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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Well, it did not curse me, at least not yet. I am negotiating a contract to finish my edited version, with maps, in the near future. And, I already have had
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 28, 2007
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      Well, it did not curse me, at least not yet. I am negotiating a
      contract to finish my edited version, with maps, in the near future.
      And, I already have had my appendix removed!

      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/27/07 8:46 PM >>>
      Jake,

      We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope maps
      to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
      let me know.

      Larry

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
      <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort of
      pharonic curse on this manuscript.
      >
      > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
      well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
      >
      > --j
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
      >
      > Jake,
      >
      > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will be
      > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
      > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
      > wonderful.
      >
      > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
      saw
      > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
      Good
      > luck on our recovery.
      >
      > Larry
      >
      > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
      > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
      > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
      > >
      > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
      > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when last
      I
      > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
      > >
      > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
      > >
      > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work left
      on
      > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
      the
      > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
      > appendix.
      > >
      > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
      > poisoning
      > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
      ever
      > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
      > >
      > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release date.
      As
      > I
      > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
      > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
      it'll
      > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
      > physically
      > > produce books.
      > >
      > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going to
      > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
      for
      > > Xmas deliveries.
      > >
      > > All best,
      > >
      > > --jake
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do You Yahoo!?
      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      > http://mail.yahoo.com
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Joseph Pierro
      You know, it s a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books isn t with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set of Bachelder maps from
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 28, 2007
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        You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent years to a project like the Carman atlas.

        Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access to them at all.

        Best,

        --j


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

        Jake,

        We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope maps
        to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
        let me know.

        Larry

        --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
        <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort of
        pharonic curse on this manuscript.
        >
        > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
        well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
        >
        > --j
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
        > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
        >
        > Jake,
        >
        > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will be
        > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
        > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
        > wonderful.
        >
        > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
        saw
        > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
        Good
        > luck on our recovery.
        >
        > Larry
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
        > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
        > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
        > >
        > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
        > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when last
        I
        > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
        > >
        > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
        > >
        > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work left
        on
        > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
        the
        > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
        > appendix.
        > >
        > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
        > poisoning
        > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
        ever
        > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
        > >
        > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release date.
        As
        > I
        > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
        > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
        it'll
        > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
        > physically
        > > produce books.
        > >
        > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going to
        > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
        for
        > > Xmas deliveries.
        > >
        > > All best,
        > >
        > > --jake
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail. yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Joseph Pierro
        Congrats, Tom!!! I m glad to know your work too may come to fruition. As for that curse, though, your manuscript isn t finished yet. Give it time. ;) --j ...
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 28, 2007
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          Congrats, Tom!!! I'm glad to know your work too may come to fruition.

          As for that curse, though, your manuscript isn't finished yet. Give it time. ;)

          --j


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...>
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 9:40:27 AM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

          Well, it did not curse me, at least not yet. I am negotiating a
          contract to finish my edited version, with maps, in the near future.
          And, I already have had my appendix removed!

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College

          >>> "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com> 10/27/07 8:46 PM >>>
          Jake,

          We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope maps
          to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
          let me know.

          Larry

          --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
          <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort of
          pharonic curse on this manuscript.
          >
          > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
          well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
          >
          > --j
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
          > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
          > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
          >
          > Jake,
          >
          > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will be
          > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
          > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
          > wonderful.
          >
          > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
          saw
          > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
          Good
          > luck on our recovery.
          >
          > Larry
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
          > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
          > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
          > >
          > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
          > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when last
          I
          > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
          > >
          > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
          > >
          > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work left
          on
          > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
          the
          > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
          > appendix.
          > >
          > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
          > poisoning
          > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
          ever
          > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
          > >
          > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release date.
          As
          > I
          > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
          > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
          it'll
          > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
          > physically
          > > produce books.
          > >
          > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going to
          > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
          for
          > > Xmas deliveries.
          > >
          > > All best,
          > >
          > > --jake
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail. yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >




          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • eighth_conn_inf
          Jake, I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps. Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a profit but to contribute
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Jake,

            I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

            Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
            profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I would
            buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
            printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

            Larry

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
            <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
            >
            > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
            isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set
            of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
            color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
            shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
            years to a project like the Carman atlas.
            >
            > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of
            Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
            second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
            database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access
            to them at all.
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > --j
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            >
            > Jake,
            >
            > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
            maps
            > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
            > let me know.
            >
            > Larry
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
            > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
            of
            > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
            > >
            > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
            > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
            > >
            > > --j
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message ----
            > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
            > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
            > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
            > >
            > > Jake,
            > >
            > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
            be
            > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
            > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
            > > wonderful.
            > >
            > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
            > saw
            > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
            > Good
            > > luck on our recovery.
            > >
            > > Larry
            > >
            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
            > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
            > > >
            > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
            > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
            last
            > I
            > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
            > > >
            > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
            > > >
            > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
            left
            > on
            > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
            > the
            > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
            > > appendix.
            > > >
            > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
            > > poisoning
            > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
            > ever
            > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
            > > >
            > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
            date.
            > As
            > > I
            > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
            > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
            > it'll
            > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
            > > physically
            > > > produce books.
            > > >
            > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
            to
            > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
            > for
            > > > Xmas deliveries.
            > > >
            > > > All best,
            > > >
            > > > --jake
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail. yahoo.com
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • G E Mayers
            Larry; That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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              Larry;

              That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
              Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


              Jake,

              I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

              Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
              profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
              would
              buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
              printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

              Larry

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
              <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
              >
              > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
              > Books
              isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
              set
              of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
              color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
              shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
              recent
              years to a project like the Carman atlas.
              >
              > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
              > Library of
              Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
              second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
              database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
              access
              to them at all.
              >
              > Best,
              >
              > --j
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              >
              > Jake,
              >
              > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
              > Carmen-Cope
              maps
              > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
              > pls
              > let me know.
              >
              > Larry
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
              > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
              > > sort
              of
              > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
              > >
              > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
              > > as
              > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
              > >
              > > --j
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
              > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
              > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
              > >
              > > Jake,
              > >
              > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
              > > will
              be
              > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
              > > late,
              > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
              > > wonderful.
              > >
              > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
              > > first
              > saw
              > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
              > > done.
              > Good
              > > luck on our recovery.
              > >
              > > Larry
              > >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
              > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
              > > > the
              > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
              > > >
              > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
              > > > from
              > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
              last
              > I
              > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
              > > >
              > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
              > > >
              > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
              left
              > on
              > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
              > > > to
              > the
              > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
              > > appendix.
              > > >
              > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
              > > poisoning
              > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
              > > > hospital
              > ever
              > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
              > > >
              > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
              date.
              > As
              > > I
              > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
              > > > 100%
              > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
              > > > done,
              > it'll
              > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
              > > physically
              > > > produce books.
              > > >
              > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
              > > > going
              to
              > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
              > > > time
              > for
              > > > Xmas deliveries.
              > > >
              > > > All best,
              > > >
              > > > --jake
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
              > > around
              > > http://mail. yahoo.com
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Joseph Pierro
              That s the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my publishers decided we couldn t use them in my book). The information contained on them is so
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say, any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.

                Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one. About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each day).

                Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is repoduce an already extant set of maps.

                From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                Jake,

                I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

                Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I would
                buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

                Larry

                --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set
                of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                >
                > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of
                Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access
                to them at all.
                >
                > Best,
                >
                > --j
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                >
                > Jake,
                >
                > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                maps
                > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
                > let me know.
                >
                > Larry
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                of
                > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                > >
                > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
                > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                > >
                > > --j
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message ----
                > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                > >
                > > Jake,
                > >
                > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
                be
                > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                > > wonderful.
                > >
                > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
                > saw
                > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                > Good
                > > luck on our recovery.
                > >
                > > Larry
                > >
                > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
                > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                > > >
                > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
                > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                last
                > I
                > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                > > >
                > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                > > >
                > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                left
                > on
                > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
                > the
                > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                > > appendix.
                > > >
                > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                > > poisoning
                > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                > ever
                > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                > > >
                > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                date.
                > As
                > > I
                > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                > it'll
                > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                > > physically
                > > > produce books.
                > > >
                > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
                to
                > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
                > for
                > > > Xmas deliveries.
                > > >
                > > > All best,
                > > >
                > > > --jake
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail. yahoo.com
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • eighth_conn_inf
                Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman s maps? I didn t realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier one. Is the CD
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                  maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier
                  one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                  version?

                  The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is the
                  crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of the
                  atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two versions
                  by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you are
                  correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using high
                  res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                  students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.

                  The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                  cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                  set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                  include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                  print an order as well as any marketing expenses.

                  Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?

                  Larry


                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                  <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                  publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information
                  contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                  any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                  bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas
                  plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                  >
                  > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one.
                  About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg
                  did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did
                  three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                  day).
                  >
                  > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                  woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is
                  repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                  >
                  > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                  image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                  scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                  sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message ----
                  > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  >
                  > Jake,
                  >
                  > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                  >
                  > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                  > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                  would
                  > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                  > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                  >
                  > Larry
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                  > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                  > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                  set
                  > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                  > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                  > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                  > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                  > >
                  > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                  of
                  > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                  > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                  > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                  access
                  > to them at all.
                  > >
                  > > Best,
                  > >
                  > > --j
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                  > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                  > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  > >
                  > > Jake,
                  > >
                  > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                  > maps
                  > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                  pls
                  > > let me know.
                  > >
                  > > Larry
                  > >
                  > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                  > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                  > of
                  > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                  > > >
                  > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                  as
                  > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                  > > >
                  > > > --j
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----- Original Message ----
                  > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                  > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                  > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                  > > >
                  > > > Jake,
                  > > >
                  > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                  will
                  > be
                  > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                  > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                  > > > wonderful.
                  > > >
                  > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                  first
                  > > saw
                  > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                  > > Good
                  > > > luck on our recovery.
                  > > >
                  > > > Larry
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                  > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                  the
                  > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                  from
                  > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                  > last
                  > > I
                  > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                  > > > >
                  > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                  > left
                  > > on
                  > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                  to
                  > > the
                  > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                  > > > appendix.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                  > > > poisoning
                  > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                  > > ever
                  > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                  > date.
                  > > As
                  > > > I
                  > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                  > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                  > > it'll
                  > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                  > > > physically
                  > > > > produce books.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                  going
                  > to
                  > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                  time
                  > > for
                  > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > All best,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --jake
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • eighth_conn_inf
                  Gerry, You have a good suggestion. I m sure SHAF would be concerned about making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those costs would be
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Gerry,

                    You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                    making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
                    costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                    shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
                    of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
                    they would like after the initial sets are sold.

                    Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?

                    Larry



                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Larry;
                    >
                    > That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
                    > Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.
                    >
                    > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >
                    > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    >
                    >
                    > Jake,
                    >
                    > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                    >
                    > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                    > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                    > would
                    > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                    > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                    >
                    > Larry
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                    > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                    > > Books
                    > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                    > set
                    > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                    > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                    > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                    > recent
                    > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                    > >
                    > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                    > > Library of
                    > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                    > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                    > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                    > access
                    > to them at all.
                    > >
                    > > Best,
                    > >
                    > > --j
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message ----
                    > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
                    > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                    > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    > >
                    > > Jake,
                    > >
                    > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                    > > Carmen-Cope
                    > maps
                    > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                    > > pls
                    > > let me know.
                    > >
                    > > Larry
                    > >
                    > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                    > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                    > > > sort
                    > of
                    > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                    > > >
                    > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                    > > > as
                    > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                    > > >
                    > > > --j
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ----- Original Message ----
                    > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                    > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                    > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                    > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                    > > >
                    > > > Jake,
                    > > >
                    > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                    > > > will
                    > be
                    > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                    > > > late,
                    > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                    > > > wonderful.
                    > > >
                    > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                    > > > first
                    > > saw
                    > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                    > > > done.
                    > > Good
                    > > > luck on our recovery.
                    > > >
                    > > > Larry
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                    > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                    > > > > from
                    > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                    > last
                    > > I
                    > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                    > > > >
                    > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                    > left
                    > > on
                    > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                    > > > > to
                    > > the
                    > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                    > > > appendix.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                    > > > poisoning
                    > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                    > > > > hospital
                    > > ever
                    > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                    > > > >
                    > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                    > date.
                    > > As
                    > > > I
                    > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                    > > > > 100%
                    > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                    > > > > done,
                    > > it'll
                    > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                    > > > physically
                    > > > > produce books.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                    > > > > going
                    > to
                    > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                    > > > > time
                    > > for
                    > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > All best,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --jake
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                    > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                    > > > around
                    > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    Larry, Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them large enough to be
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Larry,
                      Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing
                      copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them large
                      enough to be legible is pretty pricey and we didn't think we could sell
                      enough to make it worthwhile. Given the access of the LOC site, it is
                      less likely now. If you have any ideas about production, we have 8x10
                      photo negatives of all fourteen maps.


                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College



                      >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/29/2007 8:27 AM
                      >>>
                      Jake,

                      I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.

                      Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                      profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I would
                      buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                      printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.

                      Larry

                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                      <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                      isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full set
                      of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                      color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                      shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                      years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                      >
                      > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library of
                      Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                      second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                      database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having access
                      to them at all.
                      >
                      > Best,
                      >
                      > --j
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      >
                      > Jake,
                      >
                      > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                      maps
                      > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
                      > let me know.
                      >
                      > Larry
                      >
                      > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                      > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                      of
                      > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                      > >
                      > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
                      > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                      > >
                      > > --j
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message ----
                      > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                      > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                      > >
                      > > Jake,
                      > >
                      > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
                      be
                      > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                      > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                      > > wonderful.
                      > >
                      > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
                      > saw
                      > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                      > Good
                      > > luck on our recovery.
                      > >
                      > > Larry
                      > >
                      > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                      > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
                      > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
                      > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                      last
                      > I
                      > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                      > > >
                      > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                      > > >
                      > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                      left
                      > on
                      > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
                      > the
                      > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                      > > appendix.
                      > > >
                      > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                      > > poisoning
                      > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                      > ever
                      > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                      > > >
                      > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                      date.
                      > As
                      > > I
                      > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                      > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                      > it'll
                      > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                      > > physically
                      > > > produce books.
                      > > >
                      > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
                      to
                      > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
                      > for
                      > > > Xmas deliveries.
                      > > >
                      > > > All best,
                      > > >
                      > > > --jake
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      > > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Stephen Recker
                      I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move fast and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can t imagine that would
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move fast
                        and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can't
                        imagine that would be a big money maker. Perhaps offering them on a
                        print-on-demand basis?

                        Stephen

                        On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 09:25 AM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

                        > You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                        > making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
                        > costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                        > shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
                        > of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
                        > they would like after the initial sets are sold.
                        >
                        > Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?
                        >
                      • Joseph Pierro
                        Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they re BOTH of the first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me

                          How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular plate.

                          I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.

                          As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the Gettysburg VC.


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                          Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                          maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the earlier
                          one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                          version?

                          The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is the
                          crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of the
                          atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two versions
                          by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you are
                          correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using high
                          res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                          students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.

                          The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                          cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                          set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                          include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                          print an order as well as any marketing expenses.

                          Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?

                          Larry


                          --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                          <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                          publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The information
                          contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                          any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                          bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL Atlas
                          plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                          >
                          > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good one.
                          About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at Gettysburg
                          did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin did
                          three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                          day).
                          >
                          > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                          woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do is
                          repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                          >
                          > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                          image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                          scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                          sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                          > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          >
                          > Jake,
                          >
                          > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                          >
                          > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                          > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                          would
                          > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                          > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                          >
                          > Larry
                          >
                          > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                          > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                          > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                          set
                          > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                          > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                          > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                          > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                          > >
                          > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                          of
                          > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                          > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                          > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                          access
                          > to them at all.
                          > >
                          > > Best,
                          > >
                          > > --j
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ----- Original Message ----
                          > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                          > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          > >
                          > > Jake,
                          > >
                          > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                          > maps
                          > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                          pls
                          > > let me know.
                          > >
                          > > Larry
                          > >
                          > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                          > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                          > of
                          > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                          > > >
                          > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                          as
                          > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                          > > >
                          > > > --j
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ----- Original Message ----
                          > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                          > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                          > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                          > > >
                          > > > Jake,
                          > > >
                          > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                          will
                          > be
                          > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                          > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                          > > > wonderful.
                          > > >
                          > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                          first
                          > > saw
                          > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                          > > Good
                          > > > luck on our recovery.
                          > > >
                          > > > Larry
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                          > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                          the
                          > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                          from
                          > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                          > last
                          > > I
                          > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                          > > > >
                          > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                          > left
                          > > on
                          > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                          to
                          > > the
                          > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                          > > > appendix.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                          > > > poisoning
                          > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                          > > ever
                          > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                          > date.
                          > > As
                          > > > I
                          > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                          > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                          > > it'll
                          > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                          > > > physically
                          > > > > produce books.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                          going
                          > to
                          > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                          time
                          > > for
                          > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > All best,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --jake
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          > http://mail. yahoo.com
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >




                          __________________________________________________
                          Do You Yahoo!?
                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                          http://mail.yahoo.com

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Joseph Pierro
                          Yes, the full Bachelder set of 28 maps (37 x 27 1/2 ) was reprinted in color by Morningside Books of Dayton, Ohio, some years ago. The item still appears on
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yes, the full Bachelder set of 28 maps (37" x 27 1/2") was reprinted in color by Morningside Books of Dayton, Ohio, some years ago. The item still appears on their website (morningsidebooksDOTcom).

                            What would it cost to make a reproducable image of each Carman map? What is the production cost to print them? What's the market demand for the map sets? I couldn't begin to answer any of these questions. (Fairly or not, Gettysburg exists on an order of magnitude apart from any other CW battle in terms of marketplace interest.)

                            My sense, though, is that if any non profit were to try and tackle such a project, they'd need to apply for a grant from some organization or foundation to cover the costs. I'd be REALLY surprised if the economics of such an undertaking would allow such a project to break even, let alone run in the black.

                            --jake


                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:25:45 AM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                            Gerry,

                            You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                            making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if those
                            costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                            shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an investment
                            of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be something
                            they would like after the initial sets are sold.

                            Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?

                            Larry

                            --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@. ..>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Larry;
                            >
                            > That might be a good project for the Save Historic Antietam
                            > Foundation, of which Dr Tom Clemens is president.
                            >
                            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            >
                            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "eighth_conn_ inf" <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                            > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                            > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27 AM
                            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            >
                            >
                            > Jake,
                            >
                            > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                            >
                            > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                            > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                            > would
                            > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                            > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                            >
                            > Larry
                            >
                            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                            > <joseph_pierro@ > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                            > > Books
                            > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                            > set
                            > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                            > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                            > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                            > recent
                            > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                            > >
                            > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                            > > Library of
                            > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                            > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                            > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                            > access
                            > to them at all.
                            > >
                            > > Best,
                            > >
                            > > --j
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message ----
                            > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                            > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            > >
                            > > Jake,
                            > >
                            > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                            > > Carmen-Cope
                            > maps
                            > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                            > > pls
                            > > let me know.
                            > >
                            > > Larry
                            > >
                            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                            > > > sort
                            > of
                            > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                            > > >
                            > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                            > > > as
                            > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                            > > >
                            > > > --j
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ----- Original Message ----
                            > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                            > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                            > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                            > > >
                            > > > Jake,
                            > > >
                            > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                            > > > will
                            > be
                            > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                            > > > late,
                            > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                            > > > wonderful.
                            > > >
                            > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                            > > > first
                            > > saw
                            > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                            > > > done.
                            > > Good
                            > > > luck on our recovery.
                            > > >
                            > > > Larry
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                            > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                            > > > > the
                            > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                            > > > > from
                            > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                            > last
                            > > I
                            > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                            > > > >
                            > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                            > left
                            > > on
                            > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                            > > > > to
                            > > the
                            > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                            > > > appendix.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                            > > > poisoning
                            > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                            > > > > hospital
                            > > ever
                            > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                            > date.
                            > > As
                            > > > I
                            > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                            > > > > 100%
                            > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                            > > > > done,
                            > > it'll
                            > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                            > > > physically
                            > > > > produce books.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                            > > > > going
                            > to
                            > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                            > > > > time
                            > > for
                            > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > All best,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --jake
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                            > > > around
                            > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                            > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >




                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            http://mail.yahoo.com

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • G E Mayers
                            Joe; The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Joe;

                              The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


                              > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                              > scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                              > first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                              > edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                              > edition--is beyond me
                              >
                              > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                              > Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                              > justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                              > that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                              > position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                              > edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                              > of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                              > that was left off of a particular plate.
                              >
                              > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                              > say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                              > appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                              > edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                              >
                              > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                              > (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                              > interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                              > Gettysburg VC.
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message ----
                              > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >
                              > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                              > Carman's
                              > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                              > earlier
                              > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                              > version?
                              >
                              > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                              > is the
                              > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                              > of the
                              > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                              > versions
                              > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                              > you are
                              > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                              > high
                              > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                              > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                              >
                              > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                              > the
                              > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                              > $250 a
                              > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                              > include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                              > would
                              > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                              >
                              > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                              >
                              > Larry
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                              > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                              > information
                              > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                              > say,
                              > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                              > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                              > Atlas
                              > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                              >>
                              >> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                              >> one.
                              > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                              > Gettysburg
                              > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                              > Desjardin did
                              > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                              > each
                              > day).
                              >>
                              >> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                              >> you
                              > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                              > do is
                              > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                              >>
                              >> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                              > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                              > high-res
                              > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                              > on a
                              > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ----- Original Message ----
                              >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                              >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                              >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >>
                              >> Jake,
                              >>
                              >> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                              >>
                              >> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make
                              >> a
                              >> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                              > would
                              >> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                              >> being
                              >> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                              >>
                              >> Larry
                              >>
                              >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >> >
                              >> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                              >> > Books
                              >> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                              >> full
                              > set
                              >> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                              >> full
                              >> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                              >> (they
                              >> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                              >> recent
                              >> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                              >> >
                              >> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                              >> > Library
                              > of
                              >> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                              >> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                              >> digital
                              >> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                              > access
                              >> to them at all.
                              >> >
                              >> > Best,
                              >> >
                              >> > --j
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > ----- Original Message ----
                              >> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                              >> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              >> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                              >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >> >
                              >> > Jake,
                              >> >
                              >> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                              >> > Carmen-Cope
                              >> maps
                              >> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                              >> > help,
                              > pls
                              >> > let me know.
                              >> >
                              >> > Larry
                              >> >
                              >> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                              >> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                              >> > > sort
                              >> of
                              >> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                              >> > >
                              >> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                              >> > > might
                              > as
                              >> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                              >> > >
                              >> > > --j
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > > ----- Original Message ----
                              >> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                              >> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                              >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Jake,
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                              >> > > you
                              > will
                              >> be
                              >> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                              >> > > late,
                              >> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will
                              >> > > be
                              >> > > wonderful.
                              >> > >
                              >> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                              > first
                              >> > saw
                              >> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                              >> > > done.
                              >> > Good
                              >> > > luck on our recovery.
                              >> > >
                              >> > > Larry
                              >> > >
                              >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                              >> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                              >> > > > on
                              > the
                              >> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                              >> > > > coming
                              > from
                              >> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                              >> > > > when
                              >> last
                              >> > I
                              >> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                              >> > > > work
                              >> left
                              >> > on
                              >> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to
                              >> > > > go
                              > to
                              >> > the
                              >> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                              >> > > > the
                              >> > > appendix.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                              >> > > > food
                              >> > > poisoning
                              >> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                              >> > > > hospital
                              >> > ever
                              >> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                              >> > > > release
                              >> date.
                              >> > As
                              >> > > I
                              >> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                              >> > > > 100%
                              >> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                              >> > > > done,
                              >> > it'll
                              >> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                              >> > > > then
                              >> > > physically
                              >> > > > produce books.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                              > going
                              >> to
                              >> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                              >> > > > in
                              > time
                              >> > for
                              >> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > All best,
                              >> > > >
                              >> > > > --jake
                              >> > > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > >
                              >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              >> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                              >> > > around
                              >> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              >> > >
                              >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >> > >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              >> > Do You Yahoo!?
                              >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                              >> > around
                              >> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                              >> >
                              >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >> >
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                              >> Do You Yahoo!?
                              >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              > http://mail.yahoo.com
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                            • Joseph Pierro
                              Gerry: We might be talking past each other. The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that book. The maps themselves predate that, but their
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Gerry:

                                We might be talking past each other.

                                The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first appearance bound in book form is 1904.

                                A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.

                                Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As anyone on this board who has every published anything knows, one is constantly tweaking the final product.)

                                When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.

                                --jake


                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                                Joe;

                                The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                                > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                                > scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                                > first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                                > edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                                > edition--is beyond me
                                >
                                > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                > Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                                > justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                                > that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                                > position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                                > edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                                > of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                                > that was left off of a particular plate.
                                >
                                > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                                > say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                                > appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                                > edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                                >
                                > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                > (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                > interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                > Gettysburg VC.
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message ----
                                > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
                                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                >
                                > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                                > Carman's
                                > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                > earlier
                                > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                > version?
                                >
                                > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                                > is the
                                > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                                > of the
                                > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                > versions
                                > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                                > you are
                                > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                                > high
                                > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                                > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                >
                                > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                                > the
                                > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                                > $250 a
                                > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                > include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                                > would
                                > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                >
                                > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                >
                                > Larry
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                                > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                > information
                                > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                                > say,
                                > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                                > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                > Atlas
                                > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                >>
                                >> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                >> one.
                                > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                > Gettysburg
                                > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                                > Desjardin did
                                > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                                > each
                                > day).
                                >>
                                >> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                                >> you
                                > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                                > do is
                                > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                >>
                                >> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                                > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                                > high-res
                                > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                                > on a
                                > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ----- Original Message ----
                                >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                                >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                >>
                                >> Jake,
                                >>
                                >> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                >>
                                >> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make
                                >> a
                                >> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                > would
                                >> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                                >> being
                                >> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                >>
                                >> Larry
                                >>
                                >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                >> >
                                >> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                >> > Books
                                >> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                                >> full
                                > set
                                >> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                                >> full
                                >> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                                >> (they
                                >> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                >> recent
                                >> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                >> >
                                >> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                >> > Library
                                > of
                                >> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                >> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                                >> digital
                                >> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                > access
                                >> to them at all.
                                >> >
                                >> > Best,
                                >> >
                                >> > --j
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> > ----- Original Message ----
                                >> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                >> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                >> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                >> >
                                >> > Jake,
                                >> >
                                >> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                                >> > Carmen-Cope
                                >> maps
                                >> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                                >> > help,
                                > pls
                                >> > let me know.
                                >> >
                                >> > Larry
                                >> >
                                >> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                >> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                                >> > > sort
                                >> of
                                >> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                >> > >
                                >> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                                >> > > might
                                > as
                                >> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                >> > >
                                >> > > --j
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > > ----- Original Message ----
                                >> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                >> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                >> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                >> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Jake,
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                                >> > > you
                                > will
                                >> be
                                >> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                >> > > late,
                                >> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will
                                >> > > be
                                >> > > wonderful.
                                >> > >
                                >> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                                > first
                                >> > saw
                                >> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                >> > > done.
                                >> > Good
                                >> > > luck on our recovery.
                                >> > >
                                >> > > Larry
                                >> > >
                                >> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                >> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                                >> > > > on
                                > the
                                >> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                                >> > > > coming
                                > from
                                >> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                                >> > > > when
                                >> last
                                >> > I
                                >> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                                >> > > > work
                                >> left
                                >> > on
                                >> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to
                                >> > > > go
                                > to
                                >> > the
                                >> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                                >> > > > the
                                >> > > appendix.
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                                >> > > > food
                                >> > > poisoning
                                >> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                >> > > > hospital
                                >> > ever
                                >> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                                >> > > > release
                                >> date.
                                >> > As
                                >> > > I
                                >> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                                >> > > > 100%
                                >> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                >> > > > done,
                                >> > it'll
                                >> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                                >> > > > then
                                >> > > physically
                                >> > > > produce books.
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                                > going
                                >> to
                                >> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                                >> > > > in
                                > time
                                >> > for
                                >> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > All best,
                                >> > > >
                                >> > > > --jake
                                >> > > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > >
                                >> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                >> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                >> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                >> > > around
                                >> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                >> > >
                                >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >> > >
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                >> > Do You Yahoo!?
                                >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                >> > around
                                >> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                >> >
                                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >> >
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                >> Do You Yahoo!?
                                >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                                >>
                                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >




                                __________________________________________________
                                Do You Yahoo!?
                                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                http://mail.yahoo.com

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • eighth_conn_inf
                                Stephen, Sorry I didn t know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay? If yes, under what category? Do you have another set for sale? Larry F. ...
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Stephen,

                                  Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
                                  If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?

                                  Larry F.


                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I just sold my set of Gettysburg Bachelder maps. They did not move
                                  fast
                                  > and I sold them for a LOT less than the $250 retail price. I can't
                                  > imagine that would be a big money maker. Perhaps offering them on a
                                  > print-on-demand basis?
                                  >
                                  > Stephen
                                  >
                                  > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 09:25 AM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > You have a good suggestion. I'm sure SHAF would be concerned about
                                  > > making a large investment in printing costs without knowing if
                                  those
                                  > > costs would be recouped. Certainly the sets of maps could sit on a
                                  > > shelf since they would not become obsolete but having an
                                  investment
                                  > > of several thousands of dollars sitting idle might not be
                                  something
                                  > > they would like after the initial sets are sold.
                                  > >
                                  > > Is there a set of printed Bachelder maps available?
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Ok. Thanks for the clarification. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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                                    Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 1:13 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update


                                    > Gerry:
                                    >
                                    > We might be talking past each other.
                                    >
                                    > The 1904 edition of the ATLAS is the original edition of that
                                    > book. The maps themselves predate that, but their first
                                    > appearance bound in book form is 1904.
                                    >
                                    > A revised version of the ATLAS was then issued in 1908.
                                    >
                                    > Are their revisions between the original Carman-Cope maps from
                                    > the 1890s and what was printed and bound in 1904? Yes. (As
                                    > anyone on this board who has every published anything knows,
                                    > one is constantly tweaking the final product.)
                                    >
                                    > When I talk about originals and revisions, however, I'm only
                                    > speaking of the ATLAS itself as a bound book, not the
                                    > individual map plates inside. 1904 isn't the date of the first
                                    > maps, but it's the first date of a bound BOOK of maps.
                                    >
                                    > --jake
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message ----
                                    > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:57:08 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                    >
                                    > Joe;
                                    >
                                    > The 1904 Carman was the Cope-Carman revision, IIRC.
                                    >
                                    > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    >
                                    > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                    > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                    > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction
                                    > from
                                    > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                                    > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                    > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:39 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                    >
                                    >> Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate
                                    >> scans of the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the
                                    >> first (1904) edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same
                                    >> edition twice--instead of digitizing one set of each
                                    >> edition--is beyond me
                                    >>
                                    >> How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                    >> Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to
                                    >> justify reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of
                                    >> that what you will. I can say that in some instances the
                                    >> position of a given regiment is substantively changed from one
                                    >> edition to the next, while in many others it's simply a matter
                                    >> of correcting a typo on one of the maps or adding in a label
                                    >> that was left off of a particular plate.
                                    >>
                                    >> I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't
                                    >> say which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info
                                    >> appears somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first
                                    >> edition; if 1908, it's the 2d.
                                    >>
                                    >> As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                    >> (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                    >> interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                    >> Gettysburg VC.
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> ----- Original Message ----
                                    >> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@yahoo. com>
                                    >> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                    >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                    >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                    >>
                                    >> Are there substantive changes between the two versions of
                                    >> Carman's
                                    >> maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                    >> earlier
                                    >> one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                    >> version?
                                    >>
                                    >> The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas
                                    >> is the
                                    >> crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings
                                    >> of the
                                    >> atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                    >> versions
                                    >> by different publishers and they are noticably different. So
                                    >> you are
                                    >> correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals
                                    >> using
                                    >> high
                                    >> res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most
                                    >> serious
                                    >> students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                    >>
                                    >> The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can
                                    >> the
                                    >> cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at
                                    >> $250 a
                                    >> set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                    >> include the minimum number a printer would require before it
                                    >> would
                                    >> print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                    >>
                                    >> Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                    >>
                                    >> Larry
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                    >> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>> That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle,
                                    >>> my
                                    >> publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                    >> information
                                    >> contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to,
                                    >> say,
                                    >> any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find
                                    >> in
                                    >> bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                    >> Atlas
                                    >> plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                    >>> one.
                                    >> About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                    >> Gettysburg
                                    >> did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom
                                    >> Desjardin did
                                    >> three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for
                                    >> each
                                    >> day).
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then
                                    >>> you
                                    >> woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to
                                    >> do is
                                    >> repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing
                                    >>> the
                                    >> image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates
                                    >> high-res
                                    >> scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even
                                    >> on a
                                    >> sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> ----- Original Message ----
                                    >>> From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                                    >>> To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                    >>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                    >>> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Jake,
                                    >>>
                                    >>> I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to
                                    >>> make
                                    >>> a
                                    >>> profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization?
                                    >>> I
                                    >> would
                                    >>> buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as
                                    >>> being
                                    >>> printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Larry
                                    >>>
                                    >>> --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                    >>> <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                    >>> > Books
                                    >>> isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the
                                    >>> full
                                    >> set
                                    >>> of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in
                                    >>> full
                                    >>> color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose
                                    >>> (they
                                    >>> shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                    >>> recent
                                    >>> years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                    >>> > Library
                                    >> of
                                    >>> Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan
                                    >>> the
                                    >>> second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant
                                    >>> digital
                                    >>> database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not
                                    >>> having
                                    >> access
                                    >>> to them at all.
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Best,
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > --j
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > ----- Original Message ----
                                    >>> > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                    >>> > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                    >>> > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                    >>> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Jake,
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the
                                    >>> > Carmen-Cope
                                    >>> maps
                                    >>> > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to
                                    >>> > help,
                                    >> pls
                                    >>> > let me know.
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > Larry
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                    >>> > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't
                                    >>> > > some
                                    >>> > > sort
                                    >>> of
                                    >>> > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it
                                    >>> > > might
                                    >> as
                                    >>> > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > --j
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > ----- Original Message ----
                                    >>> > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                    >>> > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                    >>> > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                    >>> > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > Jake,
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that
                                    >>> > > you
                                    >> will
                                    >>> be
                                    >>> > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                    >>> > > late,
                                    >>> > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened
                                    >>> > > will
                                    >>> > > be
                                    >>> > > wonderful.
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when
                                    >>> > > I
                                    >> first
                                    >>> > saw
                                    >>> > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                    >>> > > done.
                                    >>> > Good
                                    >>> > > luck on our recovery.
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > Larry
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                    >>> > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats)
                                    >>> > > > on
                                    >> the
                                    >>> > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was
                                    >>> > > > coming
                                    >> from
                                    >>> > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book,
                                    >>> > > > when
                                    >>> last
                                    >>> > I
                                    >>> > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of
                                    >>> > > > work
                                    >>> left
                                    >>> > on
                                    >>> > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready
                                    >>> > > > to
                                    >>> > > > go
                                    >> to
                                    >>> > the
                                    >>> > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with
                                    >>> > > > the
                                    >>> > > appendix.
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with
                                    >>> > > > food
                                    >>> > > poisoning
                                    >>> > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                    >>> > > > hospital
                                    >>> > ever
                                    >>> > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new
                                    >>> > > > release
                                    >>> date.
                                    >>> > As
                                    >>> > > I
                                    >>> > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I
                                    >>> > > > was
                                    >>> > > > 100%
                                    >>> > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                    >>> > > > done,
                                    >>> > it'll
                                    >>> > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and
                                    >>> > > > then
                                    >>> > > physically
                                    >>> > > > produce books.
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December.
                                    >>> > > > I'm
                                    >> going
                                    >>> to
                                    >>> > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship
                                    >>> > > > in
                                    >> time
                                    >>> > for
                                    >>> > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > All best,
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > > > --jake
                                    >>> > > >
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                    >>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    >>> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                    >>> > > around
                                    >>> > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>> > >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                    >>> > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    >>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                    >>> > around
                                    >>> > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>> >
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                    >>> Do You Yahoo!?
                                    >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                    >>> around
                                    >>> http://mail. yahoo.com
                                    >>>
                                    >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                    >> Do You Yahoo!?
                                    >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    >> http://mail. yahoo.com
                                    >>
                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > __________________________________________________
                                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • eighth_conn_inf
                                    I ve only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me. ... eBay?
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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                                      I've only found one source on line--Morningside--at $250!! Poor me.

                                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Larry,
                                      >
                                      > Sorry. All gone. No more.
                                      >
                                      > Stephen
                                      >
                                      > On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on
                                      eBay?
                                      > > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Stephen Recker
                                      Larry, Sorry. All gone. No more. Stephen
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
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                                        Larry,

                                        Sorry. All gone. No more.

                                        Stephen

                                        On Monday, October 29, 2007, at 12:38 PM, eighth_conn_inf wrote:

                                        > Sorry I didn't know you had a set for sale--did you put them on eBay?
                                        > If "yes," under what category? Do you have another set for sale?
                                        >
                                      • Brian Richardson
                                        There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves have a 1904 date. Brian
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Oct 29, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
                                          accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
                                          have a 1904 date.

                                          Brian Richardson


                                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                          <joseph_pierro@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
                                          the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
                                          edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
                                          instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
                                          >
                                          > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                          Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
                                          reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
                                          will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
                                          regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
                                          in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
                                          the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
                                          plate.
                                          >
                                          > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
                                          which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
                                          somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
                                          it's the 2d.
                                          >
                                          > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                          (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                          interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                          Gettysburg VC.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@...>
                                          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                          >
                                          > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                                          > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                          earlier
                                          > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                          > version?
                                          >
                                          > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
                                          the
                                          > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
                                          the
                                          > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                          versions
                                          > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
                                          are
                                          > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                                          high
                                          > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                                          > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                          >
                                          > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                                          > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                                          > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                          > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                                          > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                          >
                                          > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                          >
                                          > Larry
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                          > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                                          > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                          information
                                          > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                                          > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                                          > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                          Atlas
                                          > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                          > >
                                          > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                          one.
                                          > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                          Gettysburg
                                          > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
                                          did
                                          > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                                          > day).
                                          > >
                                          > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                                          > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
                                          is
                                          > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                          > >
                                          > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                                          > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                                          > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                                          > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                          > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                          > >
                                          > > Jake,
                                          > >
                                          > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                          > >
                                          > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                          > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                          > would
                                          > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                          > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                          > >
                                          > > Larry
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                          > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                          Books
                                          > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                          > set
                                          > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                          > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                          > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                          recent
                                          > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                          Library
                                          > of
                                          > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                          > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                          > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                          > access
                                          > > to them at all.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Best,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --j
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                          > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                          > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Jake,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
                                          Cope
                                          > > maps
                                          > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                                          > pls
                                          > > > let me know.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Larry
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                          > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                                          sort
                                          > > of
                                          > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                                          > as
                                          > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --j
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                          > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                          > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                          > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jake,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                                          > will
                                          > > be
                                          > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                          late,
                                          > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                          > > > > wonderful.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                                          > first
                                          > > > saw
                                          > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                          done.
                                          > > > Good
                                          > > > > luck on our recovery.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Larry
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                          > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                                          > the
                                          > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                                          > from
                                          > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                          > > last
                                          > > > I
                                          > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                          > > left
                                          > > > on
                                          > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                                          > to
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                          > > > > appendix.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                          > > > > poisoning
                                          > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                          hospital
                                          > > > ever
                                          > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                          > > date.
                                          > > > As
                                          > > > > I
                                          > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                                          100%
                                          > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                          done,
                                          > > > it'll
                                          > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                          > > > > physically
                                          > > > > > produce books.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                                          > going
                                          > > to
                                          > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                                          > time
                                          > > > for
                                          > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > All best,
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --jake
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                          > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                          around
                                          > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                          > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                          > > >
                                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > __________________________________________________
                                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                                          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • Joseph Pierro
                                          If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they re from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas. Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I m
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Oct 30, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            If the maps on that disc are dated 1904, then they're from the original edition of the Antietam Atlas.

                                            Given the fact that they are digitized on a CD, I'm willing to bet that the CD was made from the same set of scans that the LoC has now made available on its website.


                                            ----- Original Message ----
                                            From: Brian Richardson <BrianSRich@...>
                                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:53:07 AM
                                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update

                                            There seems to be no copyright info in the documentation that
                                            accompanies the map CD sold in the bookstore, but the maps themselves
                                            have a 1904 date.

                                            Brian Richardson

                                            --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                            <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Yes, the LoC version is a bit odd. There are TWO separate scans of
                                            the Atlas on the irwebsite, but they're BOTH of the first (1904)
                                            edition of the Atlas. Why they digitized the same edition twice--
                                            instead of digitizing one set of each edition--is beyond me
                                            >
                                            > How substantive are the changes? That's hard to quantify--but
                                            Carman and co. felt that enough alterations had been made to justify
                                            reissuing the entire Atlas four years later. Make of that what you
                                            will. I can say that in some instances the position of a given
                                            regiment is substantively changed from one edition to the next, while
                                            in many others it's simply a matter of correcting a typo on one of
                                            the maps or adding in a label that was left off of a particular
                                            plate.
                                            >
                                            > I don't have a copy of the Antietam bookstore CD, so I can't say
                                            which issue it is. Presumably, the original copyright info appears
                                            somewhere on the disc. If it's 1904, it's the first edition; if 1908,
                                            it's the 2d.
                                            >
                                            > As for Desjardin's Gettysburg maps, the last time I was there
                                            (about a year or two ago) they were still for sale. If you're
                                            interested, I'd contact the Eastern National bookshop at the
                                            Gettysburg VC.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message ----
                                            > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@...>
                                            > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 10:19:56 AM
                                            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                            >
                                            > Are there substantive changes between the two versions of Carman's
                                            > maps? I didn't realize the version on the LOC website is the
                                            earlier
                                            > one. Is the CD available in the Antietam bookstore the earlier
                                            > version?
                                            >
                                            > The problem for me with the 20% smaller copies of the OR Atlas is
                                            the
                                            > crease in the pages for the larger maps. Also, some printings of
                                            the
                                            > atlas vary in quality re the colors, details,etc. I have two
                                            versions
                                            > by different publishers and they are noticably different. So you
                                            are
                                            > correct, to make full-size copies of the Carman originals using
                                            high
                                            > res is needed. Regiment locations are critical for most serious
                                            > students of the battle so they must be very clear IMO.
                                            >
                                            > The problem with a non profit like SHAF doing the maps is can the
                                            > cost of the printing be recovered? How many could be sold at $250 a
                                            > set to recoup printing costs? Of course the calculation has to
                                            > include the minimum number a printer would require before it would
                                            > print an order as well as any marketing expenses.
                                            >
                                            > Are the Gettysburg Desjardin maps still available?
                                            >
                                            > Larry
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                            > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > That's the key to those maps (and why, after much struggle, my
                                            > publishers decided we couldn't use them in my book). The
                                            information
                                            > contained on them is so dense that if you shrink them down to, say,
                                            > any smaller than the modern version of the OR Atlas you find in
                                            > bookstores today (which is about 20% smaller than the ORIGINAL
                                            Atlas
                                            > plates) you can't make out the individual regiments.
                                            > >
                                            > > Your idea for a non-profit to undertake the project is a good
                                            one.
                                            > About ten years ago, the Friends of the National Parks at
                                            Gettysburg
                                            > did something similar, and funded a project whereby Tom Desjardin
                                            did
                                            > three new topo and troop position maps of that battle (one for each
                                            > day).
                                            > >
                                            > > Admittedly, the Carman Atlas is 14 maps, not three, but then you
                                            > woulnd't have any cartographic costs involved. All you need to do
                                            is
                                            > repoduce an already extant set of maps.
                                            > >
                                            > > From what I understand, the real cost comes from producing the
                                            > image in a reproducable format. If the LoC ever creates high-res
                                            > scans of the 2d edition, printing copies from the scans--even on a
                                            > sturdy, laminate paper--would be very cheap.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ----- Original Message ----
                                            > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                            > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:27:58 AM
                                            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                            > >
                                            > > Jake,
                                            > >
                                            > > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                            > >
                                            > > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                            > > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                            > would
                                            > > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                            > > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                            > >
                                            > > Larry
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                            > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside
                                            Books
                                            > > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                            > set
                                            > > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                            > > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                            > > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in
                                            recent
                                            > > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the
                                            Library
                                            > of
                                            > > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                            > > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                            > > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                            > access
                                            > > to them at all.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Best,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --j
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                            > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                            > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:46:47 PM
                                            > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Jake,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-
                                            Cope
                                            > > maps
                                            > > > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help,
                                            > pls
                                            > > > let me know.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Larry
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Joseph Pierro
                                            > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some
                                            sort
                                            > > of
                                            > > > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might
                                            > as
                                            > > > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --j
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > ----- Original Message ----
                                            > > > > From: eighth_conn_ inf <eighth_conn_ inf@>
                                            > > > > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                            > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                            > > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Jake,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you
                                            > will
                                            > > be
                                            > > > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be
                                            late,
                                            > > > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                            > > > > wonderful.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I
                                            > first
                                            > > > saw
                                            > > > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it
                                            done.
                                            > > > Good
                                            > > > > luck on our recovery.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Larry
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                            > > > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on
                                            > the
                                            > > > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming
                                            > from
                                            > > > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                            > > last
                                            > > > I
                                            > > > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                            > > left
                                            > > > on
                                            > > > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go
                                            > to
                                            > > > the
                                            > > > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                            > > > > appendix.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                            > > > > poisoning
                                            > > > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the
                                            hospital
                                            > > > ever
                                            > > > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                            > > date.
                                            > > > As
                                            > > > > I
                                            > > > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was
                                            100%
                                            > > > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM
                                            done,
                                            > > > it'll
                                            > > > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                            > > > > physically
                                            > > > > > produce books.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm
                                            > going
                                            > > to
                                            > > > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in
                                            > time
                                            > > > for
                                            > > > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > All best,
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --jake
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                            > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                            > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                            around
                                            > > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                            > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                            > > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                            > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                            > > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                            > >
                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                            > http://mail. yahoo.com
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >




                                            __________________________________________________
                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                            http://mail.yahoo.com

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • eighth_conn_inf
                                            Jake, Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@hotmail.com with a question re your pub date moved to January 2008? Thank you, Larry Freiheit ... maps ... of
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Dec 17, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Jake,

                                              Could you contact me with a PM at killsour@... with a
                                              question re your pub date moved to January 2008?

                                              Thank you,

                                              Larry Freiheit


                                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "eighth_conn_inf"
                                              <eighth_conn_inf@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Jake,
                                              >
                                              > We have to keep you going so you can next tackle the Carmen-Cope
                                              maps
                                              > to supplement your book! If there is anything I can do to help, pls
                                              > let me know.
                                              >
                                              > Larry
                                              >
                                              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                              > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks, Larry! I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort
                                              of
                                              > pharonic curse on this manuscript.
                                              > >
                                              > > On the other hand, since I have to die of something, it might as
                                              > well be as the last casualty of Antietam. . . . :)
                                              > >
                                              > > --j
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ----- Original Message ----
                                              > > From: eighth_conn_inf <eighth_conn_inf@>
                                              > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:23:17 PM
                                              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Carman update
                                              > >
                                              > > Jake,
                                              > >
                                              > > Never ask what can happen next! It is good to hear that you will
                                              be
                                              > > OK and are recovering well. Even though the book will be late,
                                              > > getting it out as quickly as that after what happened will be
                                              > > wonderful.
                                              > >
                                              > > I've had an order in with Amazon for several months when I first
                                              > saw
                                              > > it there and look forward to receiving it when you get it done.
                                              > Good
                                              > > luck on our recovery.
                                              > >
                                              > > Larry
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "joseph_pierro"
                                              > > <joseph_pierro@ ...> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Hey, everyone! I've gotten a few queries (and congrats) on the
                                              > > > release of the Carman ms. It's a TAD premature.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I'm not sure where the late Oct. date in Amazon was coming from
                                              > > > (probably some database wasn;t updated), but the book, when
                                              last
                                              > I
                                              > > > knew, was going to be a mid-Nov. release.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > And there's been a small snag since. . . .
                                              > > >
                                              > > > At the beginning of the month, I had about 4-5 days of work
                                              left
                                              > on
                                              > > > the index in order to have the ms. COMPLETE and ready to go to
                                              > the
                                              > > > printer. Just then, however, I developed a problem with the
                                              > > appendix.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Not the book's. My own. I had been misdiagnosed with food
                                              > > poisoning
                                              > > > on the 3d, and by the 6th it burst. I've been in the hospital
                                              > ever
                                              > > > since (I only just returned home an hour ago).
                                              > > >
                                              > > > It's too soon for me to make a firm guess on a new release
                                              date.
                                              > As
                                              > > I
                                              > > > said, I had about 4-5 days of work left to do when I was 100%
                                              > > > healthy, and I'm nowhere near that now. Then, once I AM done,
                                              > it'll
                                              > > > take the publisher 3-4 weeks to typeset the index and then
                                              > > physically
                                              > > > produce books.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I'd guess it'll be ready by the 2d week of December. I'm going
                                              to
                                              > > > make every possible effort to make sure the books ship in time
                                              > for
                                              > > > Xmas deliveries.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > All best,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --jake
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > __________________________________________________
                                              > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                              > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • eighth_conn_inf
                                              Tom, I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version? Larry ... large ... sell
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Dec 31, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Tom,

                                                I know a photographer who might be able to help. Do you have any
                                                specifics on the negatives you have? Are they the 1908 version?

                                                Larry


                                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Larry,
                                                > Save Historic Antietam Foundation at one time considered printing
                                                > copies for sale, but the numbers did not work out. To print them
                                                large
                                                > enough to be legible is pretty pricey and we didn't think we could
                                                sell
                                                > enough to make it worthwhile. Given the access of the LOC site, it
                                                is
                                                > less likely now. If you have any ideas about production, we have
                                                8x10
                                                > photo negatives of all fourteen maps.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                                > Professor of History
                                                > Hagerstown Community College
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > >>> "eighth_conn_inf" <eighth_conn_inf@...> 10/29/2007 8:27 AM
                                                > >>>
                                                > Jake,
                                                >
                                                > I posted a comment on the LOC website re the revised maps.
                                                >
                                                > Perhaps a good project for a group to undertake if not to make a
                                                > profit but to contribute funds to a non profit organization? I
                                                would
                                                > buy a set assuming it was complete and legible as well as being
                                                > printed on sturdy, plastic-coated paper.
                                                >
                                                > Larry
                                                >
                                                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Pierro
                                                > <joseph_pierro@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > You know, it's a REAL shame that Bob Younger at Morningside Books
                                                > isn't with us anymore. He managed to find a way to make the full
                                                set
                                                > of Bachelder maps from Gettysburg available (all 28 maps in full
                                                > color) for $250. Now, he just printed them flat and loose (they
                                                > shipped them boxed), but it's the closest thing I've seen in recent
                                                > years to a project like the Carman atlas.
                                                > >
                                                > > Meanwhile, I urge everyone to email the webmaster of the Library
                                                of
                                                > Congress's "American Memory" project and urge them to scan the
                                                > second, REVISED volume of Carman's atlas into their giant digital
                                                > database. It's not the PERFECT format, but it beats not having
                                                access
                                                > to them at all.
                                                > >
                                                > > Best,
                                                > >
                                                > > --j
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