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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: G.A.R. Reno Post #4 Hagerstown

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  • Stephen Recker
    I contacted the Masonic Temple here in Hagerstown to see if they have any photos of the Masonic Lodge Hall where Reno Post #4 met. No such luck. Here is the
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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      I contacted the Masonic Temple here in Hagerstown to see if they have
      any photos of the Masonic Lodge Hall where Reno Post #4 met. No such
      luck. Here is the reply:

      //////////////////////////////////////////////
      In 1822 Mt. Moriah Lodge (Chartered in 1802) joined with the City to
      build a
      combined Market House and Masonic Temple - the site of the present City
      Hall
      at Franklin and Potomac. Mt. Moriah Lodge ceased to exist in 1831.

      Friendship Lodge was Chartered on May 22, 1827 and met at homes in
      Hagerstown and Williamsport until they found a more permanent site in
      1858.
      From July 1858 to April 1, 1888 Friendship Lodge met in the "new
      building"
      at the southeast corner of Public Square. Friendship Lodge then built
      our
      current Temple in 1898 and dedicated it on March 8, 1899, where we have
      been
      ever since.

      We have no pictures of anything prior to the dedication of the current
      Masonic Temple on March 8, 1899.

      If you find anything like that I would be very interested in getting a
      copy.

      Terry Smith, Secretary
      Friendship Lodge No. 84

      ///////////////////////////////////////////////

      This does tell us that the hall was not available for lease until, at
      the earliest, March 1899.

      Stephen
    • Ronald Church
      I have heard it on several occasions that as French s lead brigade (Weber s) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped muskets. Is this true? Ron
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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        I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
        (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped muskets.
        Is this true?

        Ron Church
        Manchester Md
      • G E Mayers
        Ron, I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load but not cap... As a
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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          Ron,

          I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you
          are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load
          but not cap... As a reenactor who once did infantry, there were
          occasions were my unit was told to load but not cap....

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ronald Church" <rchurch@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:31 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Uncapped muskets?


          >I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
          >brigade
          > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
          > muskets.
          > Is this true?
          >
          > Ron Church
          > Manchester Md
          >
          >
        • Ronald Church
          Gerry, The reasoning for not capping in this instance is understandable 1. These were green troops who, at first hostile file, might pull trigger and break
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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            Gerry,

            The reasoning for not capping in this instance is understandable
            1. These were green troops who, at first hostile file, might pull
            trigger and break for the rear .... or the nearest cover, and
            2. Since their destination was on the left of Tyndale up near the
            VC they still had some ground to cover (or so they thought) before
            running into Confederates.

            So it makes sense that they might not have capped their weapons as they
            approached the Sunken Road, but I've not been able find confirmation of it.

            Ron Church

            G E Mayers wrote:
            > Ron,
            >
            > I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you
            > are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load
            > but not cap... As a reenactor who once did infantry, there were
            > occasions were my unit was told to load but not cap....
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Ronald Church" <rchurch@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:31 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Uncapped muskets?
            >
            >
            >
            >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
            >> brigade
            >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
            >> muskets.
            >> Is this true?
            >>
            >> Ron Church
            >> Manchester Md
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > .
            >
            >
          • joseph_pierro
            ... muskets. ... Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber s brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
              > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
              muskets.
              > Is this true?
              >
              > Ron Church
              > Manchester Md
              >
              Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
              brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
              doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

              It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
              remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
              have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
              discipline.

              --jake
            • richard@rcroker.com
              At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye s Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded.
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker. The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: joseph_pierro
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                muskets.
                > Is this true?
                >
                > Ron Church
                > Manchester Md
                >
                Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                discipline.

                --jake





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Scott Hann
                There s a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The men in the ranks reminded
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                  There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                  action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                  men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                  their muskets.



                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                  infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                  only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                  The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                  inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                  climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: joseph_pierro
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                  brigade
                  > > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                  > muskets.
                  > > Is this true?
                  > >
                  > > Ron Church
                  > > Manchester Md
                  > >
                  > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                  Weber's
                  > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but
                  he
                  > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                  >
                  > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                  > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons
                  to
                  > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                  > discipline.
                  >
                  > --jake
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Joseph Pierro
                  Again, that s not unheard of on either side. If the intention is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking force to cover the distance in
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                    Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)

                    I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull thud of it striking a ball and wadding).



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: "richard@..." <richard@...>
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                    At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker. The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: joseph_pierro
                    To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                    --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church <rchurch@... > wrote:
                    >
                    > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                    > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                    muskets.
                    > Is this true?
                    >
                    > Ron Church
                    > Manchester Md
                    >
                    Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                    brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                    doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                    It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                    remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                    have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                    discipline.

                    --jake

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Stephen Recker
                    The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O Rourke sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans. He did not take
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                      The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O'Rourke
                      sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans.
                      He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.

                      Stephen

                      On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

                      > There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                      > action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                      > men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                      > their muskets.
                    • Thomas Clemens
                      Patrick O Rorke s 146 NY, with a contingent of 5th NY Vols. 3-year men recently added. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                        Patrick O'Rorke's 146 NY, with a contingent of 5th NY Vols. 3-year men recently added.


                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College


                        >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 09/01/07 5:38 PM >>>
                        The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O'Rourke
                        sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans.
                        He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.

                        Stephen

                        On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

                        > There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                        > action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                        > men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                        > their muskets.
                      • G E Mayers
                        Dear Joseph, This ringing or pinging of the gun barrel is even heard today among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                          Dear Joseph,

                          This "ringing" or "pinging" of the gun barrel is even heard today
                          among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                          cleaned/unfouled barrel.

                          I would personally prefer to advance to battle loaded but not
                          capped, if I knew I was going to be using the bayonet.

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                          on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                          Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                          the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:47 AM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                          > Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention
                          > is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking
                          > force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the
                          > only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send
                          > them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined
                          > soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if
                          > he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)
                          >
                          > I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days
                          > fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our
                          > muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in
                          > the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the
                          > "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull
                          > thud of it striking a ball and wadding).
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: "richard@..." <richard@...>
                          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                          >
                          > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                          > infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                          > only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                          > The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                          > inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                          > climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: joseph_pierro
                          > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                          >
                          > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church
                          > <rchurch@... > wrote:
                          >>
                          >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                          >> brigade
                          >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                          > muskets.
                          >> Is this true?
                          >>
                          >> Ron Church
                          >> Manchester Md
                          >>
                          > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                          > Weber's
                          > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish),
                          > but he
                          > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                          >
                          > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others
                          > have
                          > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for
                          > weapons to
                          > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain
                          > fire
                          > discipline.
                          >
                          > --jake
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                          > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
                          > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                        • G E Mayers
                          Dear Stephen, IIRC O Rorke and his men did not have time for much anything else... basically switch right from column into battle line and charge! Yr. Obt.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                            Dear Stephen,

                            IIRC O'Rorke and his men did not have time for much anything
                            else... basically switch right from column into battle line and
                            charge!

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:38 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                            > The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry
                            > O'Rourke
                            > sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of
                            > texans.
                            > He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.
                            >
                            > Stephen
                            >
                            > On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:
                            >
                            >> There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going
                            >> into
                            >> action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons.
                            >> The
                            >> men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to
                            >> load
                            >> their muskets.
                            >
                            >
                          • Joseph Pierro
                            That, Gerry, is a universal feeling among infantrymen--hence the added precaution (form an officer s pov) of ordering the weapons to be carried unloaded. A
                            Message 13 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                              That, Gerry, is a universal feeling among infantrymen--hence the added precaution (form an officer's pov) of ordering the weapons to be carried unloaded. A solider is much more likely to disobey orders, halt his charge and cap a previously loaded weapon than he will to stop and run through the entire loading sequence.

                              I remember when I was in Basic Training many years ago and my platoon was receiving a block of instruction on the use of the bayonet, at the end of which the drill sergeant told us that if our bayonet ever became stuck in the enemy's ribcage, it could be dislodged by firing a round from our weapons.

                              To which I politely retorted that if my weapon still had a round in it, the bayonet would not be entering the ******* equation.

                              I imagine 19th century soldiers were as practical-minded as I--orders to the contrary notwithstanding. :)

                              --jake


                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, September 3, 2007 6:57:53 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                              Dear Joseph,

                              This "ringing" or "pinging" of the gun barrel is even heard today
                              among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                              cleaned/unfouled barrel.

                              I would personally prefer to advance to battle loaded but not
                              capped, if I knew I was going to be using the bayonet.

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                              Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:47 AM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                              > Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention
                              > is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking
                              > force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the
                              > only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send
                              > them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined
                              > soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if
                              > he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)
                              >
                              > I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days
                              > fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our
                              > muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in
                              > the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the
                              > "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull
                              > thud of it striking a ball and wadding).
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message ----
                              > From: "richard@rcroker. com" <richard@rcroker. com>
                              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              > Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                              >
                              > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                              > infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                              > only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                              > The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                              > inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                              > climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: joseph_pierro
                              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                              >
                              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church
                              > <rchurch@... > wrote:
                              >>
                              >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                              >> brigade
                              >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                              > muskets.
                              >> Is this true?
                              >>
                              >> Ron Church
                              >> Manchester Md
                              >>
                              > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                              > Weber's
                              > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish),
                              > but he
                              > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                              >
                              > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others
                              > have
                              > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for
                              > weapons to
                              > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain
                              > fire
                              > discipline.
                              >
                              > --jake
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                              > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                              > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
                              > http://search. yahoo.com/ search?fr= oni_on_mail& p=graduation+ gifts&cs= bz
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >





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