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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

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  • Joseph Pierro
    You know, it s a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books isn t with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set of Bachelder maps from
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 28, 2007
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      You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent years to a project like the Carman atlas.

      Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access to them at all.

      Best,

      --j


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

      Jake,

      We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope maps
      to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
      let me know.

      Larry

      --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
      <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort of
      pharonic curse on this manuscript.
      >
      > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
      well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
      >
      > --j
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
      > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >
      > Jake,
      >
      > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will be
      > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
      > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
      > wonderful.
      >
      > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
      saw
      > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
      Good
      > luck on our recovery.
      >
      > Larry
      >
      > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
      > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
      > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
      > >
      > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
      > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when last
      I
      > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
      > >
      > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
      > >
      > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work left
      on
      > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
      the
      > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
      > appendix.
      > >
      > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
      > poisoning
      > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
      ever
      > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
      > >
      > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release date.
      As
      > I
      > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
      > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
      it'll
      > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
      > physically
      > > produce books.
      > >
      > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going to
      > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
      for
      > > Xmas deliveries.
      > >
      > > All best,
      > >
      > > --jake
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail. yahoo.com
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >




      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Joseph Pierro
      Congrats, Tom!!! I m glad to know your work too may come to fruition. As for that curse, though, your manuscript isn t finished yet. Give it time. ;) --j ...
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 28, 2007
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        Congrats, Tom!!! I'm glad to know your work too may come to fruition.

        As for that curse, though, your manuscript isn't finished yet. Give it time. ;)

        --j


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...>
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 9:40:27 AM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

        Well, it did not curse me, at least not yet. I am negotiating a
        contract to finish my edited version, with maps, in the near future.
        And, I already have had my appendix removed!

        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College

        >>> "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com> 10/27/07 8:46 PM >>>
        Jake,

        We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope maps
        to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
        let me know.

        Larry

        --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
        <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort of
        pharonic curse on this manuscript.
        >
        > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
        well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
        >
        > --j
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
        > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
        >
        > Jake,
        >
        > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will be
        > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
        > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
        > wonderful.
        >
        > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
        saw
        > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
        Good
        > luck on our recovery.
        >
        > Larry
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
        > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
        > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
        > >
        > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
        > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when last
        I
        > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
        > >
        > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
        > >
        > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work left
        on
        > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
        the
        > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
        > appendix.
        > >
        > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
        > poisoning
        > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
        ever
        > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
        > >
        > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release date.
        As
        > I
        > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
        > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
        it'll
        > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
        > physically
        > > produce books.
        > >
        > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going to
        > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
        for
        > > Xmas deliveries.
        > >
        > > All best,
        > >
        > > --jake
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail. yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • eighth_conn_inf
        Jake, I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps. Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a profit but to contribute
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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          Jake,

          I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

          Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
          profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I would
          buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
          printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

          Larry

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
          <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
          >
          > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
          isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set
          of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
          color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
          shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
          years to a project like the Carman atlas.
          >
          > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of
          Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
          second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
          database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access
          to them at all.
          >
          > Best,
          >
          > --j
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
          >
          > Jake,
          >
          > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
          maps
          > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
          > let me know.
          >
          > Larry
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
          > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
          of
          > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
          > >
          > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
          > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
          > >
          > > --j
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message ----
          > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
          > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
          > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
          > >
          > > Jake,
          > >
          > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
          be
          > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
          > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
          > > wonderful.
          > >
          > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
          > saw
          > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
          > Good
          > > luck on our recovery.
          > >
          > > Larry
          > >
          > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
          > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
          > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
          > > >
          > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
          > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
          last
          > I
          > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
          > > >
          > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
          > > >
          > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
          left
          > on
          > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
          > the
          > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
          > > appendix.
          > > >
          > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
          > > poisoning
          > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
          > ever
          > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
          > > >
          > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
          date.
          > As
          > > I
          > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
          > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
          > it'll
          > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
          > > physically
          > > > produce books.
          > > >
          > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
          to
          > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
          > for
          > > > Xmas deliveries.
          > > >
          > > > All best,
          > > >
          > > > --jake
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          > > Do You Yahoo!?
          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > > http://mail. yahoo.com
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • G E Mayers
          Larry; That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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            Larry;

            That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
            Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


            Jake,

            I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

            Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
            profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
            would
            buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
            printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

            Larry

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
            <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
            >
            > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
            > Books
            isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
            set
            of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
            color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
            shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
            recent
            years to a project like the Carman atlas.
            >
            > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
            > Library of
            Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
            second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
            database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
            access
            to them at all.
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > --j
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            >
            > Jake,
            >
            > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
            > Carmen-Cope
            maps
            > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
            > pls
            > let me know.
            >
            > Larry
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
            > > sort
            of
            > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
            > >
            > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
            > > as
            > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
            > >
            > > --j
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
            > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            > >
            > > Jake,
            > >
            > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
            > > will
            be
            > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
            > > late,
            > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
            > > wonderful.
            > >
            > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
            > > first
            > saw
            > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
            > > done.
            > Good
            > > luck on our recovery.
            > >
            > > Larry
            > >
            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
            > > > the
            > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
            > > >
            > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
            > > > from
            > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
            last
            > I
            > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
            > > >
            > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
            > > >
            > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
            left
            > on
            > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
            > > > to
            > the
            > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
            > > appendix.
            > > >
            > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
            > > poisoning
            > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
            > > > hospital
            > ever
            > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
            > > >
            > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
            date.
            > As
            > > I
            > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
            > > > 100%
            > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
            > > > done,
            > it'll
            > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
            > > physically
            > > > produce books.
            > > >
            > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
            > > > going
            to
            > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
            > > > time
            > for
            > > > Xmas deliveries.
            > > >
            > > > All best,
            > > >
            > > > --jake
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
            > > around
            > > http://mail. yahoo.com
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Joseph Pierro
            That s the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my publishers decided we couldn t use them in my book). The information contained on them is so
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say, any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.

              Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one. About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each day).

              Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is repoduce an already extant set of maps.

              From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

              Jake,

              I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

              Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
              profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I would
              buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
              printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

              Larry

              --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
              isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set
              of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
              color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
              shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
              years to a project like the Carman atlas.
              >
              > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of
              Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
              second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
              database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access
              to them at all.
              >
              > Best,
              >
              > --j
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              >
              > Jake,
              >
              > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
              maps
              > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
              > let me know.
              >
              > Larry
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
              of
              > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
              > >
              > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
              > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
              > >
              > > --j
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
              > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              > >
              > > Jake,
              > >
              > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
              be
              > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
              > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
              > > wonderful.
              > >
              > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
              > saw
              > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
              > Good
              > > luck on our recovery.
              > >
              > > Larry
              > >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
              > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
              > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
              > > >
              > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
              > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
              last
              > I
              > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
              > > >
              > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
              > > >
              > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
              left
              > on
              > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
              > the
              > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
              > > appendix.
              > > >
              > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
              > > poisoning
              > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
              > ever
              > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
              > > >
              > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
              date.
              > As
              > > I
              > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
              > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
              > it'll
              > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
              > > physically
              > > > produce books.
              > > >
              > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
              to
              > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
              > for
              > > > Xmas deliveries.
              > > >
              > > > All best,
              > > >
              > > > --jake
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > > http://mail. yahoo.com
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail. yahoo.com
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • eighth_conn_inf
              Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman s maps? I didn t realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier one. Is the CD
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier
                one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                version?

                The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is the
                crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of the
                atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two versions
                by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you are
                correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using high
                res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.

                The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                print an order as well as any marketing expenses.

                Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?

                Larry


                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                >
                > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information
                contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas
                plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                >
                > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one.
                About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg
                did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did
                three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                day).
                >
                > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is
                repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                >
                > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                >
                > Jake,
                >
                > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                >
                > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                would
                > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                >
                > Larry
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > >
                > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                set
                > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                > >
                > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                of
                > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                access
                > to them at all.
                > >
                > > Best,
                > >
                > > --j
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message ----
                > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                > >
                > > Jake,
                > >
                > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                > maps
                > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                pls
                > > let me know.
                > >
                > > Larry
                > >
                > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                > of
                > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                > > >
                > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                as
                > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                > > >
                > > > --j
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ----- Original Message ----
                > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                > > >
                > > > Jake,
                > > >
                > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                will
                > be
                > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                > > > wonderful.
                > > >
                > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                first
                > > saw
                > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                > > Good
                > > > luck on our recovery.
                > > >
                > > > Larry
                > > >
                > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                the
                > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                > > > >
                > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                from
                > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                > last
                > > I
                > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                > > > >
                > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                > > > >
                > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                > left
                > > on
                > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                to
                > > the
                > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                > > > appendix.
                > > > >
                > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                > > > poisoning
                > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                > > ever
                > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                > > > >
                > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                > date.
                > > As
                > > > I
                > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                > > it'll
                > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                > > > physically
                > > > > produce books.
                > > > >
                > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                going
                > to
                > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                time
                > > for
                > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                > > > >
                > > > > All best,
                > > > >
                > > > > --jake
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • eighth_conn_inf
                Gerry, You have a good suggestion. I m sure SHAF would be concerned about making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those costs would be
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gerry,

                  You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                  making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
                  costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                  shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
                  of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
                  they would like after the initial sets are sold.

                  Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?

                  Larry



                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Larry;
                  >
                  > That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
                  > Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  >
                  >
                  > Jake,
                  >
                  > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                  >
                  > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                  > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                  > would
                  > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                  > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                  >
                  > Larry
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                  > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                  > > Books
                  > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                  > set
                  > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                  > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                  > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                  > recent
                  > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                  > >
                  > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                  > > Library of
                  > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                  > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                  > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                  > access
                  > to them at all.
                  > >
                  > > Best,
                  > >
                  > > --j
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
                  > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                  > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  > >
                  > > Jake,
                  > >
                  > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                  > > Carmen-Cope
                  > maps
                  > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                  > > pls
                  > > let me know.
                  > >
                  > > Larry
                  > >
                  > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                  > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                  > > > sort
                  > of
                  > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                  > > >
                  > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                  > > > as
                  > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                  > > >
                  > > > --j
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                  > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                  > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  > > >
                  > > > Jake,
                  > > >
                  > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                  > > > will
                  > be
                  > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                  > > > late,
                  > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                  > > > wonderful.
                  > > >
                  > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                  > > > first
                  > > saw
                  > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                  > > > done.
                  > > Good
                  > > > luck on our recovery.
                  > > >
                  > > > Larry
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                  > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                  > > > > the
                  > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                  > > > > from
                  > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                  > last
                  > > I
                  > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                  > > > >
                  > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                  > left
                  > > on
                  > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                  > > > > to
                  > > the
                  > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                  > > > appendix.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                  > > > poisoning
                  > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                  > > > > hospital
                  > > ever
                  > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                  > date.
                  > > As
                  > > > I
                  > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                  > > > > 100%
                  > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                  > > > > done,
                  > > it'll
                  > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                  > > > physically
                  > > > > produce books.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                  > > > > going
                  > to
                  > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                  > > > > time
                  > > for
                  > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > All best,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --jake
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                  > > > around
                  > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > __________________________________________________
                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • Thomas Clemens
                  Larry, Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them large enough to be
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Larry,
                    Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing
                    copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them large
                    enough to be legible is pretty pricey and we didn't think we could sell
                    enough to make it worthwhile. Given the access of the LOC site, it is
                    less likely now. If you have any ideas about production, we have 8x10
                    photo negatives of all fourteen maps.


                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College



                    >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/29/2007 8:27 AM
                    >>>
                    Jake,

                    I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

                    Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                    profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I would
                    buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                    printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

                    Larry

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                    <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                    isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set
                    of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                    color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                    shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                    years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                    >
                    > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of
                    Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                    second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                    database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access
                    to them at all.
                    >
                    > Best,
                    >
                    > --j
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message ----
                    > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    >
                    > Jake,
                    >
                    > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                    maps
                    > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
                    > let me know.
                    >
                    > Larry
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                    > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                    of
                    > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                    > >
                    > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
                    > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                    > >
                    > > --j
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message ----
                    > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                    > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                    > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                    > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    > >
                    > > Jake,
                    > >
                    > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
                    be
                    > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                    > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                    > > wonderful.
                    > >
                    > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
                    > saw
                    > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                    > Good
                    > > luck on our recovery.
                    > >
                    > > Larry
                    > >
                    > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                    > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
                    > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
                    > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                    last
                    > I
                    > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                    > > >
                    > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                    > > >
                    > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                    left
                    > on
                    > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
                    > the
                    > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                    > > appendix.
                    > > >
                    > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                    > > poisoning
                    > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                    > ever
                    > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                    > > >
                    > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                    date.
                    > As
                    > > I
                    > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                    > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                    > it'll
                    > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                    > > physically
                    > > > produce books.
                    > > >
                    > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
                    to
                    > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
                    > for
                    > > > Xmas deliveries.
                    > > >
                    > > > All best,
                    > > >
                    > > > --jake
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Stephen Recker
                    I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move fast and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can t imagine that would
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move fast
                      and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can't
                      imagine that would be a big money maker. Perhaps offering them on a
                      print-on-demand basis?

                      Stephen

                      On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 09:25 AM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

                      > You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                      > making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
                      > costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                      > shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
                      > of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
                      > they would like after the initial sets are sold.
                      >
                      > Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?
                      >
                    • Joseph Pierro
                      Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they re BOTH of the first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me

                        How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular plate.

                        I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.

                        As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the Gettysburg VC.


                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                        Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                        maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier
                        one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                        version?

                        The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is the
                        crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of the
                        atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two versions
                        by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you are
                        correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using high
                        res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                        students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.

                        The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                        cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                        set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                        include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                        print an order as well as any marketing expenses.

                        Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?

                        Larry


                        --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                        <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                        publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information
                        contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                        any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                        bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas
                        plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                        >
                        > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one.
                        About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg
                        did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did
                        three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                        day).
                        >
                        > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                        woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is
                        repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                        >
                        > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                        image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                        scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                        sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message ----
                        > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                        > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                        >
                        > Jake,
                        >
                        > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                        >
                        > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                        > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                        would
                        > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                        > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                        >
                        > Larry
                        >
                        > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                        > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                        > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                        set
                        > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                        > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                        > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                        > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                        > >
                        > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                        of
                        > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                        > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                        > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                        access
                        > to them at all.
                        > >
                        > > Best,
                        > >
                        > > --j
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message ----
                        > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                        > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                        > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                        > >
                        > > Jake,
                        > >
                        > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                        > maps
                        > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                        pls
                        > > let me know.
                        > >
                        > > Larry
                        > >
                        > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                        > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                        > of
                        > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                        > > >
                        > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                        as
                        > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                        > > >
                        > > > --j
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ----- Original Message ----
                        > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                        > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                        > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                        > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                        > > >
                        > > > Jake,
                        > > >
                        > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                        will
                        > be
                        > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                        > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                        > > > wonderful.
                        > > >
                        > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                        first
                        > > saw
                        > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                        > > Good
                        > > > luck on our recovery.
                        > > >
                        > > > Larry
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                        > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                        the
                        > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                        from
                        > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                        > last
                        > > I
                        > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                        > > > >
                        > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                        > left
                        > > on
                        > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                        to
                        > > the
                        > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                        > > > appendix.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                        > > > poisoning
                        > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                        > > ever
                        > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                        > date.
                        > > As
                        > > > I
                        > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                        > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                        > > it'll
                        > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                        > > > physically
                        > > > > produce books.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                        going
                        > to
                        > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                        time
                        > > for
                        > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > All best,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --jake
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                        > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        > http://mail. yahoo.com
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >




                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        http://mail.yahoo.com

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Joseph Pierro
                        Yes, the full Bachelder set of 28 maps (37 x 27 1/2 ) was reprinted in color by Morningside Books of Dayton, Ohio, some years ago. The item still appears on
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Yes, the full Bachelder set of 28 maps (37" x 27 1/2") was reprinted in color by Morningside Books of Dayton, Ohio, some years ago. The item still appears on their website (morningsidebooksDOTcom).

                          What would it cost to make a reproducable image of each Carman map? What is the production cost to print them? What's the market demand for the map sets? I couldn't begin to answer any of these questions. (Fairly or not, Gettysburg exists on an order of magnitude apart from any other CW battle in terms of marketplace interest.)

                          My sense, though, is that if any non profit were to try and tackle such a project, they'd need to apply for a grant from some organization or foundation to cover the costs. I'd be REALLY surprised if the economics of such an undertaking would allow such a project to break even, let alone run in the black.

                          --jake


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:25:45 AM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                          Gerry,

                          You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                          making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
                          costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                          shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
                          of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
                          they would like after the initial sets are sold.

                          Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?

                          Larry

                          --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@. ..>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Larry;
                          >
                          > That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
                          > Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.
                          >
                          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >
                          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                          > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                          > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          >
                          >
                          > Jake,
                          >
                          > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                          >
                          > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                          > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                          > would
                          > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                          > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                          >
                          > Larry
                          >
                          > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                          > <joseph_pierro@ > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                          > > Books
                          > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                          > set
                          > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                          > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                          > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                          > recent
                          > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                          > >
                          > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                          > > Library of
                          > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                          > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                          > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                          > access
                          > to them at all.
                          > >
                          > > Best,
                          > >
                          > > --j
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message ----
                          > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                          > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          > >
                          > > Jake,
                          > >
                          > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                          > > Carmen-Cope
                          > maps
                          > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                          > > pls
                          > > let me know.
                          > >
                          > > Larry
                          > >
                          > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                          > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                          > > > sort
                          > of
                          > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                          > > >
                          > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                          > > > as
                          > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                          > > >
                          > > > --j
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ----- Original Message ----
                          > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                          > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                          > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          > > >
                          > > > Jake,
                          > > >
                          > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                          > > > will
                          > be
                          > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                          > > > late,
                          > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                          > > > wonderful.
                          > > >
                          > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                          > > > first
                          > > saw
                          > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                          > > > done.
                          > > Good
                          > > > luck on our recovery.
                          > > >
                          > > > Larry
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                          > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                          > > > > the
                          > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                          > > > > from
                          > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                          > last
                          > > I
                          > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                          > > > >
                          > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                          > left
                          > > on
                          > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                          > > > > to
                          > > the
                          > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                          > > > appendix.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                          > > > poisoning
                          > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                          > > > > hospital
                          > > ever
                          > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                          > date.
                          > > As
                          > > > I
                          > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                          > > > > 100%
                          > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                          > > > > done,
                          > > it'll
                          > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                          > > > physically
                          > > > > produce books.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                          > > > > going
                          > to
                          > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                          > > > > time
                          > > for
                          > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > All best,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --jake
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                          > > > around
                          > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >




                          __________________________________________________
                          Do You Yahoo!?
                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          http://mail.yahoo.com

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • G E Mayers
                          Joe; The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Joe;

                            The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


                            > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                            > scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                            > first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                            > edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                            > edition--is beyond me
                            >
                            > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                            > Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                            > justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                            > that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                            > position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                            > edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                            > of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                            > that was left off of a particular plate.
                            >
                            > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                            > say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                            > appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                            > edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                            >
                            > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                            > (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                            > interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                            > Gettysburg VC.
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message ----
                            > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            >
                            > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                            > Carman's
                            > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                            > earlier
                            > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                            > version?
                            >
                            > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                            > is the
                            > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                            > of the
                            > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                            > versions
                            > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                            > you are
                            > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                            > high
                            > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                            > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                            >
                            > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                            > the
                            > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                            > $250 a
                            > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                            > include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                            > would
                            > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                            >
                            > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                            >
                            > Larry
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                            > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                            > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                            > information
                            > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                            > say,
                            > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                            > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                            > Atlas
                            > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                            >>
                            >> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                            >> one.
                            > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                            > Gettysburg
                            > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                            > Desjardin did
                            > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                            > each
                            > day).
                            >>
                            >> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                            >> you
                            > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                            > do is
                            > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                            >>
                            >> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                            > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                            > high-res
                            > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                            > on a
                            > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ----- Original Message ----
                            >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                            >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                            >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            >>
                            >> Jake,
                            >>
                            >> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                            >>
                            >> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make
                            >> a
                            >> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                            > would
                            >> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                            >> being
                            >> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                            >>
                            >> Larry
                            >>
                            >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                            >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            >> >
                            >> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                            >> > Books
                            >> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                            >> full
                            > set
                            >> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                            >> full
                            >> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                            >> (they
                            >> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                            >> recent
                            >> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                            >> >
                            >> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                            >> > Library
                            > of
                            >> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                            >> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                            >> digital
                            >> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                            > access
                            >> to them at all.
                            >> >
                            >> > Best,
                            >> >
                            >> > --j
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> > ----- Original Message ----
                            >> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                            >> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            >> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                            >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            >> >
                            >> > Jake,
                            >> >
                            >> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                            >> > Carmen-Cope
                            >> maps
                            >> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                            >> > help,
                            > pls
                            >> > let me know.
                            >> >
                            >> > Larry
                            >> >
                            >> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                            >> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            >> > >
                            >> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                            >> > > sort
                            >> of
                            >> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                            >> > >
                            >> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                            >> > > might
                            > as
                            >> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                            >> > >
                            >> > > --j
                            >> > >
                            >> > >
                            >> > > ----- Original Message ----
                            >> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                            >> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                            >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            >> > >
                            >> > > Jake,
                            >> > >
                            >> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                            >> > > you
                            > will
                            >> be
                            >> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                            >> > > late,
                            >> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will
                            >> > > be
                            >> > > wonderful.
                            >> > >
                            >> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                            > first
                            >> > saw
                            >> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                            >> > > done.
                            >> > Good
                            >> > > luck on our recovery.
                            >> > >
                            >> > > Larry
                            >> > >
                            >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                            >> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                            >> > > > on
                            > the
                            >> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                            >> > > > coming
                            > from
                            >> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                            >> > > > when
                            >> last
                            >> > I
                            >> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                            >> > > > work
                            >> left
                            >> > on
                            >> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to
                            >> > > > go
                            > to
                            >> > the
                            >> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                            >> > > > the
                            >> > > appendix.
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                            >> > > > food
                            >> > > poisoning
                            >> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                            >> > > > hospital
                            >> > ever
                            >> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                            >> > > > release
                            >> date.
                            >> > As
                            >> > > I
                            >> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                            >> > > > 100%
                            >> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                            >> > > > done,
                            >> > it'll
                            >> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                            >> > > > then
                            >> > > physically
                            >> > > > produce books.
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                            > going
                            >> to
                            >> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                            >> > > > in
                            > time
                            >> > for
                            >> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > All best,
                            >> > > >
                            >> > > > --jake
                            >> > > >
                            >> > >
                            >> > >
                            >> > >
                            >> > >
                            >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            >> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                            >> > > around
                            >> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                            >> > >
                            >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >> > >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            >> > Do You Yahoo!?
                            >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                            >> > around
                            >> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                            >> >
                            >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >> >
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            >> Do You Yahoo!?
                            >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                            >>
                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            > http://mail.yahoo.com
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                          • Joseph Pierro
                            Gerry: We might be talking past each other. The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that book. The maps themselves predate that, but their
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Gerry:

                              We might be talking past each other.

                              The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first appearance bound in book form is 1904.

                              A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.

                              Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As anyone on this board who has every published anything knows, one is constantly tweaking the final product.)

                              When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.

                              --jake


                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                              Joe;

                              The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                              > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                              > scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                              > first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                              > edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                              > edition--is beyond me
                              >
                              > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                              > Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                              > justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                              > that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                              > position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                              > edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                              > of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                              > that was left off of a particular plate.
                              >
                              > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                              > say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                              > appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                              > edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                              >
                              > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                              > (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                              > interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                              > Gettysburg VC.
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message ----
                              > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
                              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >
                              > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                              > Carman's
                              > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                              > earlier
                              > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                              > version?
                              >
                              > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                              > is the
                              > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                              > of the
                              > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                              > versions
                              > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                              > you are
                              > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                              > high
                              > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                              > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                              >
                              > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                              > the
                              > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                              > $250 a
                              > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                              > include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                              > would
                              > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                              >
                              > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                              >
                              > Larry
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                              > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                              > information
                              > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                              > say,
                              > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                              > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                              > Atlas
                              > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                              >>
                              >> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                              >> one.
                              > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                              > Gettysburg
                              > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                              > Desjardin did
                              > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                              > each
                              > day).
                              >>
                              >> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                              >> you
                              > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                              > do is
                              > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                              >>
                              >> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                              > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                              > high-res
                              > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                              > on a
                              > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ----- Original Message ----
                              >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                              >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                              >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >>
                              >> Jake,
                              >>
                              >> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                              >>
                              >> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make
                              >> a
                              >> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                              > would
                              >> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                              >> being
                              >> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                              >>
                              >> Larry
                              >>
                              >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >> >
                              >> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                              >> > Books
                              >> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                              >> full
                              > set
                              >> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                              >> full
                              >> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                              >> (they
                              >> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                              >> recent
                              >> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                              >> >
                              >> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                              >> > Library
                              > of
                              >> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                              >> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                              >> digital
                              >> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                              > access
                              >> to them at all.
                              >> >
                              >> > Best,
                              >> >
                              >> > --j
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > ----- Original Message ----
                              >> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                              >> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              >> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                              >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >> >
                              >> > Jake,
                              >> >
                              >> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                              >> > Carmen-Cope
                              >> maps
                              >> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                              >> > help,
                              > pls
                              >> > let me know.
                              >> >
                              >> > Larry
                              >> >
                              >> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              >> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                              >> > > sort
                              >> of
                              >> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                              >> > >
                              >> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                              >> > > might
                              > as
                              >> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                              >> > >
                              >> > > --j
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > > ----- Original Message ----
                              >> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                              >> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                              >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Jake,
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                              >> > > you
                              > will
                              >> be
                              >> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                              >> > > late,
                              >> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will
                              >> > > be
                              >> > > wonderful.
                              >> > >
                              >> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                              > first
                              >> > saw
                              >> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                              >> > > done.
                              >> > Good
                              >> > > luck on our recovery.
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Larry
                              >> > >
                              >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                              >> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                              >> > > > on
                              > the
                              >> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                              >> > > > coming
                              > from
                              >> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                              >> > > > when
                              >> last
                              >> > I
                              >> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                              >> > > > work
                              >> left
                              >> > on
                              >> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to
                              >> > > > go
                              > to
                              >> > the
                              >> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                              >> > > > the
                              >> > > appendix.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                              >> > > > food
                              >> > > poisoning
                              >> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                              >> > > > hospital
                              >> > ever
                              >> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                              >> > > > release
                              >> date.
                              >> > As
                              >> > > I
                              >> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                              >> > > > 100%
                              >> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                              >> > > > done,
                              >> > it'll
                              >> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                              >> > > > then
                              >> > > physically
                              >> > > > produce books.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                              > going
                              >> to
                              >> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                              >> > > > in
                              > time
                              >> > for
                              >> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > All best,
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > --jake
                              >> > > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              >> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                              >> > > around
                              >> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              >> > >
                              >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >> > >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              >> > Do You Yahoo!?
                              >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                              >> > around
                              >> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              >> >
                              >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >> >
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              >> Do You Yahoo!?
                              >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >




                              __________________________________________________
                              Do You Yahoo!?
                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • eighth_conn_inf
                              Stephen, Sorry I didn t know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay? If yes, under what category? Do you have another set for sale? Larry F. ...
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Stephen,

                                Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
                                If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?

                                Larry F.


                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move
                                fast
                                > and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can't
                                > imagine that would be a big money maker. Perhaps offering them on a
                                > print-on-demand basis?
                                >
                                > Stephen
                                >
                                > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 09:25 AM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                >
                                > > You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                                > > making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if
                                those
                                > > costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                                > > shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an
                                investment
                                > > of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be
                                something
                                > > they would like after the initial sets are sold.
                                > >
                                > > Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?
                                > >
                                >
                              • G E Mayers
                                Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

                                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:13 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


                                  > Gerry:
                                  >
                                  > We might be talking past each other.
                                  >
                                  > The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that
                                  > book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first
                                  > appearance bound in book form is 1904.
                                  >
                                  > A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.
                                  >
                                  > Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from
                                  > the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As
                                  > anyone on this board who has every published anything knows,
                                  > one is constantly tweaking the final product.)
                                  >
                                  > When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only
                                  > speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the
                                  > individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first
                                  > maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.
                                  >
                                  > --jake
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message ----
                                  > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  >
                                  > Joe;
                                  >
                                  > The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.
                                  >
                                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  >
                                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                  > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                  > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                                  > from
                                  > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                                  > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                  > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  >
                                  >> Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                                  >> scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                                  >> first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                                  >> edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                                  >> edition--is beyond me
                                  >>
                                  >> How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                  >> Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                                  >> justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                                  >> that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                                  >> position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                                  >> edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                                  >> of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                                  >> that was left off of a particular plate.
                                  >>
                                  >> I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                                  >> say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                                  >> appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                                  >> edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                                  >>
                                  >> As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                  >> (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                  >> interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                  >> Gettysburg VC.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> ----- Original Message ----
                                  >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
                                  >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                  >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                  >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  >>
                                  >> Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                                  >> Carman's
                                  >> maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                  >> earlier
                                  >> one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                  >> version?
                                  >>
                                  >> The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                                  >> is the
                                  >> crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                                  >> of the
                                  >> atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                  >> versions
                                  >> by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                                  >> you are
                                  >> correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals
                                  >> using
                                  >> high
                                  >> res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most
                                  >> serious
                                  >> students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                  >>
                                  >> The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                                  >> the
                                  >> cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                                  >> $250 a
                                  >> set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                  >> include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                                  >> would
                                  >> print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                  >>
                                  >> Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                  >>
                                  >> Larry
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                  >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle,
                                  >>> my
                                  >> publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                  >> information
                                  >> contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                                  >> say,
                                  >> any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find
                                  >> in
                                  >> bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                  >> Atlas
                                  >> plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                  >>> one.
                                  >> About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                  >> Gettysburg
                                  >> did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                                  >> Desjardin did
                                  >> three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                                  >> each
                                  >> day).
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                                  >>> you
                                  >> woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                                  >> do is
                                  >> repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing
                                  >>> the
                                  >> image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                                  >> high-res
                                  >> scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                                  >> on a
                                  >> sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> ----- Original Message ----
                                  >>> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                                  >>> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                  >>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                  >>> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Jake,
                                  >>>
                                  >>> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to
                                  >>> make
                                  >>> a
                                  >>> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization?
                                  >>> I
                                  >> would
                                  >>> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                                  >>> being
                                  >>> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Larry
                                  >>>
                                  >>> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                  >>> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                  >>> > Books
                                  >>> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                                  >>> full
                                  >> set
                                  >>> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                                  >>> full
                                  >>> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                                  >>> (they
                                  >>> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                  >>> recent
                                  >>> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                  >>> > Library
                                  >> of
                                  >>> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan
                                  >>> the
                                  >>> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                                  >>> digital
                                  >>> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not
                                  >>> having
                                  >> access
                                  >>> to them at all.
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Best,
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > --j
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > ----- Original Message ----
                                  >>> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                  >>> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                  >>> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                  >>> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Jake,
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                                  >>> > Carmen-Cope
                                  >>> maps
                                  >>> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                                  >>> > help,
                                  >> pls
                                  >>> > let me know.
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > Larry
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                  >>> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't
                                  >>> > > some
                                  >>> > > sort
                                  >>> of
                                  >>> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                                  >>> > > might
                                  >> as
                                  >>> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > --j
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > ----- Original Message ----
                                  >>> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                  >>> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                  >>> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                  >>> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > Jake,
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                                  >>> > > you
                                  >> will
                                  >>> be
                                  >>> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                  >>> > > late,
                                  >>> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened
                                  >>> > > will
                                  >>> > > be
                                  >>> > > wonderful.
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when
                                  >>> > > I
                                  >> first
                                  >>> > saw
                                  >>> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                  >>> > > done.
                                  >>> > Good
                                  >>> > > luck on our recovery.
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > Larry
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                  >>> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                                  >>> > > > on
                                  >> the
                                  >>> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                                  >>> > > > coming
                                  >> from
                                  >>> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                                  >>> > > > when
                                  >>> last
                                  >>> > I
                                  >>> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                                  >>> > > > work
                                  >>> left
                                  >>> > on
                                  >>> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready
                                  >>> > > > to
                                  >>> > > > go
                                  >> to
                                  >>> > the
                                  >>> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                                  >>> > > > the
                                  >>> > > appendix.
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                                  >>> > > > food
                                  >>> > > poisoning
                                  >>> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                  >>> > > > hospital
                                  >>> > ever
                                  >>> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                                  >>> > > > release
                                  >>> date.
                                  >>> > As
                                  >>> > > I
                                  >>> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I
                                  >>> > > > was
                                  >>> > > > 100%
                                  >>> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                  >>> > > > done,
                                  >>> > it'll
                                  >>> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                                  >>> > > > then
                                  >>> > > physically
                                  >>> > > > produce books.
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December.
                                  >>> > > > I'm
                                  >> going
                                  >>> to
                                  >>> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                                  >>> > > > in
                                  >> time
                                  >>> > for
                                  >>> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > All best,
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > > > --jake
                                  >>> > > >
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  >>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  >>> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                  >>> > > around
                                  >>> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>> > >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  >>> > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  >>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                  >>> > around
                                  >>> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  >>> >
                                  >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>> >
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  >>> Do You Yahoo!?
                                  >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                  >>> around
                                  >>> http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  >>>
                                  >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                  >> Do You Yahoo!?
                                  >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                                  >>
                                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________________________
                                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                • eighth_conn_inf
                                  I ve only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me. ... eBay?
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I've only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me.

                                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Larry,
                                    >
                                    > Sorry. All gone. No more.
                                    >
                                    > Stephen
                                    >
                                    > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on
                                    eBay?
                                    > > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Stephen Recker
                                    Larry, Sorry. All gone. No more. Stephen
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Larry,

                                      Sorry. All gone. No more.

                                      Stephen

                                      On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

                                      > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
                                      > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
                                      >
                                    • Brian Richardson
                                      There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves have a 1904 date. Brian
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
                                        accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
                                        have a 1904 date.

                                        Brian Richardson


                                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                        <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
                                        the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
                                        edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
                                        instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
                                        >
                                        > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                        Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
                                        reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
                                        will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
                                        regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
                                        in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
                                        the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
                                        plate.
                                        >
                                        > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
                                        which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
                                        somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
                                        it's the 2d.
                                        >
                                        > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                        (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                        interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                        Gettysburg VC.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                                        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                        >
                                        > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                                        > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                        earlier
                                        > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                        > version?
                                        >
                                        > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
                                        the
                                        > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
                                        the
                                        > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                        versions
                                        > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
                                        are
                                        > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                                        high
                                        > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                                        > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                        >
                                        > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                                        > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                                        > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                        > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                                        > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                        >
                                        > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                        >
                                        > Larry
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                        > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                                        > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                        information
                                        > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                                        > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                                        > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                        Atlas
                                        > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                        > >
                                        > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                        one.
                                        > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                        Gettysburg
                                        > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
                                        did
                                        > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                                        > day).
                                        > >
                                        > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                                        > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
                                        is
                                        > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                        > >
                                        > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                                        > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                                        > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                                        > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                        > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                        > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                        > >
                                        > > Jake,
                                        > >
                                        > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                        > >
                                        > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                        > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                        > would
                                        > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                        > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                        > >
                                        > > Larry
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                        > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                        Books
                                        > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                        > set
                                        > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                        > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                        > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                        recent
                                        > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                        Library
                                        > of
                                        > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                        > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                        > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                        > access
                                        > > to them at all.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Best,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --j
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                        > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                        > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Jake,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
                                        Cope
                                        > > maps
                                        > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                                        > pls
                                        > > > let me know.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Larry
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                        > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                                        sort
                                        > > of
                                        > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                                        > as
                                        > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --j
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                        > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                        > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Jake,
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                                        > will
                                        > > be
                                        > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                        late,
                                        > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                        > > > > wonderful.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                                        > first
                                        > > > saw
                                        > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                        done.
                                        > > > Good
                                        > > > > luck on our recovery.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Larry
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                        > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                                        > the
                                        > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                                        > from
                                        > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                        > > last
                                        > > > I
                                        > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                        > > left
                                        > > > on
                                        > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                                        > to
                                        > > > the
                                        > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                        > > > > appendix.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                        > > > > poisoning
                                        > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                        hospital
                                        > > > ever
                                        > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                        > > date.
                                        > > > As
                                        > > > > I
                                        > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                                        100%
                                        > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                        done,
                                        > > > it'll
                                        > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                        > > > > physically
                                        > > > > > produce books.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                                        > going
                                        > > to
                                        > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                                        > time
                                        > > > for
                                        > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > All best,
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --jake
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                        > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                        around
                                        > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                        > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                        > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                        > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > __________________________________________________
                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                        > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • Joseph Pierro
                                        If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they re from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas. Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I m
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Oct 30, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they're from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas.

                                          Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I'm willing to bet that the CD was made from the same set of scans that the LoC has now made available on its website.


                                          ----- Original Message ----
                                          From: Brian Richardson <BrianSRich@...>
                                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:53:07 AM
                                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                                          There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
                                          accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
                                          have a 1904 date.

                                          Brian Richardson

                                          --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                          <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
                                          the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
                                          edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
                                          instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
                                          >
                                          > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                          Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
                                          reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
                                          will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
                                          regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
                                          in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
                                          the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
                                          plate.
                                          >
                                          > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
                                          which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
                                          somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
                                          it's the 2d.
                                          >
                                          > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                          (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                          interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                          Gettysburg VC.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                                          > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                          >
                                          > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                                          > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                          earlier
                                          > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                          > version?
                                          >
                                          > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
                                          the
                                          > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
                                          the
                                          > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                          versions
                                          > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
                                          are
                                          > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                                          high
                                          > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                                          > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                          >
                                          > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                                          > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                                          > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                          > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                                          > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                          >
                                          > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                          >
                                          > Larry
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                          > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                                          > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                          information
                                          > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                                          > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                                          > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                          Atlas
                                          > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                          > >
                                          > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                          one.
                                          > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                          Gettysburg
                                          > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
                                          did
                                          > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                                          > day).
                                          > >
                                          > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                                          > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
                                          is
                                          > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                          > >
                                          > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                                          > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                                          > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                                          > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                          > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                          > >
                                          > > Jake,
                                          > >
                                          > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                          > >
                                          > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                          > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                          > would
                                          > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                          > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                          > >
                                          > > Larry
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                          > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                          Books
                                          > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                          > set
                                          > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                          > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                          > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                          recent
                                          > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                          Library
                                          > of
                                          > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                          > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                          > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                          > access
                                          > > to them at all.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Best,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --j
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                          > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                          > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Jake,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
                                          Cope
                                          > > maps
                                          > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                                          > pls
                                          > > > let me know.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Larry
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                          > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                                          sort
                                          > > of
                                          > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                                          > as
                                          > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --j
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                          > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                          > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jake,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                                          > will
                                          > > be
                                          > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                          late,
                                          > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                          > > > > wonderful.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                                          > first
                                          > > > saw
                                          > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                          done.
                                          > > > Good
                                          > > > > luck on our recovery.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Larry
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                          > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                                          > the
                                          > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                                          > from
                                          > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                          > > last
                                          > > > I
                                          > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                          > > left
                                          > > > on
                                          > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                                          > to
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                          > > > > appendix.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                          > > > > poisoning
                                          > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                          hospital
                                          > > > ever
                                          > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                          > > date.
                                          > > > As
                                          > > > > I
                                          > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                                          100%
                                          > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                          done,
                                          > > > it'll
                                          > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                          > > > > physically
                                          > > > > > produce books.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                                          > going
                                          > > to
                                          > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                                          > time
                                          > > > for
                                          > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > All best,
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --jake
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                          > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                          around
                                          > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                          > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                          > > >
                                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >




                                          __________________________________________________
                                          Do You Yahoo!?
                                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          http://mail.yahoo.com

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • eighth_conn_inf
                                          Jake, Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@hotmail.com with a question re your pub date moved to January 2008? Thank you, Larry Freiheit ... maps ... of
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Dec 17, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Jake,

                                            Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@... with a
                                            question re your pub date moved to January 2008?

                                            Thank you,

                                            Larry Freiheit


                                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
                                            <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Jake,
                                            >
                                            > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                                            maps
                                            > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
                                            > let me know.
                                            >
                                            > Larry
                                            >
                                            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                            > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                                            of
                                            > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                            > >
                                            > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
                                            > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                            > >
                                            > > --j
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ----- Original Message ----
                                            > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
                                            > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                            > >
                                            > > Jake,
                                            > >
                                            > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
                                            be
                                            > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                                            > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                            > > wonderful.
                                            > >
                                            > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
                                            > saw
                                            > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                                            > Good
                                            > > luck on our recovery.
                                            > >
                                            > > Larry
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
                                            > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
                                            > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                            last
                                            > I
                                            > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                            > > >
                                            > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                            left
                                            > on
                                            > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
                                            > the
                                            > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                            > > appendix.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                            > > poisoning
                                            > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                                            > ever
                                            > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                            > > >
                                            > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                            date.
                                            > As
                                            > > I
                                            > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                                            > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                                            > it'll
                                            > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                            > > physically
                                            > > > produce books.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
                                            to
                                            > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
                                            > for
                                            > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > All best,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --jake
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > __________________________________________________
                                            > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • eighth_conn_inf
                                            Tom, I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version? Larry ... large ... sell
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Dec 31, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Tom,

                                              I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any
                                              specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version?

                                              Larry


                                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Larry,
                                              > Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing
                                              > copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them
                                              large
                                              > enough to be legible is pretty pricey and we didn't think we could
                                              sell
                                              > enough to make it worthwhile. Given the access of the LOC site, it
                                              is
                                              > less likely now. If you have any ideas about production, we have
                                              8x10
                                              > photo negatives of all fourteen maps.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                              > Professor of History
                                              > Hagerstown Community College
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/29/2007 8:27 AM
                                              > >>>
                                              > Jake,
                                              >
                                              > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                              >
                                              > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                              > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                              would
                                              > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                              > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                              >
                                              > Larry
                                              >
                                              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                              > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                                              > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                              set
                                              > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                              > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                              > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                                              > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                              > >
                                              > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                                              of
                                              > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                              > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                              > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                              access
                                              > to them at all.
                                              > >
                                              > > Best,
                                              > >
                                              > > --j
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