > Jake,
        >
        > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
        >
        > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
        > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
        would
        > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
        > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
        >
        > Larry
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
        > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
        > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
        set
        > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
        > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
        > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
        > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
        > >
        > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
        of
        > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
        > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
        > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
        access
        > to them at all.
        > >
        > > Best,
        > >
        > > --j
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message ----
        > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
        > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
        > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
        > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
        > >
        > > Jake,
        > >
        > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
        > maps
        > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
        pls
        > > let me know.
        > >
        > > Larry
        > >
        > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
        > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
        > of
        > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
        > > >
        > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
        as
        > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
        > > >
        > > > --j
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message ----
        > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
        > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
        > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
        > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
        > > >
        > > > Jake,
        > > >
        > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
        will
        > be
        > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
        > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
        > > > wonderful.
        > > >
        > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
        first
        > > saw
        > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
        > > Good
        > > > luck on our recovery.
        > > >
        > > > Larry
        > > >
        > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
        > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
        the
        > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
        from
        > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
        > last
        > > I
        > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
        > > > >
        > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
        > > > >
        > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
        > left
        > > on
        > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
        to
        > > the
        > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
        > > > appendix.
        > > > >
        > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
        > > > poisoning
        > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
        > > ever
        > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
        > > > >
        > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
        > date.
        > > As
        > > > I
        > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
        > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
        > > it'll
        > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
        > > > physically
        > > > > produce books.
        > > > >
        > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
        going
        > to
        > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
        time
        > > for
        > > > > Xmas deliveries.
        > > > >
        > > > > All best,
        > > > >
        > > > > --jake
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        > > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        > > Do You Yahoo!?
        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > > http://mail. yahoo.com
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • eighth_conn_inf
        Gerry, You have a good suggestion. I m sure SHAF would be concerned about making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those costs would be
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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          Gerry,

          You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
          making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
          costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
          shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
          of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
          they would like after the initial sets are sold.

          Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?

          Larry



          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Larry;
          >
          > That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
          > Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
          >
          >
          > Jake,
          >
          > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
          >
          > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
          > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
          > would
          > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
          > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
          >
          > Larry
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
          > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
          > >
          > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
          > > Books
          > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
          > set
          > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
          > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
          > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
          > recent
          > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
          > >
          > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
          > > Library of
          > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
          > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
          > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
          > access
          > to them at all.
          > >
          > > Best,
          > >
          > > --j
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message ----
          > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
          > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
          > >
          > > Jake,
          > >
          > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
          > > Carmen-Cope
          > maps
          > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
          > > pls
          > > let me know.
          > >
          > > Larry
          > >
          > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
          > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
          > > > sort
          > of
          > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
          > > >
          > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
          > > > as
          > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
          > > >
          > > > --j
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ----- Original Message ----
          > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
          > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
          > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
          > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
          > > >
          > > > Jake,
          > > >
          > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
          > > > will
          > be
          > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
          > > > late,
          > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
          > > > wonderful.
          > > >
          > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
          > > > first
          > > saw
          > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
          > > > done.
          > > Good
          > > > luck on our recovery.
          > > >
          > > > Larry
          > > >
          > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
          > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
          > > > > the
          > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
          > > > > from
          > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
          > last
          > > I
          > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
          > > > >
          > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
          > > > >
          > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
          > left
          > > on
          > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
          > > > > to
          > > the
          > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
          > > > appendix.
          > > > >
          > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
          > > > poisoning
          > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
          > > > > hospital
          > > ever
          > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
          > > > >
          > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
          > date.
          > > As
          > > > I
          > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
          > > > > 100%
          > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
          > > > > done,
          > > it'll
          > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
          > > > physically
          > > > > produce books.
          > > > >
          > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
          > > > > going
          > to
          > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
          > > > > time
          > > for
          > > > > Xmas deliveries.
          > > > >
          > > > > All best,
          > > > >
          > > > > --jake
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          > > > Do You Yahoo!?
          > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
          > > > around
          > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________
          > > Do You Yahoo!?
          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • Thomas Clemens
          Larry, Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them large enough to be
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Larry,
            Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing
            copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them large
            enough to be legible is pretty pricey and we didn't think we could sell
            enough to make it worthwhile. Given the access of the LOC site, it is
            less likely now. If you have any ideas about production, we have 8x10
            photo negatives of all fourteen maps.


            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College



            >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/29/2007 8:27 AM
            >>>
            Jake,

            I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

            Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
            profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I would
            buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
            printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

            Larry

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
            <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
            >
            > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
            isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set
            of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
            color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
            shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
            years to a project like the Carman atlas.
            >
            > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of
            Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
            second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
            database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access
            to them at all.
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > --j
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            >
            > Jake,
            >
            > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
            maps
            > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
            > let me know.
            >
            > Larry
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
            of
            > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
            > >
            > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
            > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
            > >
            > > --j
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
            > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            > >
            > > Jake,
            > >
            > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
            be
            > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
            > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
            > > wonderful.
            > >
            > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
            > saw
            > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
            > Good
            > > luck on our recovery.
            > >
            > > Larry
            > >
            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
            > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
            > > >
            > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
            > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
            last
            > I
            > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
            > > >
            > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
            > > >
            > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
            left
            > on
            > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
            > the
            > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
            > > appendix.
            > > >
            > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
            > > poisoning
            > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
            > ever
            > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
            > > >
            > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
            date.
            > As
            > > I
            > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
            > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
            > it'll
            > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
            > > physically
            > > > produce books.
            > > >
            > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
            to
            > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
            > for
            > > > Xmas deliveries.
            > > >
            > > > All best,
            > > >
            > > > --jake
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail. yahoo.com
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Stephen Recker
            I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move fast and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can t imagine that would
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move fast
              and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can't
              imagine that would be a big money maker. Perhaps offering them on a
              print-on-demand basis?

              Stephen

              On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 09:25 AM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

              > You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
              > making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
              > costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
              > shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
              > of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
              > they would like after the initial sets are sold.
              >
              > Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?
              >
            • Joseph Pierro
              Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they re BOTH of the first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me

                How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular plate.

                I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.

                As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the Gettysburg VC.


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier
                one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                version?

                The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is the
                crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of the
                atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two versions
                by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you are
                correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using high
                res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.

                The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                print an order as well as any marketing expenses.

                Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?

                Larry


                --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information
                contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas
                plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                >
                > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one.
                About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg
                did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did
                three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                day).
                >
                > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is
                repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                >
                > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                >
                > Jake,
                >
                > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                >
                > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                would
                > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                >
                > Larry
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > >
                > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                set
                > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                > >
                > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                of
                > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                access
                > to them at all.
                > >
                > > Best,
                > >
                > > --j
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message ----
                > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                > >
                > > Jake,
                > >
                > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                > maps
                > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                pls
                > > let me know.
                > >
                > > Larry
                > >
                > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                > of
                > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                > > >
                > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                as
                > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                > > >
                > > > --j
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ----- Original Message ----
                > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                > > >
                > > > Jake,
                > > >
                > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                will
                > be
                > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                > > > wonderful.
                > > >
                > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                first
                > > saw
                > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                > > Good
                > > > luck on our recovery.
                > > >
                > > > Larry
                > > >
                > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                the
                > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                > > > >
                > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                from
                > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                > last
                > > I
                > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                > > > >
                > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                > > > >
                > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                > left
                > > on
                > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                to
                > > the
                > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                > > > appendix.
                > > > >
                > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                > > > poisoning
                > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                > > ever
                > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                > > > >
                > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                > date.
                > > As
                > > > I
                > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                > > it'll
                > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                > > > physically
                > > > > produce books.
                > > > >
                > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                going
                > to
                > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                time
                > > for
                > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                > > > >
                > > > > All best,
                > > > >
                > > > > --jake
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail. yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joseph Pierro
                Yes, the full Bachelder set of 28 maps (37 x 27 1/2 ) was reprinted in color by Morningside Books of Dayton, Ohio, some years ago. The item still appears on
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Yes, the full Bachelder set of 28 maps (37" x 27 1/2") was reprinted in color by Morningside Books of Dayton, Ohio, some years ago. The item still appears on their website (morningsidebooksDOTcom).

                  What would it cost to make a reproducable image of each Carman map? What is the production cost to print them? What's the market demand for the map sets? I couldn't begin to answer any of these questions. (Fairly or not, Gettysburg exists on an order of magnitude apart from any other CW battle in terms of marketplace interest.)

                  My sense, though, is that if any non profit were to try and tackle such a project, they'd need to apply for a grant from some organization or foundation to cover the costs. I'd be REALLY surprised if the economics of such an undertaking would allow such a project to break even, let alone run in the black.

                  --jake


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:25:45 AM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                  Gerry,

                  You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                  making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
                  costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                  shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
                  of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
                  they would like after the initial sets are sold.

                  Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?

                  Larry

                  --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@. ..>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Larry;
                  >
                  > That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
                  > Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                  > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  >
                  >
                  > Jake,
                  >
                  > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                  >
                  > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                  > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                  > would
                  > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                  > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                  >
                  > Larry
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                  > <joseph_pierro@ > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                  > > Books
                  > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                  > set
                  > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                  > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                  > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                  > recent
                  > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                  > >
                  > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                  > > Library of
                  > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                  > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                  > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                  > access
                  > to them at all.
                  > >
                  > > Best,
                  > >
                  > > --j
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                  > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                  > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  > >
                  > > Jake,
                  > >
                  > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                  > > Carmen-Cope
                  > maps
                  > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                  > > pls
                  > > let me know.
                  > >
                  > > Larry
                  > >
                  > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                  > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                  > > > sort
                  > of
                  > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                  > > >
                  > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                  > > > as
                  > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                  > > >
                  > > > --j
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                  > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                  > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  > > >
                  > > > Jake,
                  > > >
                  > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                  > > > will
                  > be
                  > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                  > > > late,
                  > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                  > > > wonderful.
                  > > >
                  > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                  > > > first
                  > > saw
                  > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                  > > > done.
                  > > Good
                  > > > luck on our recovery.
                  > > >
                  > > > Larry
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                  > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                  > > > > the
                  > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                  > > > > from
                  > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                  > last
                  > > I
                  > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                  > > > >
                  > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                  > left
                  > > on
                  > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                  > > > > to
                  > > the
                  > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                  > > > appendix.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                  > > > poisoning
                  > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                  > > > > hospital
                  > > ever
                  > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                  > date.
                  > > As
                  > > > I
                  > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                  > > > > 100%
                  > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                  > > > > done,
                  > > it'll
                  > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                  > > > physically
                  > > > > produce books.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                  > > > > going
                  > to
                  > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                  > > > > time
                  > > for
                  > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > All best,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --jake
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                  > > > around
                  > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >




                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Joe; The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Joe;

                    The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


                    > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                    > scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                    > first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                    > edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                    > edition--is beyond me
                    >
                    > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                    > Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                    > justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                    > that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                    > position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                    > edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                    > of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                    > that was left off of a particular plate.
                    >
                    > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                    > say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                    > appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                    > edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                    >
                    > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                    > (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                    > interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                    > Gettysburg VC.
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message ----
                    > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    >
                    > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                    > Carman's
                    > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                    > earlier
                    > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                    > version?
                    >
                    > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                    > is the
                    > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                    > of the
                    > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                    > versions
                    > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                    > you are
                    > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                    > high
                    > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                    > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                    >
                    > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                    > the
                    > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                    > $250 a
                    > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                    > include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                    > would
                    > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                    >
                    > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                    >
                    > Larry
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                    > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                    > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                    > information
                    > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                    > say,
                    > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                    > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                    > Atlas
                    > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                    >>
                    >> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                    >> one.
                    > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                    > Gettysburg
                    > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                    > Desjardin did
                    > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                    > each
                    > day).
                    >>
                    >> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                    >> you
                    > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                    > do is
                    > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                    >>
                    >> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                    > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                    > high-res
                    > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                    > on a
                    > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ----- Original Message ----
                    >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                    >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                    >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                    >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    >>
                    >> Jake,
                    >>
                    >> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                    >>
                    >> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make
                    >> a
                    >> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                    > would
                    >> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                    >> being
                    >> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                    >>
                    >> Larry
                    >>
                    >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                    >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                    >> > Books
                    >> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                    >> full
                    > set
                    >> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                    >> full
                    >> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                    >> (they
                    >> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                    >> recent
                    >> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                    >> >
                    >> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                    >> > Library
                    > of
                    >> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                    >> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                    >> digital
                    >> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                    > access
                    >> to them at all.
                    >> >
                    >> > Best,
                    >> >
                    >> > --j
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ----- Original Message ----
                    >> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                    >> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                    >> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                    >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    >> >
                    >> > Jake,
                    >> >
                    >> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                    >> > Carmen-Cope
                    >> maps
                    >> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                    >> > help,
                    > pls
                    >> > let me know.
                    >> >
                    >> > Larry
                    >> >
                    >> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                    >> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                    >> > > sort
                    >> of
                    >> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                    >> > > might
                    > as
                    >> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                    >> > >
                    >> > > --j
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > ----- Original Message ----
                    >> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                    >> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                    >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                    >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Jake,
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                    >> > > you
                    > will
                    >> be
                    >> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                    >> > > late,
                    >> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will
                    >> > > be
                    >> > > wonderful.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                    > first
                    >> > saw
                    >> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                    >> > > done.
                    >> > Good
                    >> > > luck on our recovery.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Larry
                    >> > >
                    >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                    >> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                    >> > > > on
                    > the
                    >> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                    >> > > > coming
                    > from
                    >> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                    >> > > > when
                    >> last
                    >> > I
                    >> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                    >> > > > work
                    >> left
                    >> > on
                    >> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to
                    >> > > > go
                    > to
                    >> > the
                    >> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                    >> > > > the
                    >> > > appendix.
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                    >> > > > food
                    >> > > poisoning
                    >> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                    >> > > > hospital
                    >> > ever
                    >> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                    >> > > > release
                    >> date.
                    >> > As
                    >> > > I
                    >> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                    >> > > > 100%
                    >> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                    >> > > > done,
                    >> > it'll
                    >> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                    >> > > > then
                    >> > > physically
                    >> > > > produce books.
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                    > going
                    >> to
                    >> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                    >> > > > in
                    > time
                    >> > for
                    >> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > All best,
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > --jake
                    >> > > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                    >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    >> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                    >> > > around
                    >> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                    >> > >
                    >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                    >> > Do You Yahoo!?
                    >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                    >> > around
                    >> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                    >> >
                    >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                    >> Do You Yahoo!?
                    >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • Joseph Pierro
                    Gerry: We might be talking past each other. The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that book. The maps themselves predate that, but their
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gerry:

                      We might be talking past each other.

                      The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first appearance bound in book form is 1904.

                      A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.

                      Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As anyone on this board who has every published anything knows, one is constantly tweaking the final product.)

                      When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.

                      --jake


                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                      Joe;

                      The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                      Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                      > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                      > scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                      > first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                      > edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                      > edition--is beyond me
                      >
                      > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                      > Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                      > justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                      > that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                      > position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                      > edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                      > of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                      > that was left off of a particular plate.
                      >
                      > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                      > say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                      > appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                      > edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                      >
                      > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                      > (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                      > interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                      > Gettysburg VC.
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
                      > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >
                      > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                      > Carman's
                      > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                      > earlier
                      > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                      > version?
                      >
                      > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                      > is the
                      > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                      > of the
                      > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                      > versions
                      > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                      > you are
                      > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                      > high
                      > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                      > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                      >
                      > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                      > the
                      > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                      > $250 a
                      > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                      > include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                      > would
                      > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                      >
                      > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                      >
                      > Larry
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                      > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                      > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                      > information
                      > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                      > say,
                      > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                      > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                      > Atlas
                      > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                      >>
                      >> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                      >> one.
                      > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                      > Gettysburg
                      > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                      > Desjardin did
                      > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                      > each
                      > day).
                      >>
                      >> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                      >> you
                      > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                      > do is
                      > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                      >>
                      >> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                      > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                      > high-res
                      > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                      > on a
                      > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ----- Original Message ----
                      >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                      >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                      >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >>
                      >> Jake,
                      >>
                      >> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                      >>
                      >> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make
                      >> a
                      >> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                      > would
                      >> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                      >> being
                      >> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                      >>
                      >> Larry
                      >>
                      >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                      >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                      >> > Books
                      >> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                      >> full
                      > set
                      >> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                      >> full
                      >> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                      >> (they
                      >> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                      >> recent
                      >> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                      >> >
                      >> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                      >> > Library
                      > of
                      >> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                      >> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                      >> digital
                      >> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                      > access
                      >> to them at all.
                      >> >
                      >> > Best,
                      >> >
                      >> > --j
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ----- Original Message ----
                      >> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                      >> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      >> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                      >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >> >
                      >> > Jake,
                      >> >
                      >> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                      >> > Carmen-Cope
                      >> maps
                      >> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                      >> > help,
                      > pls
                      >> > let me know.
                      >> >
                      >> > Larry
                      >> >
                      >> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                      >> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                      >> > > sort
                      >> of
                      >> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                      >> > > might
                      > as
                      >> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                      >> > >
                      >> > > --j
                      >> > >
                      >> > >
                      >> > > ----- Original Message ----
                      >> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                      >> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                      >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Jake,
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                      >> > > you
                      > will
                      >> be
                      >> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                      >> > > late,
                      >> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will
                      >> > > be
                      >> > > wonderful.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                      > first
                      >> > saw
                      >> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                      >> > > done.
                      >> > Good
                      >> > > luck on our recovery.
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Larry
                      >> > >
                      >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                      >> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                      >> > > > on
                      > the
                      >> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                      >> > > > coming
                      > from
                      >> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                      >> > > > when
                      >> last
                      >> > I
                      >> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                      >> > > > work
                      >> left
                      >> > on
                      >> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to
                      >> > > > go
                      > to
                      >> > the
                      >> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                      >> > > > the
                      >> > > appendix.
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                      >> > > > food
                      >> > > poisoning
                      >> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                      >> > > > hospital
                      >> > ever
                      >> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                      >> > > > release
                      >> date.
                      >> > As
                      >> > > I
                      >> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                      >> > > > 100%
                      >> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                      >> > > > done,
                      >> > it'll
                      >> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                      >> > > > then
                      >> > > physically
                      >> > > > produce books.
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                      > going
                      >> to
                      >> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                      >> > > > in
                      > time
                      >> > for
                      >> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > All best,
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > --jake
                      >> > > >
                      >> > >
                      >> > >
                      >> > >
                      >> > >
                      >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                      >> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                      >> > > around
                      >> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                      >> > >
                      >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> > >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      >> > Do You Yahoo!?
                      >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                      >> > around
                      >> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                      >> >
                      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      >> Do You Yahoo!?
                      >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > http://mail. yahoo.com
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >




                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • eighth_conn_inf
                      Stephen, Sorry I didn t know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay? If yes, under what category? Do you have another set for sale? Larry F. ...
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Stephen,

                        Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
                        If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?

                        Larry F.


                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move
                        fast
                        > and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can't
                        > imagine that would be a big money maker. Perhaps offering them on a
                        > print-on-demand basis?
                        >
                        > Stephen
                        >
                        > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 09:25 AM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                        >
                        > > You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                        > > making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if
                        those
                        > > costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                        > > shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an
                        investment
                        > > of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be
                        something
                        > > they would like after the initial sets are sold.
                        > >
                        > > Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?
                        > >
                        >
                      • G E Mayers
                        Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:13 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


                          > Gerry:
                          >
                          > We might be talking past each other.
                          >
                          > The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that
                          > book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first
                          > appearance bound in book form is 1904.
                          >
                          > A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.
                          >
                          > Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from
                          > the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As
                          > anyone on this board who has every published anything knows,
                          > one is constantly tweaking the final product.)
                          >
                          > When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only
                          > speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the
                          > individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first
                          > maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.
                          >
                          > --jake
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          >
                          > Joe;
                          >
                          > The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.
                          >
                          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >
                          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                          > from
                          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                          > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                          > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          >
                          >> Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                          >> scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                          >> first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                          >> edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                          >> edition--is beyond me
                          >>
                          >> How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                          >> Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                          >> justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                          >> that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                          >> position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                          >> edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                          >> of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                          >> that was left off of a particular plate.
                          >>
                          >> I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                          >> say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                          >> appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                          >> edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                          >>
                          >> As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                          >> (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                          >> interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                          >> Gettysburg VC.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ----- Original Message ----
                          >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
                          >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                          >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          >>
                          >> Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                          >> Carman's
                          >> maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                          >> earlier
                          >> one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                          >> version?
                          >>
                          >> The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                          >> is the
                          >> crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                          >> of the
                          >> atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                          >> versions
                          >> by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                          >> you are
                          >> correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals
                          >> using
                          >> high
                          >> res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most
                          >> serious
                          >> students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                          >>
                          >> The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                          >> the
                          >> cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                          >> $250 a
                          >> set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                          >> include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                          >> would
                          >> print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                          >>
                          >> Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                          >>
                          >> Larry
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                          >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle,
                          >>> my
                          >> publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                          >> information
                          >> contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                          >> say,
                          >> any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find
                          >> in
                          >> bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                          >> Atlas
                          >> plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                          >>>
                          >>> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                          >>> one.
                          >> About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                          >> Gettysburg
                          >> did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                          >> Desjardin did
                          >> three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                          >> each
                          >> day).
                          >>>
                          >>> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                          >>> you
                          >> woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                          >> do is
                          >> repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                          >>>
                          >>> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing
                          >>> the
                          >> image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                          >> high-res
                          >> scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                          >> on a
                          >> sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> ----- Original Message ----
                          >>> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                          >>> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          >>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                          >>> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          >>>
                          >>> Jake,
                          >>>
                          >>> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                          >>>
                          >>> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to
                          >>> make
                          >>> a
                          >>> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization?
                          >>> I
                          >> would
                          >>> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                          >>> being
                          >>> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                          >>>
                          >>> Larry
                          >>>
                          >>> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                          >>> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          >>> >
                          >>> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                          >>> > Books
                          >>> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                          >>> full
                          >> set
                          >>> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                          >>> full
                          >>> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                          >>> (they
                          >>> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                          >>> recent
                          >>> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                          >>> > Library
                          >> of
                          >>> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan
                          >>> the
                          >>> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                          >>> digital
                          >>> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not
                          >>> having
                          >> access
                          >>> to them at all.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Best,
                          >>> >
                          >>> > --j
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> > ----- Original Message ----
                          >>> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                          >>> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          >>> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                          >>> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Jake,
                          >>> >
                          >>> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                          >>> > Carmen-Cope
                          >>> maps
                          >>> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                          >>> > help,
                          >> pls
                          >>> > let me know.
                          >>> >
                          >>> > Larry
                          >>> >
                          >>> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                          >>> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't
                          >>> > > some
                          >>> > > sort
                          >>> of
                          >>> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                          >>> > > might
                          >> as
                          >>> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > --j
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > ----- Original Message ----
                          >>> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                          >>> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          >>> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                          >>> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > Jake,
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                          >>> > > you
                          >> will
                          >>> be
                          >>> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                          >>> > > late,
                          >>> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened
                          >>> > > will
                          >>> > > be
                          >>> > > wonderful.
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when
                          >>> > > I
                          >> first
                          >>> > saw
                          >>> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                          >>> > > done.
                          >>> > Good
                          >>> > > luck on our recovery.
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > Larry
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                          >>> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                          >>> > > > on
                          >> the
                          >>> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                          >>> > > > coming
                          >> from
                          >>> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                          >>> > > > when
                          >>> last
                          >>> > I
                          >>> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                          >>> > > > work
                          >>> left
                          >>> > on
                          >>> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready
                          >>> > > > to
                          >>> > > > go
                          >> to
                          >>> > the
                          >>> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                          >>> > > > the
                          >>> > > appendix.
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                          >>> > > > food
                          >>> > > poisoning
                          >>> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                          >>> > > > hospital
                          >>> > ever
                          >>> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                          >>> > > > release
                          >>> date.
                          >>> > As
                          >>> > > I
                          >>> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I
                          >>> > > > was
                          >>> > > > 100%
                          >>> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                          >>> > > > done,
                          >>> > it'll
                          >>> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                          >>> > > > then
                          >>> > > physically
                          >>> > > > produce books.
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December.
                          >>> > > > I'm
                          >> going
                          >>> to
                          >>> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                          >>> > > > in
                          >> time
                          >>> > for
                          >>> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > All best,
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > > > --jake
                          >>> > > >
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          >>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          >>> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                          >>> > > around
                          >>> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                          >>> > >
                          >>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>> > >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> >
                          >>> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          >>> > Do You Yahoo!?
                          >>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                          >>> > around
                          >>> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                          >>> >
                          >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>> >
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          >>> Do You Yahoo!?
                          >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                          >>> around
                          >>> http://mail. yahoo.com
                          >>>
                          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          >> Do You Yahoo!?
                          >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • eighth_conn_inf
                          I ve only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me. ... eBay?
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I've only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me.

                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Larry,
                            >
                            > Sorry. All gone. No more.
                            >
                            > Stephen
                            >
                            > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                            >
                            > > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on
                            eBay?
                            > > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
                            > >
                            >
                          • Stephen Recker
                            Larry, Sorry. All gone. No more. Stephen
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Larry,

                              Sorry. All gone. No more.

                              Stephen

                              On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

                              > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
                              > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
                              >
                            • Brian Richardson
                              There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves have a 1904 date. Brian
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
                                accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
                                have a 1904 date.

                                Brian Richardson


                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
                                the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
                                edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
                                instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
                                >
                                > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
                                reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
                                will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
                                regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
                                in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
                                the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
                                plate.
                                >
                                > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
                                which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
                                somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
                                it's the 2d.
                                >
                                > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                Gettysburg VC.
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message ----
                                > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                >
                                > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                                > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                earlier
                                > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                > version?
                                >
                                > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
                                the
                                > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
                                the
                                > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                versions
                                > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
                                are
                                > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                                high
                                > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                                > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                >
                                > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                                > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                                > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                                > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                >
                                > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                >
                                > Larry
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                                > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                information
                                > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                                > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                                > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                Atlas
                                > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                > >
                                > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                one.
                                > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                Gettysburg
                                > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
                                did
                                > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                                > day).
                                > >
                                > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                                > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
                                is
                                > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                > >
                                > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                                > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                                > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                                > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message ----
                                > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                > >
                                > > Jake,
                                > >
                                > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                > >
                                > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                > would
                                > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                > >
                                > > Larry
                                > >
                                > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                Books
                                > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                > set
                                > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                recent
                                > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                > > >
                                > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                Library
                                > of
                                > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                > access
                                > > to them at all.
                                > > >
                                > > > Best,
                                > > >
                                > > > --j
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                > > >
                                > > > Jake,
                                > > >
                                > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
                                Cope
                                > > maps
                                > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                                > pls
                                > > > let me know.
                                > > >
                                > > > Larry
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                                sort
                                > > of
                                > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                                > as
                                > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --j
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Jake,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                                > will
                                > > be
                                > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                late,
                                > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                > > > > wonderful.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                                > first
                                > > > saw
                                > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                done.
                                > > > Good
                                > > > > luck on our recovery.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Larry
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                                > the
                                > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                                > from
                                > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                > > last
                                > > > I
                                > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                > > left
                                > > > on
                                > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                                > to
                                > > > the
                                > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                > > > > appendix.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                > > > > poisoning
                                > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                hospital
                                > > > ever
                                > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                > > date.
                                > > > As
                                > > > > I
                                > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                                100%
                                > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                done,
                                > > > it'll
                                > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                > > > > physically
                                > > > > > produce books.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                                > going
                                > > to
                                > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                                > time
                                > > > for
                                > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > All best,
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --jake
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                around
                                > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > __________________________________________________
                                > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Joseph Pierro
                                If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they re from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas. Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I m
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 30, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they're from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas.

                                  Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I'm willing to bet that the CD was made from the same set of scans that the LoC has now made available on its website.


                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                  From: Brian Richardson <BrianSRich@...>
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:53:07 AM
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                                  There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
                                  accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
                                  have a 1904 date.

                                  Brian Richardson

                                  --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                  <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
                                  the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
                                  edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
                                  instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
                                  >
                                  > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                  Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
                                  reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
                                  will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
                                  regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
                                  in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
                                  the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
                                  plate.
                                  >
                                  > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
                                  which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
                                  somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
                                  it's the 2d.
                                  >
                                  > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                  (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                  interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                  Gettysburg VC.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                                  > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  >
                                  > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                                  > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                  earlier
                                  > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                  > version?
                                  >
                                  > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
                                  the
                                  > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
                                  the
                                  > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                  versions
                                  > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
                                  are
                                  > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                                  high
                                  > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                                  > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                  >
                                  > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                                  > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                                  > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                  > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                                  > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                  >
                                  > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                  >
                                  > Larry
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                  > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                                  > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                  information
                                  > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                                  > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                                  > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                  Atlas
                                  > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                  > >
                                  > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                  one.
                                  > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                  Gettysburg
                                  > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
                                  did
                                  > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                                  > day).
                                  > >
                                  > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                                  > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
                                  is
                                  > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                  > >
                                  > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                                  > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                                  > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                                  > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                  > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                  > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  > >
                                  > > Jake,
                                  > >
                                  > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                  > >
                                  > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                  > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                  > would
                                  > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                  > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                  > >
                                  > > Larry
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                  > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                  Books
                                  > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                  > set
                                  > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                  > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                  > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                  recent
                                  > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                  Library
                                  > of
                                  > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                  > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                  > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                  > access
                                  > > to them at all.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Best,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --j
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                  > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                  > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Jake,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
                                  Cope
                                  > > maps
                                  > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                                  > pls
                                  > > > let me know.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Larry
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                  > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                                  sort
                                  > > of
                                  > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                                  > as
                                  > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --j
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                  > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                  > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                  > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Jake,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                                  > will
                                  > > be
                                  > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                  late,
                                  > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                  > > > > wonderful.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                                  > first
                                  > > > saw
                                  > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                  done.
                                  > > > Good
                                  > > > > luck on our recovery.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Larry
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                  > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                                  > the
                                  > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                                  > from
                                  > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                  > > last
                                  > > > I
                                  > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                  > > left
                                  > > > on
                                  > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                                  > to
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                  > > > > appendix.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                  > > > > poisoning
                                  > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                  hospital
                                  > > > ever
                                  > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                  > > date.
                                  > > > As
                                  > > > > I
                                  > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                                  100%
                                  > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                  done,
                                  > > > it'll
                                  > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                  > > > > physically
                                  > > > > > produce books.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                                  > going
                                  > > to
                                  > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                                  > time
                                  > > > for
                                  > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > All best,
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --jake
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                  around
                                  > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >




                                  __________________________________________________
                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  http://mail.yahoo.com

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • eighth_conn_inf
                                  Jake, Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@hotmail.com with a question re your pub date moved to January 2008? Thank you, Larry Freiheit ... maps ... of
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Dec 17, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Jake,

                                    Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@... with a
                                    question re your pub date moved to January 2008?

                                    Thank you,

                                    Larry Freiheit


                                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
                                    <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Jake,
                                    >
                                    > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                                    maps
                                    > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
                                    > let me know.
                                    >
                                    > Larry
                                    >
                                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                    > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                                    of
                                    > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                    > >
                                    > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
                                    > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                    > >
                                    > > --j
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message ----
                                    > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
                                    > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                    > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                    > >
                                    > > Jake,
                                    > >
                                    > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
                                    be
                                    > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                                    > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                    > > wonderful.
                                    > >
                                    > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
                                    > saw
                                    > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                                    > Good
                                    > > luck on our recovery.
                                    > >
                                    > > Larry
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                    > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
                                    > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
                                    > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                    last
                                    > I
                                    > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                    > > >
                                    > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                    left
                                    > on
                                    > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
                                    > the
                                    > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                    > > appendix.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                    > > poisoning
                                    > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                                    > ever
                                    > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                    > > >
                                    > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                    date.
                                    > As
                                    > > I
                                    > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                                    > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                                    > it'll
                                    > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                    > > physically
                                    > > > produce books.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
                                    to
                                    > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
                                    > for
                                    > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > All best,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --jake
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > __________________________________________________
                                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • eighth_conn_inf
                                    Tom, I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version? Larry ... large ... sell
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Dec 31, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Tom,

                                      I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any
                                      specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version?

                                      Larry


                                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Larry,
                                      > Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing
                                      > copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them
                                      large
                                      > enough to be legible is pretty pricey and we didn't think we could
                                      sell
                                      > enough to make it worthwhile. Given the access of the LOC site, it
                                      is
                                      > less likely now. If you have any ideas about production, we have
                                      8x10
                                      > photo negatives of all fourteen maps.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                      > Professor of History
                                      > Hagerstown Community College
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/29/2007 8:27 AM
                                      > >>>
                                      > Jake,
                                      >
                                      > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                      >
                                      > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                      > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                      would
                                      > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                      > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                      >
                                      > Larry
                                      >
                                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                      > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                                      > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                      set
                                      > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                      > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                      > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                                      > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                      > >
                                      > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                                      of
                                      > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                      > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                      > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                      access
                                      > to them at all.
                                      > >
                                      > > Best,
                                      > >
                                      > > --j
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